Argentine at it again..


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Message 1399816 - Posted: 6 Aug 2013, 21:16:04 UTC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-23596312
..."Yawn"!!...that's the only response I can come out with.


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Message 1399833 - Posted: 6 Aug 2013, 21:33:25 UTC - in response to Message 1399816.

The islanders voted overwhelmingly on a referendum held in March to remain British.

I think the only people you need to ask are the ones living there. and they clearly said NO to Argentina.
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Message 1399867 - Posted: 6 Aug 2013, 21:46:15 UTC - in response to Message 1399833.

The islanders voted overwhelmingly on a referendum held in March to remain British.

I think the only people you need to ask are the ones living there. and they clearly said NO to Argentina.

Would you say the same if the squatters were in your house?

That is essentially the issue here, except it has been going on for a very long time. They should both sue the estate of the map maker that said there were two sets of islands and collect from it.

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Message 1399906 - Posted: 7 Aug 2013, 0:48:42 UTC - in response to Message 1399867.

The islanders voted overwhelmingly on a referendum held in March to remain British.

I think the only people you need to ask are the ones living there. and they clearly said NO to Argentina.

Would you say the same if the squatters were in your house?

That is essentially the issue here, except it has been going on for a very long time. They should both sue the estate of the map maker that said there were two sets of islands and collect from it.

There are two sets of islands, Gary....East Falklands and West Falklands.
First discovered by the Portuguese, but not officially reported at that time.
Later to be rediscovered by the British 50-odd years later and named. Then later
along come the French and colonise a part of the East Falklands followed a year
later with the British colonising the West Falklands then subsequently laying
claim to the whole of the Falklands Isles on prior discovery rights. The French
later gave up their half of the Falklands to the Spanish because the Spanish
had colonised Argentina. The Spanish then assumed rights over the whole of the
Falklands Isles because they stated that it laid in Spanish waters. At best the
Spanish only ever had a claim to half of the Falkland Isles, the East Island.
Since the Falkland Islands sits 300 miles away from Argentina this claim was
a bit rich to say the least but if you accept the old ways things were done
in those times then fair enough. To accept the latter then you would have to
accept the old adage of times gone by, "Possession is 9/10th of the law and that
the British finally settle the score by kicking all off the Islands as soon
as Argentina gained independence in 1816. Argentina's claim on the Falklands
comes via the Spanish who acquired "Part" of the Falklands from the French. So
in reality Argentina can only claim sovereignty over the East Falklands but not
the West Falklands. Britain states it owns the whole of the Falklands because
it discovered the whole lot before the French plonked themselves on part of
it. The Portuguese who first discovered it aren't at all interested in these
Islands so next in line to claim them by right has to be the British...so knob-
off Argentina for the Spanish never had rights of ownership in the first place
and were not their's to pass on to you...if ever they did in the first place.
One thing for sure, France only ever knew of the Falklands once the British
had put it on the map, one thing the Portuguese failed to do officially. So the
French then colonising the East Falklands was a bit of a liberty take so at best
they were only there as visitors as far as the British were concerned. Yet this
situation was acceptable to the British at that time but what got their backs up
was when the French passed it over to the Spanish and they then kicked our
encampment off the West Falklands...the latter nearly resulting in a war
between us and the Spanish. In the end all was sorted out and we re-colonised
the West Falklands again. As it stands today, all concerned know that Argentina
can only ever gain sovereignty over the Falkland Isles if the British wish to
relinquish their rights over it. For as it currently stands, the Briitish have
the legal rights but not the Argentines....else we would have given these
Islands over to them a long time ago.

As regarding squatters in your house, this is a case of the French squatting on
our Island then passing these squatting rights over to the Spanish as ownership rights...
...no legal standing I'd say.


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Message 1399947 - Posted: 7 Aug 2013, 3:24:27 UTC - in response to Message 1399906.

Most places these days, when you know of squatters and don't throw them off you can lose possession. So way back when the French were on it and England didn't mind them being there, they lost title. Now the situation is reversed and Argentina has lost title, unless they have been attempting to get England off all along.

