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MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes Send message Joined: 16 Jun 02 Posts: 6895 Credit: 6,588,977 RAC: 0 |
No I wouldn't, because I wouldn't trust the average person to be able to judge what would be right and sensible. YOu Be Funny. The Politics Section of Da Forum is Mostly Inhabited by UKers Bashing the US. ThAt Be Funny. Little Islands Go Away. ThIs Big Disorganized, Fiefdom Ridden Country is Here To Stay. But, ifN Youse Gots Nuttin' Betta Ta Do, Bash Away. Bound FO "IT" IT. "There" There Always. Hey Hey. May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!! |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Gary, yes, each state IS a nation state. So you understand statism can and does occur at the state government level as well as the federal level. Just as it can at the county, city or neighborhood council level. It appears you're not *reading* what I'm writing. I do, 100%. I think you are having a hard time understanding all the consequences of what you are saying. Now think about the extreme statement you just made. "tea statists multiplying by 50" Now you didn't quote the entire thing. That means you didn't understand what was said, or didn't want to. Do you actually think Hawaii will be taken over by the tea party? Do you actually think Illinois will be taken over by the tea party? Massachussettes? New York? It doesn't matter what statist party controls a state. What matters is that a statist party controls a state. Be that democrat, republican, green, whig ... Now you might get the multiply part. Take the federal supremacy away and ... Instead of blocking one government from statism, 51 need to be blocked! Wouldn't you like to allow the states (or the people, respectively) the freedom to choose how they want to be governed? Looks like you need an example. Any long haul trucker, think roads which you said should be federal, can tell you there is a nice eastern state that has a law on the books requiring truckers to purchase fuel in that state. There is a nice federal interstate highway that clips a corner of that state. Runs about 3 miles in the state. Their highway patrol dedicates a lot of time to enforcing this law on that segment of highway. The single fuel station and the only turnoff makes a lot of money from this law. This is what the Tea advocates, and it is happening today on a federal interstate highway. I can see another coming down the pike if the tea statists get their way. Missouri, home of legitimate rape Todd Akin, member of the Tea Party Caucus, will pass their law defining life starting at conception and their won't be any Roe v Wade federal supremacy to block it. Miss Virgin Victim will get legitimately raped and somehow Todd Akin's theory won't work and she will be pregnant. Fortunately she has money, so she will go to liberal California and have a legal safe abortion. The moment she returns to Missouri she will be arrested for capital murder. You will claim it is far fetched. It already has legal precedent. The legal theory is that a citizen is bound by the laws of their nation state no matter what soil they are on. So they must comport themselves in accordance with their citizen states laws at all times, in addition to the laws of the soil they are on. Have a friend, a retired law enforcement officer, who has made arrests under this theory. Cases have gone to SCOTUS under this theory. SOCTUS says it is a legitimate law. This is what the Tea advocates! What happened to that full faith and credit clause ... ...Allow states to lean left or right, laissez-faire or dictatorial, zero government or communist, and see which states become successful and which ones fail? You want states to fail?! Who pays for it? How do they declare bankruptcy? Is the Tea really that daft? Just how does the supremacy clause (s)quash all political/economic control at the state level? When all or any portion of political/economic control is outlawed it acts with this outlawing to spread the outlawing 50 times! Yes, the supremacy clause is a vital part of the constitution. Without it, we might as well be living under the articles of confederation. However, the original intent was to give the federal government the authority to arbitrate conflicts THAT ARISE FROM STATE CONSTIUTIONS/LAWS. Right, like the conflict that one state allows a medical procedure that another state outlaws, say abortion. Today, the supremacy clause is now interpreted to justify things like obamacare. Funny, the PPACA is a tax. Therefore it does not need to rely on the supremacy clause. Or is the Tea saying the federal government will not be able to have any taxes after they get their way? BTW, the PPACA is actually a tax credit. If you have a special situation, own a qualifying medical care policy, you get a credit of the "penalty" amount. Just like having an oil well being depleted gets you a credit. |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
