Message boards :
Politics :
The USA shuts down
Message board moderation
Previous · 1 . . . 11 · 12 · 13 · 14 · 15 · 16 · 17 · Next
Author | Message |
---|---|
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30646 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
betreger wrote: In terms of individual income and wealth, a regressive tax imposes a greater burden (relative to resources) on the poor than on the rich — there is an inverse relationship between the tax rate and the taxpayer's ability to pay as measured by assets, consumption, or income. Realized I didn't address it. It is trying to define a new and different meaning to an accepted word. It conflates several concepts into one, to make the pill easier to swallow, in effect attempting to inject socialism into the word. If you talk about an income tax, then that is the only subject, it is not about wealth, assets or consumption, just income. |
betreger Send message Joined: 29 Jun 99 Posts: 11361 Credit: 29,581,041 RAC: 66 |
Realized I didn't address it. It is trying to define a new and different meaning to an accepted word Gary, on this point we differ. IIRC you have previously acknowledged that a flat tax would put the person on the margin over the edge, you stated that would not be desirable and I say it is regressive. |
betreger Send message Joined: 29 Jun 99 Posts: 11361 Credit: 29,581,041 RAC: 66 |
I note that state governments and local governments which can not print money must have emergency funds because of this. Why not federally? They do, the social security trust fund. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30646 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
I note that state governments and local governments which can not print money must have emergency funds because of this. Why not federally? Isn't raiding the trust fund, er... pension plan what put "too big to fail" GM under? |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30646 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
The mathematician in me has objections to the new different meaning. How can you have a tax that is flat will all the other factors included? What level of income becomes the no tax zone? Median income? Poverty level? Which poverty level? (different departments publish different numbers) Until you know where the zero line is, how can you know if a tax in progressive or regressive? This is my big bone with that proposed meaning, it is intentionally impossible to quantify. A scoundrel's tactic. Any floor to a flat tax makes it progressive. Any cap to a flat tax makes it regressive. I know we are essentially in agreement. You wish the zero point, to be away from real zero so that it isn't seen as socially undesirable. In essence it says it must have a certain, undefinable level, of progressive built in or it is regressive. Yes, taxes generally should be progressive. I still think everyone should have to pay a minimum per head amount to Uncle Sam, just because every citizen must realize the government is not free and they aren't entitled to free living simply as a birthright. Perhaps an alternate method than cash could be set up to pay this tax, spending a day a year working for the government. BTW would a days work for the government be progressive or regressive? ;) |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30646 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
BTW would a days work for the government be progressive or regressive? ;) Depends on the scale used I'm suspect, job function or personal rate. Now a tough question, is a carbon tax regressive? |
betreger Send message Joined: 29 Jun 99 Posts: 11361 Credit: 29,581,041 RAC: 66 |
The mathematician in me has objections to the new different meaning. Gary, you hit the nail on the head. Economics is not math, it is the social science which attempts to describe how goods and services are produced and distributed it is not math but it does use a lot of math as a tool. |
betreger Send message Joined: 29 Jun 99 Posts: 11361 Credit: 29,581,041 RAC: 66 |
Well known, in some circles the LSE. |
betreger Send message Joined: 29 Jun 99 Posts: 11361 Credit: 29,581,041 RAC: 66 |
I note that state governments and local governments which can not print money must have emergency funds because of this. Why not federally? Yes, and the way social security is being run trouble is around the corner in the next couple of decades unless the benefit is reduced or the income is enhanced. |
betreger Send message Joined: 29 Jun 99 Posts: 11361 Credit: 29,581,041 RAC: 66 |
Well known, in some circles the LSE. Maybe it produces radicals because real smart people see things others don't. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30646 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
The mathematician in me has objections to the new different meaning. Science is describable by mathematics. Social science should be rigorous - hence the science as part of its name. Socialism is those poor huddled masses, the government must help them. Unfortunately, that definition attempts to be both. |
betreger Send message Joined: 29 Jun 99 Posts: 11361 Credit: 29,581,041 RAC: 66 |
In attempt to put this to bed I agree that in a mathematical sense a flat tax is not regressive but an economist will look at it's effects and describe them as regressive. Of the social sciences economics uses very rigorous logic as a tool. |
Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
Well known, in some circles the LSE. This pretty much hits the nail on the head. Reality Internet Personality |
James Sotherden Send message Joined: 16 May 99 Posts: 10436 Credit: 110,373,059 RAC: 54 |
I note that state governments and local governments which can not print money must have emergency funds because of this. Why not federally? If they had not used it to fund other parts of the government they would be in great shape. It was set up to be used for SS only. Not a slush fund for criminal politicians to use to balance the budget and or smoke and mirrors to pretend we had a surlpus in years gone past. My idea would be to hold the House and Senate libel for paying back what they stole from US!. I can retire in 5 years. I depend on what they have promised me for 30% of my income when I retire.Ive been offiacialy in the work force since 1970 when I got part time job after school. Now the crooked bastards want to renege on there end of the deal? What the hell kind of life are the poor young kids just entering the work force now, Have to look forward to? I can see some fatcat congressman saying sorry kids you have to work till you die like in the pre SS days. Sorry for the rant, Its our politicians who fisted us. They should be called to answer for it. [/quote] Old James |
betreger Send message Joined: 29 Jun 99 Posts: 11361 Credit: 29,581,041 RAC: 66 |
Its our politicians who fisted us. They should be called to answer for it. Thank Reagan. |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19057 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
UPI - Fast-food wages costly to taxpayers http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Consumer-Corner/2013/10/27/Fast-food-wages-costly-to-taxpayers/UPI-96621382867940/?spt=hts&or=5 |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30646 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
UPI - Fast-food wages costly to taxpayers more bitching about symptoms. why? what makes adults take the job? |
©2024 University of California
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.