I do not understand most of what is being shouted about on this message board. Frankly it seems to me that this message board is mostly divided between people on one extreme or the other, and so many accusations are flying that I don't know whose lying or if anyone is even telling the truth.

The fellow called WordWeaver seems to be an overzealous Christian trying to spread his idea of what the word of Jesus means and I can't for the life of me see what it has to do with the search for hypothetical extraterrestrial radio signals. SETI has nothing to do with religion unless and until a confirmable signal is found, and even then I doubt it will have immediate repercussions for religion to all but the most fanatic people. Also WordWeaver is not being a very good Christian, since Christians are supposed to try to be like Jesus, and Jesus spread an entirely different message for humanity in an entirely different way, did not waste his time preaching to the already converted or the unreceptive masses, did not speak so hatefully nor become so angry and defensive when confronted with ignorance and hatred by others. In the end WordWeaver will compare to Jesus no better than an eruption of vinegar and baking soda compares to Mount St. Helen's eruption, a pale and pathetic immitation having no strong impact on anyone intelligent or compassionate. Jesus taught a message of love and tolerance for humanity, and without harsh words forgave even his crucifiers. WordWeaver shows himself to be a legalistic Christian ignoring the spirit of the message for endless debate about its precise interpretation (which he will never admit is itself lost beyond recovery through difficulties in translation and context interpretation).

Yet most of the people responding negatively to him are themselves showing the kind of anger and irrationality that no mature athiest, agnostic, skeptic, or alternative believer would be drawn into. It is a waste of effort and energy to attack these people, you merely feed into their messianic persecution complex, and by fighting the issues on their rules (debating the merits of belief and interpretation, rather than moving beyond it to a higher wisdom and understanding and clarity of life) you merely drive them deeper into their mental foxhole, and make them look better in the eyes of fools. For as Murphy once stated, "Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference."

I for one intend to move beyond these petty issues and try to steer some of the conversation on this board in a more positive direction. Would anyone like to join me in this?

---

> For as Murphy
> once stated, "Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference."
>
> I for one intend to move beyond these petty issues and try to steer some of
> the conversation on this board in a more positive direction. Would anyone
> like to join me in this?
>
I think it was Murphy that also said "Never mud wrestle with a pig, you can't win, and the pig likes it".

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> I think it was Murphy that also said "Never mud wrestle with a pig, you can't
> win, and the pig likes it".


Indeed I think he did say that. Murphy was a smart fellow.

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> SETI has nothing to do with religion unless and until a confirmable
> signal is found, and even then I doubt it will have immediate repercussions
> for religion to all but the most fanatic people.

Cafe SETI is meant to be a general-purpose board. Since we still do not have moderation, and since the vast majority of people on this board are still kidding themselves that we don't need it, anything goes. The other two boards are SETI-specific, however.

---

This is an anarchistic place - The only thing that counts as "moderation" is the voice (or posts) of the people who get ticked off. And, well, WordWeaver pissed a lot of us off. Even Guido is benign by comparison.

What you saw is a behavioural pattern that holds true regardless of "location", be it BBS, fora, or a usenet group.

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@ Cosmic Ray,

Well, you are not alone. Many of us are just tired of seeing _so_many_ multiple-screen posts from WorthlessWarthog. He has two or three threads dealing with religion. If he stayed in those threads with his "stuff," perhaps his presence on the project would be more tolerated and not raise as many irate responses, but he puts his rambling, blathering posts in any thread he finds (within the rather loose limits S@h has put on the fora.) Further, the SETI Cafe is a "free fire zone," almost any subject can be discussed here. WorthlessWarthog abuses the freedom of the SETI Cafe with his many cross-posts, and he keeps creating new threads. He has 18 just on the first page of the Cafe listing. He seems to want to publish all his "wonderful" writings in the SETI fora, or at least the SETI Cafe forum. It is a cheap way for him to "publish," and he doesn't have to waste his own disk space with his "stuff." Why use his own when he can use Berkeleys disk space for free? He would probably try in the other fora, too, except that may finally bring down the rath of the SYSADMINs on him.