No I wouldn't, because I wouldn't trust the average person to be able to judge what would be right and sensible. Then why the right-wing opposition to abortion, same-sex marriage, &c.? Seems Chris has a poor opinion of what the average person can accomplish, though your characterization of the difference between left and right does not appear to me to be balanced. From the libertarian site Gary linked the right-winger maintains that the average person should be constrained in their personal habits, while the left-winger maintains that the average person should be constrained in the economic habits, the statist believes that the average person should be constrained in both their economic and personal habits, and the libertarian in neither. Based on this description it's clear that the tea party is a right-wing movement, that Gary is not a statist, and neither are liberals. I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
This whole discussion reminds me of the scene in Oliver Twist where the pickpockets shout "stop thief" The constitution isn't the problem, Amercia got hi-jacked and is now run by the rich for the rich. Congress is just a puppet theatre run for corporate interests. The "lamestream" media is run by a few rich guys who keep pointing that finger everywhere but where you really should be looking. The Tea Party was originally funded by those same people to promote their agenda. Guy needs to take a look at who's pulling his strings and stop drinking the KoolAid. Reality Internet Personality |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
And I think you are having a hard time understanding the consequences of what we are in the process of *doing* to ourselves right now even though it's in full view for everyone to see. Oh, I see it. I just don't think the tea solution is the only answer or anywhere near the best answer. Your long haul trucker example is a perfect example of why the supremacy clause (and the commerce clause) was put in the constitution. If that little 3 mile section is being used to extort money from people passing through, then I would fully support the federal government stepping in and telling the state to stop doing it because it's violating the commerce clause. I don't see how the tea party can support this literal highway robbery from a state. States build roads too and can rob, er... tax for them too. And how can the feds do this proposal of yours without another power grab from the states sovereign ability to levy taxes? You want to have your cake and eat it too. Centralizing power in the hands of a few in Washington DC will only make this ENTIRE NATION FAIL. Why does the tea still insist on allowing any government to have power? Is it not because they disagree with government having those powers, but because they disagree with how those powers are being used? Right now all those powers you want the states to have so they supposedly won't use them are presently denied to them. Leave it that way and take those powers away from the federal government as well. This is the easiest way to get the issue solved. Take the easy road. |
skildude Send message Joined: 4 Oct 00 Posts: 9541 Credit: 50,759,529 RAC: 60 |
Well apparently you three don't like the U.S. Constitution and have become totally intolerant of other people who disagree with you. From your perspective, it's either your way or the highway. Not very open minded, are we? someone forgot his history again. the boston Tea party was a minor event. The revolution representative of about 1/6 of the population. Hardly a majority thing. Among those directly opposed to a revolution were the brits, american loyalists and Hessians. the remaining 1/3 either didn't care or didn't want to get involved. again hardly a mass movement. I seem to be in unison with the others in thinking that you and the Faux new folk are the only keepers and knowers of the constitution. This is hardly true. I'll go back to the strict constructionism that most if not all conservatives slather over and disagree with you again that this is a living document using your round tip scissors and elmers glue to cut, gut and remake the constitution in your own light is a hugely ignorant thing to do. You may want to follow the Supreme Court and read up on its trevails through the centuries. They are the actual Deciders on what is and isn't constitutional. And until recent court decisions never overturn solid and valid judgements. the country has evolved, the people and their thinking has, and the gov't has as well. funny you mention tea partiers as if they were a separate party. They are republicans and libertarians in the republican party. That is all it is. the big tent keeps getting emptier and emptier so they just have to scream that much louder to make themselves heard no matter how irrelevant they really are. Liberal damage to the country? like the modest national debt before reagan and the ever increasing debt since. Seems we may be locked into a viscious cycle of ignorant fools demanding less gov't but still wanting the gov't to take care of everything they used to take care of. this is unreasonable. The other hand has a reasonable request that the ever increasing wealthy folk pay back what they have taken from the people. I personally consider what the wealth have done as wealth redistribution only in a manner that hurts everyone but the few. In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face. Diogenes Of Sinope |
skildude Send message Joined: 4 Oct 00 Posts: 9541 Credit: 50,759,529 RAC: 60 |
