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Message 1408117 - Posted: 26 Aug 2013, 21:56:56 UTC - in response to Message 1408108.  

I thought words meant things. I guess I'm a snoot. I thought judges were supposed to be fair and impartial.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/books/2012/08/reading_law_antonin_scalia_and_bryan_garner_s_guide_to_textualism_reviewed_.single.html

For Scalia and Garner, textualism is the great judicial defense of America’s system of lawmaking and checks and balances. It goes like this: Elected by voters and working together as a body, our legislators bring together lots of individual intentions, which means that drafting laws requires compromise. It’s absurd, then, to think there might be a singular “legislative intent” behind any statute. The same goes for readings of the “spirit of the law” instead of its “letter” or a belief in the “Living Constitution.” Absurdities all. When judges do anything but fairly read texts they turn the whole Constitutional system on its head.

Interesting. Appears Scalia would never look at the Federalist.

Since Scalia wants to overturn Roe v. Wade, since when does a judge ever speculate on cases that might come before him?!!!, and he doesn't read the Federalist, that must mean that there is justification for Roe v. Wade in the Federalist. Must give some here apoplexy.


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Message 1408126 - Posted: 26 Aug 2013, 22:34:08 UTC - in response to Message 1408108.  

Maybe words do mean things, but do they mean the same now as when first written.
And might, they have had a third, or more meanings, between now and then.

Try these;
Abandon
Addict
Assassin
Awful
Bimbo
Bully
Cute
Decimate
Fantastic
Garble
Gay
Husband
Matrix
Nervous
Nice

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Message 1408169 - Posted: 27 Aug 2013, 1:01:22 UTC - in response to Message 1408159.  

If we can't understand each other speaking the same language then we're doomed for sure.

Our language evolves as we do. We can't attach the meaning of words today to old writing. Not only have the words changes meaning, perhaps to the point that subtle nuances are forever lost, but the situations those words were meant to describe are no longer applicable.

Highway men robbing conestoga wagons doesn't translate well to police searching cars at drunk driving dragnets, but those who claim immutability believe it does.

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Message 1408212 - Posted: 27 Aug 2013, 4:18:11 UTC

No founder would have thought the child within the mother was anything but living and worthy of natural rights.


Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...
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Message 1408324 - Posted: 27 Aug 2013, 11:37:49 UTC - in response to Message 1408212.  

No founder would have thought the child within the mother was anything but living and worthy of natural rights.


Evidence please. Here's a start.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1408348 - Posted: 27 Aug 2013, 13:57:38 UTC - in response to Message 1408324.  

No founder would have thought the child within the mother was anything but living and worthy of natural rights.


Evidence please. Here's a start.

Thank you for that list, of course at the time the constitution was written it was quasi-legal for the father to abort the child until the age of 21. It wasn't until 1875, one hundred years later, that there was the first mention of "child abuse" in American politics.
http://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publishing/insights_law_society/ChildProtectionHistory.authcheckdam.pdf

I'm sure ID wants to go back to such enlightened times ...

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Message 1408364 - Posted: 27 Aug 2013, 14:38:33 UTC

No founder would have allowed the tax system we have now. They where killing people for a 3% tax on a breakfast drink called tea.
Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...
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Message 1408370 - Posted: 27 Aug 2013, 15:02:50 UTC

No founder would have allowed the UN to build on our lands. Nor would they have joined such a group.
Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...
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Message 1408388 - Posted: 27 Aug 2013, 15:26:58 UTC - in response to Message 1408370.  
Last modified: 27 Aug 2013, 15:31:56 UTC

No founder would have allowed the UN to build on our lands. Nor would they have joined such a group.

brave assumption considering the state of the world at the time. The US colonies were far removed from the center of the world (europe) and were hardly a choice place to international negotiations when the countries that needed it were in Europe and were creating colonies throughout the world. a trip to america took around a month one way. One can easily see how that wouldn't be an efficient means of meeting internationally.


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Message 1408538 - Posted: 27 Aug 2013, 23:18:56 UTC

I think that if I.D. had been alive in 1775, because of his preference for keeping things as they were in the past, he would not have supported the Revolution.
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Message 1408562 - Posted: 28 Aug 2013, 0:24:18 UTC - in response to Message 1408388.  

No founder would have allowed the UN to build on our lands. Nor would they have joined such a group.

brave assumption considering the state of the world at the time. The US colonies were far removed from the center of the world (europe) and were hardly a choice place to international negotiations when the countries that needed it were in Europe and were creating colonies throughout the world. a trip to america took around a month one way. One can easily see how that wouldn't be an efficient means of meeting internationally.


Not an assumption.

