If President Obama got on TV and said that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west, some Republican/Tea Partyer will say he's flat out lying.

Another DEM/Libber EXTREMIST Statement(Among Many in the Long Long Long Postings).

Such EXTREMIST Statements Totally Nullify any "Truths", "Facts", and "Histories", "Presented".

Time fO a Cuppa.

Corn 'it'

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

Just thought I'd throw the following links into the mix -- just for the h$%ll of it.

Open the link and read it. If you click on the newspaper name you will get the full text from their web site. Please pay close attention to the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal & the New York Post, all conservative papers. You might find it interesting.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/02/shutdown-newspaper-editorial_n_4030763.html?utm_hp_ref=media

Even the more responsible Republicans in the Senate are after Ted Cruz, one of the architects of the shutdown.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/04/mitch-mcconnell-ted-cruz_n_4041159.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

The number of members of the party willing to vote for a clean spending bill is increasing, the number I heard this morning is now at 21.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/04/charlie-dent-government-shutdown_n_4042608.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

Speaks for itself!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/02/congress-during-government-shutdown_n_4031913.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

Who is extorting who?

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/04/yes_republicans_are_using_extortion_theres_no_sense_in_denying_it/

If you think that this is all the Democrats fault, you really need to get out more and breathe some fresh air.

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I don't buy computers, I build them!!

43 votes and a shutdown. thats almost as good ad the Gordie Howe Hat trick A goal, an assist, and a fight. It's time the REpublicans in congress(small c intentional) take a good hard look at actually working on a budget instead of brinkmanship. they don't have the votes in the senate or a president that will pass their bill. Even if the bill made it to the president and he vetoed it, Congress again doesn't have the votes to override it.

One vote on repealing or defunding is a statement. 43 is just pissing away time that could be better spent actually funding the gov't

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

If you think that this is all the Democrats fault, you really need to get out more and breathe some fresh air.

7 of last 8 days I spent 2+ Hours a day doing Yard Work.

When I came back in, Had a Cuppa, Got Some News, The DEMONcraps were Still To Blame.

Cruize On Broheim.

Corn 'it'

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

The ACA a/k/a bankruptcy of the middle class.

If you are poor, you get free care with ACA.

If you are rich, you already have care.

If you are middle class, you will be made destitute.

The middle class by definition will not get a subsidy. So they have to go out a buy a policy at full price! A quick check shows that at around $700 a month. Just where the hell do you think each and every one of them has $700 a month to toss for that? That is two new car payments! [ed]If they could afford it, they would already have it, well duh!

Now what the heck do you think is going to happen to the economy? Mr. Middle class isn't spending it around town. He had to turn off his phone, internet, cable TV, stop going out for food, stop shopping at the upscale market, stop going on vacation, no more movies, no more amusement park, no more hair cuts, no more manicures, fire the gardener, fire the maid, and maybe he will be able to survive on beans. He has been forced into the low class.

Now ask yourself why the political gamesmanship? The tea fox know they will lose, but in a couple years when the full measure of the ACA hits they hope the voters remember who tried to stand up to the destruction of the economy. That will be around April 15, 2015.

I pity the people who will be doing tax returns in 2015. They won't be a single refund anticipation loan they can sell, so no bonus. I pity the HR departments who will have a blizzard of wage garnishment orders to process. The banks will make out with obscene profits from jacking everyone's credit card rate up to the default 39.99%!

Yes the ACA is the perfect prescription for Amerika.

Now please change it to a single payer plan before you hand the country over on a silver platter.

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From the horses mouth. The Republicans are happy as can be about the shut down

You've also gotta love the language used by the Fox News presenter. How can people watch that show and not be insulted? It is almost as if they think that the viewers are incapable of making up their own minds.

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Reality Internet Personality

The ACA a/k/a bankruptcy of the middle class.

If you are poor, you get free care with ACA.

If you are rich, you already have care.

If you are middle class, you will be made destitute.

The middle class by definition will not get a subsidy. So they have to go out a buy a policy at full price! A quick check shows that at around $700 a month. Just where the hell do you think each and every one of them has $700 a month to toss for that? That is two new car payments! [ed]If they could afford it, they would already have it, well duh!

