For the U.S. Constitution

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Profile Gary CharpentierCrowdfunding Project Donor
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Message 1408348 - Posted: 27 Aug 2013, 13:57:38 UTC - in response to Message 1408324.  

No founder would have thought the child within the mother was anything but living and worthy of natural rights.


Evidence please. Here's a start.

Thank you for that list, of course at the time the constitution was written it was quasi-legal for the father to abort the child until the age of 21. It wasn't until 1875, one hundred years later, that there was the first mention of "child abuse" in American politics.
http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publishing/insights_law_society/ChildProtectionHistory.authcheckdam.pdf

I'm sure ID wants to go back to such enlightened times ...

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Message 1408364 - Posted: 27 Aug 2013, 14:38:33 UTC

No founder would have allowed the tax system we have now. They where killing people for a 3% tax on a breakfast drink called tea.
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Message 1408370 - Posted: 27 Aug 2013, 15:02:50 UTC

No founder would have allowed the UN to build on our lands. Nor would they have joined such a group.
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Message 1408388 - Posted: 27 Aug 2013, 15:26:58 UTC - in response to Message 1408370.  
Last modified: 27 Aug 2013, 15:31:56 UTC

No founder would have allowed the UN to build on our lands. Nor would they have joined such a group.

brave assumption considering the state of the world at the time. The US colonies were far removed from the center of the world (europe) and were hardly a choice place to international negotiations when the countries that needed it were in Europe and were creating colonies throughout the world. a trip to america took around a month one way. One can easily see how that wouldn't be an efficient means of meeting internationally.
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Message 1408538 - Posted: 27 Aug 2013, 23:18:56 UTC

I think that if I.D. had been alive in 1775, because of his preference for keeping things as they were in the past, he would not have supported the Revolution.
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Message 1408562 - Posted: 28 Aug 2013, 0:24:18 UTC - in response to Message 1408388.  

No founder would have allowed the UN to build on our lands. Nor would they have joined such a group.

brave assumption considering the state of the world at the time. The US colonies were far removed from the center of the world (europe) and were hardly a choice place to international negotiations when the countries that needed it were in Europe and were creating colonies throughout the world. a trip to america took around a month one way. One can easily see how that wouldn't be an efficient means of meeting internationally.


Not an assumption.

1st Prez Washington.....“Harmony, liberal intercourse with all Nations, are recommended by policy, humanity and interest. But even our Commercial policy should hold an equal and impartial hand: neither seeking nor granting exclusive favours or preferences; consulting the natural course of things; diffusing and diversifying by gentle means the streams of Commerce, but forcing nothing; establishing with Powers so disposed; in order to give trade a stable course.”

“My ardent desire is, and my aim has been… to comply strictly with all our engagements foreign and domestic; but to keep the United States free from political connections with every other Country. To see that they may be independent of all, and under the influence of none. In a word, I want an American character, that the powers of Europe may be convinced we act for ourselves and not for others; this, in my judgment, is the only way to be respected abroad and happy at home.”

“My policy has been, and will continue to be, while I have the honor to remain in the administration of the government, to be upon friendly terms with, but independent of, all the nations of the earth. To share in the broils of none. To fulfill our own engagements. To supply the wants, and be carriers for them all: Being thoroughly convinced that it is our policy and interest to do so.”

“Observe good faith and justice towards all Nations. Cultivate peace and harmony with all.”

“To be prepared for war, is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.”

“The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to foreign nations, is in extending our commercial relations to have as little political connection as possible… Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalships, interest, humor, or caprice?… It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world.“

If George Washington were alive and running for President today, would his policies of non-intervention have him to be called a crazy isolationist, or would we see the wisdom in his foreign policy?


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Message 1408569 - Posted: 28 Aug 2013, 0:39:01 UTC - in response to Message 1408538.  
Last modified: 28 Aug 2013, 0:40:07 UTC

I think that if I.D. had been alive in 1775, because of his preference for keeping things as they were in the past, he would not have supported the Revolution.

I believe the word you are looking for is Tory.
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Message 1408595 - Posted: 28 Aug 2013, 1:28:10 UTC - in response to Message 1408569.  

I think that if I.D. had been alive in 1775, because of his preference for keeping things as they were in the past, he would not have supported the Revolution.

I believe the word you are looking for is Tory.


