Can you quit making outrageous claims without sources and then asking me to disprove them?

Do you mean like your claim?

Because their news is more believable than any other news network in America.

I don't recall asking you to disprove anything I said. I only asked that you provide your reasoning for your claim, which you suggested was the only reasonable conclusion.

Oh, APL will make you old and grumpy ... :)

Then there's B.

Thankfully, I've been able to stay above C ;-)

You have forgotten D.

Very good...

I went over to C++ before then diving headlong into a blind alley with MSVC++ (ok, so Microsoft Windows 3.11WfW was a good idea at the time...).

I'll admit, never looked at D.


Which comes back round to ensuring programmers are at least aware of a number of different programming languages that have different philosophies and the pros/cons to go with them...

For a possible list for the different ways of programming, perhaps:


ATMEGA assembler
ARM assembler
x86_64 assembler

logo
postscript
C
C++
python
prolog
haskel
java
php
ada (especially for parallelism)
OpenCL


I think the best format would be to run through all of them in three parts: Brief introduction to the respective philosophies for how to use the languages; Brief demo of use for real world examples; More extensive use to show off strengths.


Any glaring omissions?


IT is what we make it,
Martin

What about SQL and HTML (or maybe LaTeX)?

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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

What about SQL and HTML (or maybe LaTeX)?

Good and important but also a very different way of thought from that of 'mainstream' programming languages... SQL and databases are subject in themselves!

What the hell, why not?

And LaTeX certainly deserves an awful lot more exposure than is ever normally given. Often far faster than WYSIWIG and with better results.


The important thing is to give a useful taster and to not get bogged down in arcanery...

IT is very much what we make it,
Martin

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

I see everyone is giving short shift to the required full set of knowledge to program effectively.

While a basic history of computing devices should be included, it is not required to learn how to program. What most of you are suggesting is a curriculum to learn how to hack, not program. ...

On the math side of the house you need classes in Boolean algebra, linear algebra, statistics, and numerical analysis, and of course their prerequisites, algebra and introductory calculus. An engineering calculus class by graduation if possible. ...

In their first semester ... The second semester ... Next should be a good long bit ... Next a good bit on databases, ...

It is a lot to cover and this is for a pure programming track, not even touching on system administration. Obviously that needs some attention ...

Frankly with all the specialization today, a Uni should be offering enough classes that a student could take two to three times the required number of units to graduate with a BS before getting into post graduate classes.

Phew! That sounds like most of a multiple years University degree course!

Errr... Ain't that a bit heavy for children and a Raspberry Pi?...

Which comes round to how best to teach to keep some enthusiasm going... Teaching all the "prerequisites" first, is all good and logical but can sorely try the patience of even the most devout monk.

Is not a better way to teach using multiple passes whereby all the languages are breezed over with fun examples so that the students very deliberately can "hack" in whatever fun/silly ways? Then later, once the value and interest of programming has caught those interested enough to find out further, only then introduce the prerequisites so that they can gain a deeper understanding and better proficiency and a valued appreciation of better programming.


Learning (and teaching) should be positive fun!

IT is very much what we make it,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

I've been using nroff and troff on my UNIX boxes before Donald Knuth created TeX, which I compiled on a BULL/MIPS RISC machine. He created it because he was tired of seeing typographical errors in his series "The art of computer programming". Notice the term "art", which brings us back to Rinascimento with Cimabue being the master who teaches his art to Giotto, who then overtakes his master, as reported by Dante. Programming is an art, not a science.
Tullio

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Is not a better way to teach using multiple passes whereby all the languages are breezed over with fun examples so that the students very deliberately can "hack" in whatever fun/silly ways?

Learning to print out "hello world" is NOT programming.

@Tullio - give my regards to Ed & Vi when you see them.

I am still using Vi on my Linux boxes. I printed the original docuemntation by Bill Joy of Berkeley on an Olivetti dot matrix printer using nroff.
Tullio

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A little something immersive to inspire both youngsters AND their parents?...


Why Minecraft is more than just another video game

Minecraft's creators revealed this week that the blocky freeform building game has 33 million users. It can easily become an obsession. ...

... He also hopes Minecraft can teach parents a thing or two rather than them wanting the game to teach their kids.

"If this is something your kid is passionate about you owe it to them to take an hour or two to figure it out," he says.

And that's perhaps the best thing about the game - the shared times and stories we've had playing it together. Like that time we got ambushed by a creeper, which blew up and dropped us into a cavern, and we only had one torch and had to find our way back. Or the first time we killed the Ender Dragon or the time they showed me around the giant elaborate treehouse they had built and the... Well, you get the idea.



IT is what we all make it!
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

I do play Minecraft i confess, and Mojang ought to be congratulated that with such a simple concept they've managed to create something more addictive than crack cocaine.

And if kids are spending all their time in front of the PC, at least they're not out on street corners or park benches drinking cheap cider annoying the rest of us. Then again, they're missing out on a big chunk of their education.

And it's more constructive (literally) than shooting endlessly respawning enemies in Call of Duty.

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Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

I don't play computer games, I have no psychological NEED to, I have a fulfilling social life thankyou very much. Out to dinner with 41 Club tonight.

... I have no psychological NEED to, I have a fulfilling social life thankyou very much. ...

So why you wobbling the pixels on here?!


Keep searchin',
Martin

:-)

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See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Someone has to keep the reprobates around here off the streets!!!