Correct WK

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I do not fight fascists because I think I can win.
I fight them because they are fascists.
Chris Hedges

A riot is the language of the unheard. -Martin Luther King, Jr.

Isn't a countries worth viewed as debt vs GDP. So how is the US GDP going in relation to debt?

And isn't some of this debt a just bookkeeping exercise as some of the debt is actually owed to other government departments?

Yes, primarily the Social Security Administration or America's pension plan. If those debts aren't paid ... Just consider that by 2033 the trust fund will be exhausted and that assumes there is not a default and the debt is paid.

What an ingenious way to get the right generation to pay their taxes, seize their pensions before they can collect.

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Isn't a countries worth viewed as debt vs GDP. So how is the US GDP going in relation to debt?

And isn't some of this debt a just bookkeeping exercise as some of the debt is actually owed to other government departments?

Yes, primarily the Social Security Administration or America's pension plan. If those debts aren't paid ... Just consider that by 2033 the trust fund will be exhausted and that assumes there is not a default and the debt is paid.

What an ingenious way to get the right generation to pay their taxes, seize their pensions before they can collect.

If mu history is correct wasnt SS set up to be self sustaining, And the funds collected not to be used for anything else but SS retirement? Just like your SS number was never supposed to be used as Identification other than SS.

Of course the crooks in D.C. just had to get their hands on all that cash to help balance the books.

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Old James

Correct WK

No, noobs, this is NOT correct. Intra-Governmental debt is not counted in the total debt.

The majority of our debt is borrowed from the Federal Reserve (not a government institution)..the rest from foreign countries. And no, China does not own most of our debt.

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Isn't a countries worth viewed as debt vs GDP. So how is the US GDP going in relation to debt?

And isn't some of this debt a just bookkeeping exercise as some of the debt is actually owed to other government departments?

Yes, primarily the Social Security Administration or America's pension plan. If those debts aren't paid ... Just consider that by 2033 the trust fund will be exhausted and that assumes there is not a default and the debt is paid.

What an ingenious way to get the right generation to pay their taxes, seize their pensions before they can collect.

If mu history is correct wasnt SS set up to be self sustaining, And the funds collected not to be used for anything else but SS retirement? Just like your SS number was never supposed to be used as Identification other than SS.

Of course the crooks in D.C. just had to get their hands on all that cash to help balance the books.

Correct. As a matter of fact in 2008 there was $69 billion 'borrowed' against the SS trust fund which must be paid back with interest. Today, the amount borrowed against the SS Trust fund stands at $2.7T. Again, as in my previous post, this is intra governmental debt so isn't counted in the US debt.

What our government did was borrow from the American people (our retirement fund) and now has to pay that fund back with interest (the interest of course, we pay for ourselves).

That's like going to your bank, borrowing money out of your kids savings account and making your kid pay back the loan and interest to himself.

And apathetic Americans sit idly by and allow this...

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Isn't a countries worth viewed as debt vs GDP. So how is the US GDP going in relation to debt?

And isn't some of this debt a just bookkeeping exercise as some of the debt is actually owed to other government departments?

Yes, primarily the Social Security Administration or America's pension plan. If those debts aren't paid ... Just consider that by 2033 the trust fund will be exhausted and that assumes there is not a default and the debt is paid.

What an ingenious way to get the right generation to pay their taxes, seize their pensions before they can collect.

If mu history is correct wasnt SS set up to be self sustaining, And the funds collected not to be used for anything else but SS retirement? Just like your SS number was never supposed to be used as Identification other than SS.

Of course the crooks in D.C. just had to get their hands on all that cash to help balance the books.

Correct. As a matter of fact in 2008 there was $69 billion 'borrowed' against the SS trust fund which must be paid back with interest. Today, the amount borrowed against the SS Trust fund stands at $2.7T. Again, as in my previous post, this is intra governmental debt so isn't counted in the US debt.

What our government did was borrow from the American people (our retirement fund) and now has to pay that fund back with interest (the interest of course, we pay for ourselves).

That's like going to your bank, borrowing money out of your kids savings account and making your kid pay back the loan and interest to himself.

And apathetic Americans sit idly by and allow this...

But the intra-government debt is counted into the debt ceiling presumably.

Isn't a countries worth viewed as debt vs GDP. So how is the US GDP going in relation to debt?......

A major part of the answer is to get more people in work at decent wages, thereby increasing tax revenue.

Cutting of government expenditure is only part of the answer, revenue has to be raised as well. Yet those whose policy is "slash and burn" also want to cut taxes.

I just don't understand.

T.A.

Isn't a countries worth viewed as debt vs GDP. So how is the US GDP going in relation to debt?

And isn't some of this debt a just bookkeeping exercise as some of the debt is actually owed to other government departments?

Yes, primarily the Social Security Administration or America's pension plan. If those debts aren't paid ... Just consider that by 2033 the trust fund will be exhausted and that assumes there is not a default and the debt is paid.

What an ingenious way to get the right generation to pay their taxes, seize their pensions before they can collect.

If mu history is correct wasnt SS set up to be self sustaining, And the funds collected not to be used for anything else but SS retirement? Just like your SS number was never supposed to be used as Identification other than SS.

Of course the crooks in D.C. just had to get their hands on all that cash to help balance the books.