I believe the both of you are baiting me. This had better stop, like right now.
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Message 1408605 - Posted: 28 Aug 2013, 1:45:07 UTC - in response to Message 1408595.  

I think that if I.D. had been alive in 1775, because of his preference for keeping things as they were in the past, he would not have supported the Revolution.

I believe the word you are looking for is Tory.


I believe the both of you are baiting me. This had better stop, like right now.

That statement is not an argument, it sounds to me like a sign of defeat, and if we don't stop beating you, you ask the mods to step in and call an end to the contest, so that you can claim a draw.
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Message 1408649 - Posted: 28 Aug 2013, 3:52:03 UTC
Last modified: 28 Aug 2013, 4:30:44 UTC

This thread is hilarious.
ID whining about how unfair life is,
and Guy yammering about how only he knows the intent of the founding fathers.
I can't even be bothered reading all of a Guy post since he suffers from verbal diarrhea.
The founding fathers were concise, but not very enlightened.
100 years to end slavery, 150 years to give women the vote.
One very bloody civil war.
They could have done much better.

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Message 1408655 - Posted: 28 Aug 2013, 4:18:58 UTC - in response to Message 1408634.  

I don't know if you realize this or not but "I'm sure ID wants to go back to such enlightened times ..." sure does seem like a sarcastic remark. Couple things wrong with that. 1) It seems you're implying the founding of this nation wasn't an enlightened time. I, and many others believe it was an enlightened time. Our nation's history suggests something magical happened. 2) To blow off all the good that has been created from this nation is an insult to multiple generations of Americans. 3) And being an American yourself, it makes me angry to see someone living in this country, insulting it, and not moving the hell out of it to a country that you find is better.

You had better take a reading comprehension course. In no way was or am I suggesting that the times then were not enlightened. That does not imply that they were the most enlightened possible. Are you saying it is not possible to improve from those times and the only way is down? With your later mention of slavery which was done away with, you are suggesting that the country was better with it, than it is now without it. Just to use your own reading comprehension on your words.

As to you wing description of eagles, the first wind tunnel had not been built. Quite a flight of fancy you have constructed.

Now as to that turkey and eagle, go stand in front of some polished black granite slabs with names inscribed in a V shaped wall in Washington DC, and remind yourself, a turkey is a peaceful bird that is plentiful, an eagle is an endangered hunting bird or bird of war, has this choice had anything to do with why this wall is here? Linger an hour or so to absorb the scene before you give yourself the answer.

Finally my statement of a suggestion of a word to WK, was made to WK. It was not a comment about ID. And being a Tory in 1775 was perfectly acceptable.


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Message 1408674 - Posted: 28 Aug 2013, 4:59:08 UTC - in response to Message 1408649.  

Netherlands? And you are going to tell us about the founding of the USA? LOL!

Most of the founders were Federalist, not all but most. Of them most were against slavery. Most were for the ladies voting.

1915: Women get the vote in Denmark and Iceland. ... 1919: Netherlands gives women the vote. 1919: Woman suffrage is granted in Belarus, Luxembourg and Ukraine.

I believe your country falls into the same box you're trying to place us in.
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Message 1408677 - Posted: 28 Aug 2013, 5:02:07 UTC - in response to Message 1408605.  

I think that if I.D. had been alive in 1775, because of his preference for keeping things as they were in the past, he would not have supported the Revolution.

I believe the word you are looking for is Tory.


I believe the both of you are baiting me. This had better stop, like right now.

That statement is not an argument, it sounds to me like a sign of defeat, and if we don't stop beating you, you ask the mods to step in and call an end to the contest, so that you can claim a draw.


That would be B-A-I-T-I-N-G, not beating. LOL, you haven't even came close to beating me. :-)
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Message 1408678 - Posted: 28 Aug 2013, 5:05:18 UTC - in response to Message 1408649.  

This thread is hilarious.
ID whining about how unfair life is,
and Guy yammering about how only he knows the intent of the founding fathers.
I can't even be bothered reading all of a Guy post since he suffers from verbal diarrhea.
The founding fathers were concise, but not very enlightened.
100 years to end slavery, 150 years to give women the vote.
One very bloody civil war.
They could have done much better.

