I just thought this would be an interesting science article to post a link for. What does everyone think about it?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/12/1209_041209_crows_apes.html

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Many believe the ancient legend of the phoenix really originates with the raven.
Try this if you live in a rural area and ravens and crows are around.
Build a small hot fire in a clearing surrounded by trees at night.
I have watched a raven show up when the fire has burned down to hot embers.
He'll get very close and after a time will raise his wings and hop around the fire.
Native Americans have this 'dance' as part of tradition stories.
When the raven flaps it's wings hot sparks will rise.
If the formula works as he rises to fly off he will stir the fire to appear as if he is being reborn from it.

> I just thought this would be an interesting science article to post a link
> for. What does everyone think about it?
>
> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/12/1209_041209_crows_apes.html
>

That's why Odin, the highest god from the Norse mythology, has two ravens on his shoulders, named Hugin and Munin! Their job was to tell him in his ears what was going on in the world!

I lived in a house, where we had jackdaws living in the (closed!) chimney, and watching their behaviour out in the garden, made me believe that they are very intelligent!

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> I just thought this would be an interesting science article to post a link
> for. What does everyone think about it?
>
> http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/12/1209_041209_crows_apes.html

Doesn't surprise me in the least. I have often sat and watched crows and magpies and marveled at not only their abilities but also their characters. Growing up on the prairies I was always somewhat dumbfounded by the hate many people here, particularly farmers, have for those birds. I realize now that it is due to their inquisitive nature and ability to take advantage of a situation which offers them some promise that has garnered them the reputation as a pest, and their ability to adapt to changing circumstances so readily has made them able not only to adapt to the arrival of man but become adept city dwellers.

My wife and I own about a dozen parrots ( pets ) and we both find them to be much more intelligent and at least equally as loving as dogs and cats. Not a day goes by when we are not amazed at something they do or say. They have the ability to use language to communicate in asking for things, to keep in touch with the other birds and us, to express their feelings and as a form of play.

Unlike other animals (and most other birds I guess), most of their language seems to be learned. Amongst our African Greys we have 4 that were raised in captivity, and an old couple who were both wild caught. The wild caught birds have a completely different language and way of life than the domestically raised birds, the only noise common to both groups is growling when they feel threatened - although since coming to live with us the wild birds have started to learn some of the sounds the other birds use. The native language of parrots seems to be made up mostly of sounds from their environment which they determine to have some signifigance to a certain substance or event. So their language is not really a hard coded language, but an ability, the ability to assign a significant meaning to a sound and mimic that sound - such as the noise of gurgling water, or the english word "water" when asking for clean water. (all of the African Greys understand and use the gurgling water noise, but only some of them use the english word "water" - those that do use it understand that they have the same meaning and are just as likely to use one sound as the other)

Macaws don't seem quite as adept at giving names to objects, but still have a good comprehension for sounds that belong with certain events. Getting ready to go to work brings a chorus of "Gotta go to work now, you be good. I love you.", when they're tired it's "Goodnight" in a very quiet low voice, or "No!", "Stop It!" or "You be Good!" when they're fighting amongst themselves.

They all seem to understand the concept of names, it makes me wonder if they have a way of naming each other in nature. For unlike dogs which usually respond to their own name, the parrots actually know that not only do they have a name but the other pets do as well, and they know most of them. Many of them know our two cats are named Olive and Rosebud and will often refer to them by name when they see them, they sometimes refer to each other by name when talking to each other (for example if our little Conure starts screaming some of the other birds will yell at him to be quiet, but usually they will refer to him specifically - "Quiet Kermie!", but if someone else is making the racket they are likely to just yell "Quiet"). They occassionally order the dogs around, and sometimes using their names specifically "Gomez, in your bed!", not at random, but when that dog is walking by. The nice thing is, that once in a while the dog will obey.

Because of their intelligence parrots also become bored very easily. Unlike a dog or cat which will just go to sleep, a parrot with nothing to do can develop severe behavioural problems resulting in aggression, depression and/or self-mutilation. Or, just wandering around the house like a 4 year old looking for some trouble to get in to (does that moulding around the window really need to be there? let's see how the window looks without it).

Better shut up now, I could go on forever.




Naturally, I love to feed the crows and magpies in the neighbourhood - who cares if it pisses the neighbours off

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"If men had wings and bore black feathers, few of them would be clever enough to be crows" - Henry Ward Beecher



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I go out camping alot and always invite the crows and ravens into my camp. They soon learn that they are welcome to share with me lunch and dinner, but to leave me alone at breakfast time. I enjoy their company and antics, and after awhile you can see the different personalities between them. I respect them and they give me respect in return. Other campers who are selfish will find their food laurders ravaged by the crows when they are absent, but mine has never been touched.