> I do not understand most of what is being shouted about on this message board.
> Frankly it seems to me that this message board is mostly divided between
> people on one extreme or the other, and so many accusations are flying that I
> don't know whose lying or if anyone is even telling the truth.
>

You are correct, an over zealous Christian is precisely what he is. There are some others here, but they all tend to group together in their little clique. He, and his little coterie, are the kind of Christians that give all Christians a bad name, world wide. They are belligerent, and seem to be too stupid to see their attitudes and behaviors engender bad feelings among others, and just go on and on. He also seems to be a rabid socialist. That does not set well with some.

>
> The fellow called WordWeaver seems to be an overzealous Christian trying to
> spread his idea of what the word of Jesus means and I can't for the life of me
> see what it has to do with the search for hypothetical extraterrestrial radio
> signals. SETI has nothing to do with religion unless and until a confirmable
> signal is found, and even then I doubt it will have immediate repercussions
> for religion to all but the most fanatic people.
>

Oh, you noticed that too? I think many people have.

>
> Also WordWeaver is not being
> a very good Christian, since Christians are supposed to try to be like Jesus,
> and Jesus spread an entirely different message for humanity in an entirely
> different way, did not waste his time preaching to the already converted or
> the unreceptive masses, did not speak so hatefully nor become so angry and
> defensive when confronted with ignorance and hatred by others. In the end
> WordWeaver will compare to Jesus no better than an eruption of vinegar and
> baking soda compares to Mount St. Helen's eruption, a pale and pathetic
> immitation having no strong impact on anyone intelligent or compassionate.
> Jesus taught a message of love and tolerance for humanity, and without harsh
> words forgave even his crucifiers. WordWeaver shows himself to be a
> legalistic Christian ignoring the spirit of the message for endless debate
> about its precise interpretation (which he will never admit is itself lost
> beyond recovery through difficulties in translation and context
> interpretation).
>

WorthlessWarthog claims to be a "professional Christian writer." What he actually is is a "professional Christian". He makes money from being a "Christian" in the same manner Jim and Tammy Fay Baker did and others of their ilk still do. In his case, all the word "professional" means is that he gets paid for doing it, just like any whore.

One problem I've always had with "organized religion" is that you can have four churches of four different denominations, one on each corner of an intersection, and each will spend their time pointing at the others saying "You're all going to hell because you don't believe the same way we do!" They can't all be right. I've seen a few chruches of the same denomination split into separate churches just because of, what seems to me, minor differences in some minor area of their beliefs.

WorthlessWarthog and his coterie have alienated so many people by now that not many care to have a reasoned discussion with them. A number doubt if he _can_ hold a reasoned discussion. Fanatics can't easily be reasoned with, the "jihadists" in Iraq show that.


WorthlessWarthog runs something called the "Armageddon Hotline." I'm not sure exactly what that is. If someone is thinking of going "Armageddon" (read "postal" in the U.S.) on someone else, are they supposed to call the hotline to be talked out of it? Who knows. Who cares!

>
> Yet most of the people responding negatively to him are themselves showing the
> kind of anger and irrationality that no mature athiest, agnostic, skeptic, or
> alternative believer would be drawn into. It is a waste of effort and energy
> to attack these people, you merely feed into their messianic persecution
> complex, and by fighting the issues on their rules (debating the merits of
> belief and interpretation, rather than moving beyond it to a higher wisdom and
> understanding and clarity of life) you merely drive them deeper into their
> mental foxhole, and make them look better in the eyes of fools. For as Murphy
> once stated, "Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference."
>

Good for you. Or you could stay out of the Cafe, as I mostly do. If you stay away from the fool, you won't be tempted to argue with him. WorthlessWarthog doesn't try spread his drivel outside of the Cafe.