1st Prez Washington.....“Harmony, liberal intercourse with all Nations, are recommended by policy, humanity and interest. But even our Commercial policy should hold an equal and impartial hand: neither seeking nor granting exclusive favours or preferences; consulting the natural course of things; diffusing and diversifying by gentle means the streams of Commerce, but forcing nothing; establishing with Powers so disposed; in order to give trade a stable course.”

“My ardent desire is, and my aim has been… to comply strictly with all our engagements foreign and domestic; but to keep the United States free from political connections with every other Country. To see that they may be independent of all, and under the influence of none. In a word, I want an American character, that the powers of Europe may be convinced we act for ourselves and not for others; this, in my judgment, is the only way to be respected abroad and happy at home.”

“My policy has been, and will continue to be, while I have the honor to remain in the administration of the government, to be upon friendly terms with, but independent of, all the nations of the earth. To share in the broils of none. To fulfill our own engagements. To supply the wants, and be carriers for them all: Being thoroughly convinced that it is our policy and interest to do so.”

“Observe good faith and justice towards all Nations. Cultivate peace and harmony with all.”

“To be prepared for war, is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.”

“The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to foreign nations, is in extending our commercial relations to have as little political connection as possible… Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalships, interest, humor, or caprice?… It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world.“

If George Washington were alive and running for President today, would his policies of non-intervention have him to be called a crazy isolationist, or would we see the wisdom in his foreign policy?


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Message 1408569 - Posted: 28 Aug 2013, 0:39:01 UTC - in response to Message 1408538.  
Last modified: 28 Aug 2013, 0:40:07 UTC

I think that if I.D. had been alive in 1775, because of his preference for keeping things as they were in the past, he would not have supported the Revolution.

I believe the word you are looking for is Tory.
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Message 1408595 - Posted: 28 Aug 2013, 1:28:10 UTC - in response to Message 1408569.  

I think that if I.D. had been alive in 1775, because of his preference for keeping things as they were in the past, he would not have supported the Revolution.

I believe the word you are looking for is Tory.


I believe the both of you are baiting me. This had better stop, like right now.
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Message 1408605 - Posted: 28 Aug 2013, 1:45:07 UTC - in response to Message 1408595.  

I think that if I.D. had been alive in 1775, because of his preference for keeping things as they were in the past, he would not have supported the Revolution.

I believe the word you are looking for is Tory.


I believe the both of you are baiting me. This had better stop, like right now.

That statement is not an argument, it sounds to me like a sign of defeat, and if we don't stop beating you, you ask the mods to step in and call an end to the contest, so that you can claim a draw.
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Message 1408649 - Posted: 28 Aug 2013, 3:52:03 UTC
Last modified: 28 Aug 2013, 4:30:44 UTC

This thread is hilarious.
ID whining about how unfair life is,
and Guy yammering about how only he knows the intent of the founding fathers.
I can't even be bothered reading all of a Guy post since he suffers from verbal diarrhea.
The founding fathers were concise, but not very enlightened.
100 years to end slavery, 150 years to give women the vote.
One very bloody civil war.
They could have done much better.

-------------
What is Intelligent Design?
It's God having One Brain Storm in a Million Brain Farts.
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Message 1408655 - Posted: 28 Aug 2013, 4:18:58 UTC - in response to Message 1408634.  

I don't know if you realize this or not but "I'm sure ID wants to go back to such enlightened times ..." sure does seem like a sarcastic remark. Couple things wrong with that. 1) It seems you're implying the founding of this nation wasn't an enlightened time. I, and many others believe it was an enlightened time. Our nation's history suggests something magical happened. 2) To blow off all the good that has been created from this nation is an insult to multiple generations of Americans. 3) And being an American yourself, it makes me angry to see someone living in this country, insulting it, and not moving the hell out of it to a country that you find is better.

You had better take a reading comprehension course. In no way was or am I suggesting that the times then were not enlightened. That does not imply that they were the most enlightened possible. Are you saying it is not possible to improve from those times and the only way is down? With your later mention of slavery which was done away with, you are suggesting that the country was better with it, than it is now without it. Just to use your own reading comprehension on your words.

As to you wing description of eagles, the first wind tunnel had not been built. Quite a flight of fancy you have constructed.

Now as to that turkey and eagle, go stand in front of some polished black granite slabs with names inscribed in a V shaped wall in Washington DC, and remind yourself, a turkey is a peaceful bird that is plentiful, an eagle is an endangered hunting bird or bird of war, has this choice had anything to do with why this wall is here? Linger an hour or so to absorb the scene before you give yourself the answer.

Finally my statement of a suggestion of a word to WK, was made to WK. It was not a comment about ID. And being a Tory in 1775 was perfectly acceptable.


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