Now what the heck do you think is going to happen to the economy? Mr. Middle class isn't spending it around town. He had to turn off his phone, internet, cable TV, stop going out for food, stop shopping at the upscale market, stop going on vacation, no more movies, no more amusement park, no more hair cuts, no more manicures, fire the gardener, fire the maid, and maybe he will be able to survive on beans. He has been forced into the low class.

Now ask yourself why the political gamesmanship? The tea fox know they will lose, but in a couple years when the full measure of the ACA hits they hope the voters remember who tried to stand up to the destruction of the economy. That will be around April 15, 2015.

I pity the people who will be doing tax returns in 2015. They won't be a single refund anticipation loan they can sell, so no bonus. I pity the HR departments who will have a blizzard of wage garnishment orders to process. The banks will make out with obscene profits from jacking everyone's credit card rate up to the default 39.99%!

Yes the ACA is the perfect prescription for Amerika.

Now please change it to a single payer plan before you hand the country over on a silver platter.

Since when has the Conservative party in this country given a tinkers damn about the middle class. This program assists the middle class and will most likely keep them healthier.
Lets also look at the 50% drop in gov't cash for Hospitals. Yes thats right with the ACA the money once blindly given to hospitals is now going directly to underserved and under insured to make sure they can see a doctor in his office and not spend $$$ every time they get a cold and are forced to see an ER doctor

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

And, the sad thing about all of this the republicans had a victory and completely ignored it. The democrats in the Senate agreed to the spending bill at the sequester rate/amount that the republicans wanted. The Senate asked 18 times for a conference and was turned down by the other side, led by Ted Cruz 18 times. At the last minute before the shutdown, Cruz wanted to have a conference between the two parties on the spending bill but with the caveat that the ACA be defunded, and it was denied because it wasn't for a clean spending bill. The republicans had already won and they threw it away because they feared the Tea Party backlash.

Politicians, both republican and democrat, liberal and conservative, have been trying to reform the health care system in this country for over 100 years. Now that reform has taken place, for good or bad, the republicans are trying everything in their poser to stop it. Why, because it was put together by a man who they hate more than the act itself. Instead of trying to fix/improve it they never wanted it to get off the ground. There has never in this country's history where a law was put into place that went in 100% perfect, NEVER.

You now have a president that saw what was needed and with the help of people that crafted Romney's bill, mostly republican, put together the ACA. it is a very complicated system and it will probably take some time to iron out all of the problems, but they will be worked out. One of the biggest opponents of the bill was Gov. Jan Brewer of Arizona, a republican. After taking a closer, really hard look at the program(s), she changed her mind and became one of the first republican governors to sign on to the ACA. Now if one of the most rabid opponents of President Obama can work with him on this what is stopping others from doing it also.

There are two main reasons that the President will not cave into the republicans demands of defunding the ACA. 1) Who in their right mind would defund a law that they created, was passed and signed, and afforded the blessing of a conservative Supreme Court as constitutional, all because of a political party didn't like it. 2) To not allow the perception of this president or any future president, republican or democratic, of being blackmailed by a small contingent of either party to passing a spending bill or a raising a debt ceiling by shutting down the government.

Remember back to 1995/96 when a certain speaker of the House with the name of Newt Gingrich attempting the same thing and failed miserably. Here is what Bill Clinton thought of that.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/03/bill-clinton-government-shutdown_n_4037151.html?utm_hp_ref=politics

Newt is the father of all of this mess that we are in now. He is the father of the Tea Party. With out him showing how asinine he can be the Tea Party would never had been formed. When the Tea Party faction helped the republicans gain control in the House of Representatives is when politics in the nation took a drastic and violent turn. You have 30~40 members of the house dictating what the rest of the 218 members are to do, no compromise. If you don't do what we want, you won't last through the next election. Why do you think so many representatives have either resigned or didn't seek re-election in 2010. It is greatly acknowledged that the Republican party does not like a large federal government, it has always been taken for granted. The Tea Party faction of the party did not get elected to govern, it was elected to bring the government down any way it could, enter Ted Cruz and Mike Allen as an example. Cruz is now the defacto speaker of the House. There is a civil war within the republican party and I sincerely hope the adults in the class will put their foot down and take back the House.