>
> I for one intend to move beyond these petty issues and try to steer some of
> the conversation on this board in a more positive direction. Would anyone
> like to join me in this?
>

BTW, in the image in your profile, which one are you, left, right, or both?

And, BTW, my problems with WorthlessWarthog were not from a "religious" thread, but from a "political" thread.

Cheers,

Stephen

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<P>"I want to go dancing on the moon, I want to frolic in zero gravity!....", and now, I might be able to go someday! Thanks, SpaceShipOne and crew!<BR><a><img src="http://69.93.59.107/stats/banner.php?cpid=26cbd89db7fb85cbfe580729d76705c1"></a>

Armageddon sick of all the arguing.

I do not read nor respond to fanatics on these boards, as much as I may privately disapprove of them. It's been said before and well, but another way I look at the (to me) offensive posts and their originators, is akin to the scratch-itch cycle in medicine. If one has an itch, scratching it stimulates histamines in the area, making the itch more intense. Which can lead to more scratching. And so on. All but one or two of you tickle me with your wit and intelligence, and I read your posts with enjoyment and merriment. As to the one or two others who seem toxic...

I choose not to scratch.

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@ Stephen Balch

[b]May the force be with you, as I can see that it is very strong in you.[b]

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Account frozen...

>>>May the force be with you
One winter I put a big rubber Yoda on the roof of my 52 chevy pickup and a sign on the door that depicted Master Yoda, arms outstreched, floating logs into the truckbox.
Yoda Logging was not a good career move but for years afterward the truck was known far and wide as 'the Yoda truck' and if it's still running they still call it that.
My introduction by Obi Wan to Forcism made me a ready convert but sadly we Forcists are few in number as I've yet to meet another and am ready to learn how to make stuff float.
It's an important part of the religion- but I just cant do it yet...cc

> My introduction by Obi Wan to Forcism made me a ready convert but sadly we
> Forcists are few in number as I've yet to meet another and am ready to learn
> how to make stuff float.
> It's an important part of the religion- but I just cant do it yet...cc
>

A little faith with, you might! A little faith just!

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> My introduction by Obi Wan to Forcism made me a ready convert but sadly we
> Forcists are few in number as I've yet to meet another and am ready to learn
> how to make stuff float.
> It's an important part of the religion- but I just cant do it yet...cc

According to the latest source material, you probably lack the exotic infection that allows you to move things.

Forcism??? Don't you mean Jedi-ism??

The Jedi religion has exploded in Canada and apperently has made significant gains in Uk and Australia... Now that's a neat way of spoiling the ballot...

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> Forcism??? Don't you mean Jedi-ism??

I sincerely hope you're not inferring that I'm of those Jeddite jackasses.
Forcism is the ONLY way to properly float stuff around.
Those idiot Jeddites dont even wear the proper headgear HA!
As soon as I can do it, they'll all be sorry...cc

the Dark Side pronunciation belongs to?

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And the winner is?

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Account frozen...

> the Dark Side pronunciation belongs to?

Dont get started with that staoowows myth drivel
Dark side? Staoowows was only a movie. Movies are sometimes not true

***Origin of Man and the Earths' purpose in the Grand Scheme of things***

O so many years ago a ship came to Earth to do a survey
They found what they were looking for and set to work to extract it
They chose a species of common critter, gathered up a mess of healthy ones
And then they put the bug in their heads by throwing a DNA snip-graft-splice party-
Using their tried and true ' DNA Series IV-c /Goldiggers- Ver 3.6' software
When the last ounce is located and mined and refined and ingoted into a certain proportion
And stashed underground in precise gleaming rows and palletized for easy removal-
Well that's when they'll be coming back to harvest the gold crop
And thats when the Forcists will be hailed at the 'Great Golden Parade Float'
As we chosen ones float the Sacred Blocks to waiting stretch freighters
Until the 'The Most Happening Handoff' occurrs, also known as 'The Final Bar'
When we get our reward and those dumb Jeddites are standing there watching.

I'm getting better at it but still cant do it right yet.