-------------
What is Intelligent Design?
It's God having One Brain Storm in a Million Brain Farts.



http://old.antislavery.org/breakingthesilence/slave_routes/slave_routes_netherlands.shtml

You should learn your own history before you T-R-Y to teach me mine. LOL! BAWahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Message 1408681 - Posted: 28 Aug 2013, 5:12:18 UTC
Last modified: 28 Aug 2013, 5:13:39 UTC

I'm not from the Netherlands.
Nice try on changing the subject though.
I think you're a bit off the topic of "For the U.S. constitution.

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Message 1408683 - Posted: 28 Aug 2013, 5:13:49 UTC

Our founders would never have allowed immigration without assimilation.

Mr. Burke, representing South Carolina:

There is another class also that I would interdict, that is, the convicts and criminals which they pour out of British jails. I wish sincerely some mode could be adopted to prevent the importation of such; but that, perhaps, is not in our power; the introduction of them ought to be considered as a high misdemeanor.

Here’s Connecticut’s Roger Sherman:

Now, the regulation provided for in this bill, entitles all free white persons, which includes emigrants, and even those who are likely to become chargeable. [In other words, a liability--See Dub] It certainly never would be undertaken by Congress to compel the States to receive and support this class of persons; it would therefore be necessary that some clause should be added to the bill to counteract such a general proposition.

Mr. Smith of South Carolina:

Now, if every emigrant who purchases a small lot, but for which perhaps he has not paid, becomes in a moment qualified to mingle in their parish or corporation politics, it is possible it may create great uneasiness in neighborhoods which have been long accustomed to live in peace and unity.

Here’s Georgia’s Mr. Jackson:

Shall stories be told of our citizenship, such as I have read in the Pennsylvania Magazine of the citizenship there? If my memory serves me right, the story runs, that at a contested election in Philadelphia, when parties ran very high, and no stone was left unturned, on either side, to carry the election, most of the ships in the harbor were cleared of their crews, who, ranged under the masters and owners, came before a Magistrate, took the oath of allegiance, and paid half a crown tax to the Collector, as the Constitution required, then went and voted, and decided the contest of the day. On the return of one of the vessels, whose crew had been employed in the affair of the election, they fell in with a shoal of porpoises off Cape Henlopen: “Ha!” said one of them, “what merry company have we got here! I wonder where they are going so cheerfully?” “Going,” replied one of his comrades, “why, going to Philadelphia, to be sure, to pay taxes, and vote for Assembly men!” I hope, Mr. Chairman, we have more respect for our situation as citizens, than to expose ourselves to the taunts and jeers of a deriding world, by making that situation too cheap.

Roger Sherman, again,

…presumed it was intended by the Convention, who framed the Constitution, that Congress should have the power of naturalization, in order to prevent particular States receiving citizens, and forcing them upon others who would not have received them in any other manner.

Roger Sherman, again,

…presumed it was intended by the Convention, who framed the Constitution, that Congress should have the power of naturalization, in order to prevent particular States receiving citizens, and forcing them upon others who would not have received them in any other manner.

Mr. Madison:

…It is no doubt very desirable that we should hold out as many inducements as possible for the worthy part of mankind to come and settle amongst us, and throw their fortunes into a common lot with ours. But why is this desirable? Not merely to swell the catalogue of people. No, sir, it is to increase the wealth and strength of the community; and those who acquire the rights of citizenship, without adding to the strength or wealth of the community are not the people we are in want of. And what is proposed by the amendment is, that they shall take nothing more than an oath of fidelity, and declare their intention to reside in the United States. Under such terms, it was well observed by my colleague, aliens might acquire the right of citizenship, and return to the country from which they came, and evade the laws intended to encourage the commerce and industry of the real citizens and inhabitants of America, enjoying at the same time all the advantages of citizens and aliens.

Mr. Smith, again,

…conceived a man ought to be some time in the country before he could pretend to exercise it. What could he know of the Government the moment he landed? Little or nothing: how then could he ascertain who was a proper person to legislate or judge of the laws? Certainly gentlemen would not pretend to bestow a privilege upon a man which he is incapable of using?


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Message 1408684 - Posted: 28 Aug 2013, 5:15:45 UTC - in response to Message 1408681.  

I'm not from the Netherlands.
Nice try on changing the subject though.
I think you're a bit off the topic of "For the U.S. constitution.

---------------
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Really---note the flag to your left. You might understand my confusion....and your deception.
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