Right now the republican are trying to piece meal the spending bill and budget talks, cherry picking what the deem would be good for them and their image, instead of the complete bill/budget. The general populace is slowly wising up to their act and are against it whole heartily.

Speaker Boehner keeps saying that President Obama will not negotiate on the funding. But what he is not saying is that the president is not negotiating on funding as long as the republicans keep holding a gun to his head, demanding the defunding of the ACA or the piecemeal bills that they keep coming up with. The president has said many times that the he will negotiate on any and everything in the funding bill as a whole, but not piecemeal and certainly not the ACA. This insane attitude of the Tea Party Republicans is costing the government $1.6 billion a week. That's not including the income of all those that have been furloughed and lost their jobs, either directly or indirectly. As long as there is a gun to his head, he will not negotiate. YOU SHALL NOT PASS!!

The best thing for the Republican party as a whole is to do 4 things.

1) Get rid of the Tea Party faction and make them attempt to form a separate party of their own. Then get back to your big tent tenants if you still believe in them.

2) Get rid of the southern strategy and go back to the big tent that made them so effective in the past. What you may not realize is that the republican party could have very easily won the last election, it was theirs to lose. They blew it big time with the last two items

3) Stop the war on women. Enough has been said on the war on women, I won't go any further with it here.

4) Stop the war on people of color (black, brown, red, pink, or purple), its got to stop. When the conservative Supreme Court struck down Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act, which was a big mistake btw, the states that were controlled by republicans immediately passed the so called Voter-ID laws, which greatly disenfranchises those same people of color. The Jim Crow laws of the 1950/60s have spawned a new scourge and it is now known as James Crow Esq. Case in point, North Carolina, which has the strictest voter-id law in the country, is now being sued by the Justice Department because of these laws and the same goes for Texas. Eventually all of the voter-id laws will be examined very closely and those states will most likely be sued.

The main reason for this voter-id logic is the premise of voter fraud. The concept of mass voter fraud sprang out of the overwhelming support that President Obama got from populace in his first term election, mainly the African-American, Latino, Asian, and women voters. They couldn't and still can't believe that he got elected not once, but twice. Voter-id laws began springing up soon afterward the first election. Between the war on women and the voter-id laws already in place was enough for Obama to win by 26 million votes more than he had the first time. You tried to suppress the vote and the people revolted against you. Why do you think that people stood so long in the lines to vote, up to 10 hours in some places. Tell someone that they can't do something, without jumping through a whole bunch of extra hoops, that they have been doing for the last 50 years with virtually no problems and they will fight you and vote against you. President Obama's last election was as much for him as it was against the policies of the conservatives of the republican party

Studies have proven that there was never any intentional mass voter fraud. Yes, there have been individual cases in many of the states that voter fraud has occurred. But if you look at those cases, it was not the minorities or democrats that was doing it. If you can't guess who was causing the most voter fraud in the last two presidential election, do some research. You mouth the words that you are a big tent party, but all of your actions are geared towards grumpy old white men, period.

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I don't buy computers, I build them!!

DEM/Libs Lose This Battle.

Hustlin'BlabbyHusseinCaresNot is Total Fail

DEM/Libs Lose '14 and '16 Elections.

We Have A Big Inaugural TEA Party Bash in Jan. '17.

Sweetness. Oh Yeah. fO shO

Corn 'it'

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

Since when has the Conservative party in this country given a tinkers damn about the middle class.

Who says they do, except what they mark in the ballot box ...

This program assists the middle class and will most likely keep them healthier.

Live longer, produce more CO2, warm the planet, oh and at the same time give more taxes to the government or is it buy more stuff make bigger profits?

Lets also look at the 50% drop in gov't cash for Hospitals. Yes thats right with the ACA the money once blindly given to hospitals is now going directly to underserved and under insured to make sure they can see a doctor in his office and not spend $$$ every time they get a cold and are forced to see an ER doctor

What planet are you on? Show me what section of the ACA send a check to an individual insured.

If you meant the check goes to gotbucks medical partners and not poverty case hospital ...

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http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/consumer&id=9273572

Using the least expensive bronze level and the most expensive platinum level, here are some examples of typical out of pocket expenses for each:

- For bronze, your annual deductible would be $5,000. For platinum, it's zero deductible.