Correct. As a matter of fact in 2008 there was $69 billion 'borrowed' against the SS trust fund which must be paid back with interest. Today, the amount borrowed against the SS Trust fund stands at $2.7T. Again, as in my previous post, this is intra governmental debt so isn't counted in the US debt.

What our government did was borrow from the American people (our retirement fund) and now has to pay that fund back with interest (the interest of course, we pay for ourselves).

That's like going to your bank, borrowing money out of your kids savings account and making your kid pay back the loan and interest to himself.

And apathetic Americans sit idly by and allow this...

But the intra-government debt is counted into the debt ceiling presumably.

It isn't...

EDIT: The debt ceiling is so we can borrow more to pay the interest on our debt.

That's like using one credit card to pay another...

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Isn't a countries worth viewed as debt vs GDP. So how is the US GDP going in relation to debt?......

A major part of the answer is to get more people in work at decent wages, thereby increasing tax revenue.

Cutting of government expenditure is only part of the answer, revenue has to be raised as well. Yet those whose policy is "slash and burn" also want to cut taxes.

I just don't understand.

T.A.

Cutting taxes increases the amount of money spent in the open market, the economy reacts by growing.

Our economy is driven by growth, not sustainment.

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https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=442376592507280&set=vb.100002048290682&type=2&theater

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Cutting taxes increases the amount of money spent in the open market, the economy reacts by growing.

Our economy is driven by growth, not sustainment.

Hee Hee

How far in your cheek was your tongue as you typed that one ? Wasn't that the reasoning behind the Bush tax cuts ? And look how well they worked.....

More people in work at decent wages will accomplish more than straight tax cuts.

Edit: I suppose you still believe in the "trickle down effect" too ?

T.A.

Cutting taxes increases the amount of money spent in the open market, the economy reacts by growing.

Our economy is driven by growth, not sustainment.

Hee Hee

How far in your cheek was your tongue as you typed that one ? Wasn't that the reasoning behind the Bush tax cuts ? And look how well they worked.....

More people in work at decent wages will accomplish more than straight tax cuts.

Edit: I suppose you still believe in the "trickle down effect" too ?

T.A.

You have lots to learn.

Oh and for the record, I beleive we need to raise taxes NOW and pay off our debt. At the same time, we need to SERIOUSLY reduce expenditures.

EDIT Again: Trickle down never works when we tax and spend ourselves into oblivian...

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I'm out for the weekend...everyone be safe and enjoy your weekend.

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But the intra-government debt is counted into the debt ceiling presumably.

It isn't...

EDIT: The debt ceiling is so we can borrow more to pay the interest on our debt.

That's like using one credit card to pay another...

Wrong, it does count.
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/mspd/2013/opds092013.pdf
See it is added into the total column.

I think you are confusing the budget and the debt.

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Isn't a countries worth viewed as debt vs GDP. So how is the US GDP going in relation to debt?......

A major part of the answer is to get more people in work at decent wages, thereby increasing tax revenue.

Cutting of government expenditure is only part of the answer, revenue has to be raised as well. Yet those whose policy is "slash and burn" also want to cut taxes.

I just don't understand.

T.A.

Cutting taxes increases the amount of money spent in the open market, the economy reacts by growing.

Our economy is driven by growth, not sustainment.

welcome to the failed theory of supply side economics. If you'll open your texts to page one you'll note that cutting taxes doesn't encourage them to buy anything other than stocks and bonds. This hardly helps an economy. What does affect an economy is low and liddle class tax breaks. Low and middle class spend a greater % of their income just staying alive than the wealthy. A tax break means they can buy a new TV or car or other item that they'd be unlikely to buy. This also creates work because manufacturers will then need to produce more goods to meet demand. So for a few $hundred you get a multiple return in workers income tax and sales tax on purchase. Lets not forget the suppliers of the raw materials for production they also spend money and pay more taxes. It's a wonderfully efficient cycle and the gov't does get more tax revenue.

Supply side economics on the other hand failed miserably twice. The first instance was the 12 years of Reagan/Bush (tripling the deficit) and W( doubling it again) Haven't we had enough testing of a bad idea. It doesn't work. THe only way it could work is if the wealthy were forced to spend their money in producing jobs. Currently, we don't have that and are unlikely, too.

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In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope

Cutting taxes increases the amount of money spent in the open market, the economy reacts by growing.

Given the well documented growth of income inequality in this country your vision of trickle down has not worked. For it to work the concept of diminishing marginal utility would be incorrect.

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OTOH. All counties have a limit below which income tax is not payable. The reason why 47% of US citizens don't pay income tax is because their earnings are below this limit.

If they were paid a decent wage
a) They would be paying tax.

b) They would have more disposable income to buy more consumer goods.

c) They would not require government assistance, food stamps etc.

Why should an NCO serviceman's family need to require food stamps in order to survive ? (a distant relative of mine who was in the US Navy was in this position)

If you want to criticise the "47%", maybe you should take a hard look at just why the number of people below the threshold is so high, rather than branding them as bludgers !!

T.A.

Cutting taxes increases the amount of money spent in the open market, the economy reacts by growing.

Given the well documented growth of income inequality in this country your vision of trickle down has not worked. For it to work the concept of diminishing marginal utility would be incorrect.

Can't help it if they breed/immigrate faster than it trickles. And how does that affect global warming?

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Can't help it if they breed/immigrate faster than it trickles.

The income has not trickled.

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