Your long haul trucker example is a perfect example of why the supremacy clause (and the commerce clause) was put in the constitution. If that little 3 mile section is being used to extort money from people passing through, then I would fully support the federal government stepping in and telling the state to stop doing it because it's violating the commerce clause. I don't see how the tea party can support this literal highway robbery from a state. I don't think any Interstate should be hijacked by a state and used as a tollway. If a state wants a toll way build it yourself and disassociate your road from the federally funded interstate road system. Consider Oklahoma, it has toll ways and non toll freeways. the Tollways are constantly under repair. why? because the roads were bought and paid for long ago. they need to justify their tolls in rebuilding and repairing roads that aren't old or broken. Take Texas and the North Texas Tollway system(NTTS), It has had a toll way in north Dallas for the better part of 25 years. This road again has been bought and paid for many times over. So why doesn't it revert back to a non toll road? because the NTTS creates more projects and needs the additional money to pay for the roads. Currently, the NTTS is constantly losing money because of poor project management, massive paychecks for its executives and above all poor planning. The roads they built after the North dallas tollway have been bad ideas and have few users. I'd think the people of texas would get fed up with the nonsense but governor good hair wants more of this privatization. So, you see its always a good thing to through good oney after bad. In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face. Diogenes Of Sinope |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24877 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
I can't agree. When you have a world of sheeple they need to be managed. Unfortunately we have a bad breed of sheepdogs. Good God, where's me damned pills? +1 |
skildude Send message Joined: 4 Oct 00 Posts: 9541 Credit: 50,759,529 RAC: 60 |
thank you for the diagnosis. from a 12 step program point of view please do your own 4th step and I'll keep to mine. Denial seems to run deep here. Seems that the king would like things his way because people are to stupid to know what's good for them. Seems someone was sputting this off about Dems lately. How sad that one does exactly what one accuses the other of then just blah blah blah did not DENIAL yours not mine BLAH BLAH blather and you are wrong I'm better than you because I like pain and suffering of the poor. As little as I like religion I still think its every good persons responsibility to take care of the poor, indigent, and disabled. That might seem political but its not. Churchs cannot take care of all the needs of the people. they just don't have the money. Gov'ts step in and subsidize the churches efforts. Sadly, our Gubment allows just about anyone to be a nonprofit which takes away from a non profit that does good and gives it to a nonprofit that either has high paid golfers winning its prizes or are linked to a political agenda. In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face. Diogenes Of Sinope |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Your long haul trucker example is a perfect example of why the supremacy clause (and the commerce clause) was put in the constitution. If that little 3 mile section is being used to extort money from people passing through, then I would fully support the federal government stepping in and telling the state to stop doing it because it's violating the commerce clause. I don't see how the tea party can support this literal highway robbery from a state. If the Feds paid 100%, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Aid_Highway_Act_of_1956, then you might have a point, but the states do pay part of their construction. I have yet to see a Federal Government road crew repairing and interstate highway. I see the local state crews doing that. However this is getting off the point. The point being that states already have huge powers to do underhanded government money grabs. Tea kool aid wants to give them even more. |
BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2580 Credit: 16,982,517 RAC: 0 |
One interesting thing about Grant Wood -- there is a fair amount of chatter regarding him being gay. To think this iconic image was created by him.... |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24877 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Be afraid, very afraid "The military coup... was carried out under CIA direction as an act of US foreign policy," says one excerpt". Where in the Constitution does it say that the US can dictate to the rest of the world? |
Sirius B Send message Joined: 26 Dec 00 Posts: 24877 Credit: 3,081,182 RAC: 7 |
Now now GF, you must not upset Seti's "unofficial Ombudsman". Posts must meet his criteria or else..... ...saying that, we all know what Welshmen are famous for....... |
MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes Send message Joined: 16 Jun 02 Posts: 6895 Credit: 6,588,977 RAC: 0 |
The Declaration was bold GOLDEN FO SHO. May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!! |
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