- A primary care visit to your doctor costs $60 in co-payment at the bronze level and $20 for the platinum level.

- Brand name prescription drugs will cost you $50 with bronze coverage, and $15 with platinum.

Today without any insurance I pay $68 for a doctor visit. I pay $8 for a prescription. Bronze is $390 a month. Platinum is $448 a month. Calculate how many times a month I have to go to the doctor to save money. Calculate how many prescriptions I have to have filled to save money. Please tell me why Obamacare is so fantastic?

You hire a bunch of bureaucrats and expect them to save you money.

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Gary you posted

Today without any insurance I pay $68 for a doctor visit. I pay $8 for a prescription. Bronze is $390 a month. Platinum is $448 a month. Calculate how many times a month I have to go to the doctor to save money. Calculate how many prescriptions I have to have filled to save money. Please tell me why Obamacare is so fantastic?

You hire a bunch of bureaucrats and expect them to save you money.

I agree Obama care is very flawed but there is another aspect. How are you covered for catastrophic medical events? If you are well enough off to handle those then I would ask why do you bother working for a pay check or do you expect society to cover you on those? Insurance is not supposed to cover day to day events, insurance is supposed to cover things which you can not cover yourself.

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Gary you posted

Today without any insurance I pay $68 for a doctor visit. I pay $8 for a prescription. Bronze is $390 a month. Platinum is $448 a month. Calculate how many times a month I have to go to the doctor to save money. Calculate how many prescriptions I have to have filled to save money. Please tell me why Obamacare is so fantastic?

You hire a bunch of bureaucrats and expect them to save you money.

I agree Obama care is very flawed but there is another aspect. How are you covered for catastrophic medical events? If you are well enough off to handle those then I would ask why do you bother working for a pay check or do you expect society to cover you on those? Insurance is not supposed to cover day to day events, insurance is supposed to cover things which you can not cover yourself.

Then tell me why it was sold to cover day to day events? Have you forgotten that was the major thrust of the arguments for it. That it would get people going to the doctor for a checkup? That the reason they didn't go to the doctor for a checkup is because they couldn't afford it? Obviously a whopping $8 savings is going to magically make it happen!

To discuss why Obamacare you need to understand at a deep level about insurance. Deep enough you see it from the insurance company POV and to track the money.

They hire a smart math guy to figure out how much each policy is going to cost them over time. They know some will cost more and some will cost less. They take this number and massage it a bit to come up with a rate. Coming up with the rate is a bit more complex for health insurance than life insurance, but it is the same general idea. They know on average from past experience how much they will pay out, and how much their future expense will be.

They can't be sure about the amount so they have to build in some buffers. Obviously they have to put in a profit number. That one frequently is limited by state law. They then have to put in some reserves to cover a wrong guess. Then they finally arrive at a premium number you pay. Of course they can't do this in a vacuum so what their competitors charge has to be considered.

So you send in your check. Where does it go? It doesn't go into a bank account! It goes into a policy pool. Everyone on the same policy group goes into the same pool. The pool money is going to sit around for a while so the insurance company wants to make more money off it. So it invests it. It buys stocks and hedge funds.

What happened a few years ago to the stock market? What do you think happened to that pool of money? Remember back right before the crash health insurance was going up 40% on a year to year basis? The government bailed out the banks, but they didn't bail out the health insurance companies. Obamacae is that bailout. Force healthy people to pay 20X for their health care so fat-cat insurance companies can get fatter.

Obama and the democrats couldn't let the insurance company tell the union health plan to double the premium to cover the stock market crash! So they came up with a way to get large sums of cash into these companies to cover their losses before the state regulators declared them in default, which would force the feds to take them over.

At least TARP was transparent and temporary. Obamacare is forever!

And now you know why Obamacare isn't a single payer system like Medicare. You are being taxed for a fat-cat insurance guy's bad guess on the stock market and the necessity of delivering union votes to the democrats.

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What happened a few years ago to the stock market? What do you think happened to that pool of money? Remember back right before the crash health insurance was going up 40% on a year to year basis? The government bailed out the banks, but they didn't bail out the health insurance companies. Obamacae is that bailout. Force healthy people to pay 20X for their health care so fat-cat insurance companies can get fatter.