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> I go out camping alot and always invite the crows and ravens into my camp.
> They soon learn that they are welcome to share with me lunch and dinner, but
> to leave my alone at breakfast time. I enjoy their company and antics, and
> after awhile you can see the different personalities between them. I respect
> them and they give me respect in return. Other campers who are selfish will
> find their food laurders ravaged by the crows when they are absent, but mine
> has never been touched.

So many native cultures attached a special signifigance to the crow and raven. It's easy to understand why.

And I like you, like to watch and appreciate the different personalities in them. I think it's interesting that you and I who can see them as individuals rather than just as crows - one and the same, all alike - are also seen by them as being individuals, that they don't lump us together as humans - one and the same, all alike.

I think I have a deeper affinity for magpies though. It's very rare for me to get a crow to eat out of my hand, but quite a few of our local magpies will. And a number of them like to sit nearby and babble with me too, often within a few feet. They seem to be very vocally oriented birds, one of the locals barks like a dog and I've heard people tell of them being able to learn to talk, it doesn't surprise me, the ones that sit and babble with me are very close to talking - the sound is right, it sounds a lot like a baby experimenting with sound and trying to figure it out.

Some years ago I started leaving unsalted peanuts out to entice this Blue Jay that I noticed in the neighborhood. In a few days, he found the peanut stash. Each day I would leave some peanuts out for him and noticed that my front step was placed on his rounds of places to check out every day. I would then leave my front door open so that he could see me when he came for his peanuts. I then started putting the peanuts just inside the door and waited for him. At first he was very cautious about coming in, but his greed for such a treat was too great for him. After awhile, he became quite comfortable coming indoors for his treats. I then started putting the peanuts on the coffee table, and the whole process started over again.

Well, to get to the end of all this, I eventually had him eating out of my hand. Later he brought his mate along with him to join in the feast. If I wasn't in the livingroom he would start squawking to let me know that he was there and wanted his goodies. The female was far more shy, and waited in the background. If I was not going to be home I always left something outside for them. Eventually I had to move and leave them behind. Where I live now there are few resident bird species around, only migratory ones.

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I remember, about a year ago, there was a news report about pigeons in the City. It was really neat!

A pigeon owner in Brooklyn wanted to know what his flock was up to when he was out at work. So one fine day into his retirement (the pigeons were not informed), he let them out of the coup and followed them for the day.

The trip cost him $3.00 - Two subway tokens. It turned out that the pigeons were smart enough to take the subway up to the Bronx. Not a single case of guano, to boot!

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> I remember, about a year ago, there was a news report about pigeons in the
> City. It was really neat!
>
> A pigeon owner in Brooklyn wanted to know what his flock was up to when he was
> out at work. So one fine day into his retirement (the pigeons were not
> informed), he let them out of the coup and followed them for the day.
>
> The trip cost him $3.00 - Two subway tokens. It turned out that the pigeons
> were smart enough to take the subway up to the Bronx. Not a single case of
> guano, to boot!
>

I read about that, the pigeons learning how to ride the subways to where they need to be. It's amazing, isn't it?

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I've heard these birds tend to displace the pigeons in Brooklyn, though

Monk Parrots

> I've heard these birds tend to displace the pigeons in Brooklyn, though
>
> Monk
> Parrots

That's neat. I didn't have the slightest idea that there were domesticated parrots gone feral in North America. I wouldn't have thought that they would have been able to survice that far north. (New York) Most people don't know there used to also be a parakeet native to North America until it was (of course) hunted to extinction. I think it was called the Carolinas Parakeet.

> Some years ago I started leaving unsalted peanuts out to entice this Blue Jay
> that I noticed in the neighborhood. In a few days, he found the peanut stash.
> Each day I would leave some peanuts out for him and noticed that my front
> step was placed on his rounds of places to check out every day. I would then
> leave my front door open so that he could see me when he came for his peanuts.
> I then started putting the peanuts just inside the door and waited for him.
> At first he was very cautious about coming in, but his greed for such a treat
> was too great for him. After awhile, he became quite comfortable coming
> indoors for his treats. I then started putting the peanuts on the coffee
> table, and the whole process started over again.
>
> Well, to get to the end of all this, I eventually had him eating out of my
> hand. Later he brought his mate along with him to join in the feast. If I
> wasn't in the livingroom he would start squawking to let me know that he was
> there and wanted his goodies. The female was far more shy, and waited in the
> background. If I was not going to be home I always left something outside for
> them. Eventually I had to move and leave them behind. Where I live now there
> are few resident bird species around, only migratory ones.

You must be good, I used to do that with squirrels and racoons, but that's much easier to accomplish than to attract a wild bird indoors.

Bump

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