Obama and the democrats couldn't let the insurance company tell the union health plan to double the premium to cover the stock market crash! So they came up with a way to get large sums of cash into these companies to cover their losses before the state regulators declared them in default, which would force the feds to take them over.

At least TARP was transparent and temporary. Obamacare is forever!

And now you know why Obamacare isn't a single payer system like Medicare. You are being taxed for a fat-cat insurance guy's bad guess on the stock market and the necessity of delivering union votes to the democrats.

Dats Why I Call 'im Hustlin'Hussein. Da Hustler Will Be a MegaFatCat once Out Of Office. He'll do Da SlickWillie Thang Better and Da MOney will Roll In. And He will Suck In mO and mO to His Entourage of Entitlement for Life. He will be Revered. MO GOdLike than nOw.

Sweeter than Sweet. Oh Yeah.

Corn 'it'

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

Gary, I think we agree, you posted,

Then tell me why it was sold to cover day to day events?

And the answer is quite apparent. The health care bill was passed in it's present form to placate the people who felt a single payer system would destroy capitalism.
You did not address my questions of,

How are you covered for catastrophic medical events? If you are well enough off to handle those then I would ask why do you bother working for a pay check or do you expect society to cover you on those? Insurance is not supposed to cover day to day events, insurance is supposed to cover things which you can not cover yourself.

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Getting people to the doctor regularly reduces the risk for future long term high cost events. You need to look at the saving to the whole system, not the individual. (In Canada your government health care will cover some costs for things like weight loss and stopping smoking. Pay a little now, or a lot later.) Of course, this is easier to do in true government health care plans, where the "bronze" level of coverage is provided to everyone at government expense.

I think the US plan combines the worst of private and government medical care plans. My biggest concern is that the day to day running (and therefore the majority of the costs) are controlled by private enterprise. These people could care less about your health, they are interested in shareholder value and ROI. Remember, these are the same type of people (if not actually the same people) who brought you the sub-prime mortgage mess.

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controlled by private enterprise. These people could care less about your health

We The People Trust Not The Government to CONTROL HEALTHCARE.

Da Private Enterprise CAN BE SUED at Lot Easier(ROTLFMAO) than The Gubment.

The Government in Da US of A is FRAKKED UP. Totally Man. Totally.

In Gubment WE DO NOT TRUST.

Not Sad. A Very Healthy Attitude to have. TRUST NOTHING and NO ONE.

Do You Dig It? Yes? I Knew Dat yOu cOuld.

fO Frakking shO

Corn 'it'

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!

Fully agree.

You need to look at the saving to the whole system, not the individual.

So it is the system that is sick, not the individual patient that needs help.

Of course, this is easier to do in true government health care plans, where the "bronze" level of coverage is provided to everyone at government expense.

Please someone change Obamacare to single payer!

I think the US plan combines the worst of private and government medical care plans.

+100,000

These people could care less about your health, they are interested in shareholder value and ROI. Remember, these are the same type of people (if not actually the same people) who brought you the sub-prime mortgage mess.

They are the very same people. (No more Glass-Steagall act.) I thought the democrats wanted to reduce the wealth disparity and not increase it? Guess I was wrong.

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Gary, I think we agree, you posted,

Then tell me why it was sold to cover day to day events?

And the answer is quite apparent. The health care bill was passed in it's present form to placate the people who felt a single payer system would destroy capitalism.
You did not address my questions of,

How are you covered for catastrophic medical events? If you are well enough off to handle those then I would ask why do you bother working for a pay check or do you expect society to cover you on those? Insurance is not supposed to cover day to day events, insurance is supposed to cover things which you can not cover yourself.

Thought I had addressed that very well. I remember Obamacare being sold to address day to day events. If Obamacare was sold as catastrophic care they could not get anyone to sign up!

You seem to be under a mistaken impression that people with assets don't have to work. Unfortunately that is a very common false impression. I don't qualify for MediCal (California's Medicare). I have savings which is a disqualification factor.

I actually wonder about how all these great society programs work to force you to not be able to save for retirement and force you to accept social security as your sole source of income after retirement, when it was designed to be a supplement.

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