If you want some advice, England is going to have to keep a military presence on the islands and in the seas down there. That costs some sum of money. Perhaps Argentina is willing to shut up and cede all claims for somewhat less than that cost as a payment for say X years. Then it becomes a win win. Otherwise a decade or three down the line some more blood is going to get spilled, in the name of colonialism.


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Message 1399963 - Posted: 7 Aug 2013, 4:19:21 UTC

There are rumors of substantial oil reserves around the Falklands.
With North Sea oil reserves dwindling i can't see the UK throwing in the towel anytime soon.

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Message 1399979 - Posted: 7 Aug 2013, 5:07:58 UTC - in response to Message 1399947.

Most places these days, when you know of squatters and don't throw them off you can lose possession. So way back when the French were on it and England didn't mind them being there, they lost title. Now the situation is reversed and Argentina has lost title, unless they have been attempting to get England off all along.

If you want some advice, England is going to have to keep a military presence on the islands and in the seas down there. That costs some sum of money. Perhaps Argentina is willing to shut up and cede all claims for somewhat less than that cost as a payment for say X years. Then it becomes a win win. Otherwise a decade or three down the line some more blood is going to get spilled, in the name of colonialism.



By that reckoning Gary, The native Americans didnt throw us squatters off the land right off the bat so we have the outright claim to the US?
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Message 1399985 - Posted: 7 Aug 2013, 5:21:19 UTC - in response to Message 1399947.

Gary, one difference here -- the Argentine never had rights to the Falklands -- ever.

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Message 1400008 - Posted: 7 Aug 2013, 6:18:17 UTC - in response to Message 1399985.

Gary, one difference here -- the Argentine never had rights to the Falklands -- ever.

But they own the Malvinas lock stock and barrel.

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Message 1400010 - Posted: 7 Aug 2013, 6:24:08 UTC - in response to Message 1399963.

There are rumors of substantial oil reserves around the Falklands.
With North Sea oil reserves dwindling i can't see the UK throwing in the towel anytime soon.

Nor will Argentina for the same reason. And blood will spill.

Better to pay now, when it is a rumor than pay a much bigger price after rumor becomes fact. Or they pull some stunt at the UN getting the waters declared some sort of sanctuary preventing the extraction. Well, that would be good for global warming.

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Message 1400012 - Posted: 7 Aug 2013, 6:30:14 UTC - in response to Message 1399979.

By that reckoning Gary, The native Americans didnt throw us squatters off the land right off the bat so we have the outright claim to the US?

SCOTUS isn't buying that but there are treaties involved in the native American cases. They are making the government pay the price of the land when it was stolen plus interest, making it into an eminent domain case.

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Message 1400015 - Posted: 7 Aug 2013, 6:46:33 UTC - in response to Message 1400012.

I guess the Brits ought to consider providing aid to Paraguay so they can recover land from the Argentine as well...

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Message 1400078 - Posted: 7 Aug 2013, 10:27:23 UTC

Nick, that was one of your best posts, well done, impressed :-)

Argentina joined the UN Security Council as a non-permanent member in January.

And they are using the opportunity to bang the drum again.

Argentine President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner has restated her country's demand for sovereignty of the Falkland Islands.

That is what she is paid to do, and what she was elected for. If she didn't she'd be voted out, and she knows it.

Speaking at a United Nations Security Council meeting in New York, Ms Fernandez called on Britain to negotiate the archipelago's future.

That is of course a smoke screen to disguise the countries unstable political regime and to divert attention away from home.

"We simply want the UN resolution to be enforced, referring to UN Resolution 2065, which urged both parties in 1965 to negotiate. She said Argentina and Britain should "sit down and discuss" the matter.

We have done, and told hem that the Falkland islanders will determine their own future. End of story. They don't like what they heard so continue to push it.

If you want some advice, England is going to have to keep a military presence on the islands and in the seas down there.

You can bet your bottom Dollar that there is much more military presence down there than is ever made public. We have a number of nuclear subs at sea anywhere in the world at any one time, and other types. They can be immediately deployed to the region at short notice if tensions escalate. It is highly likely that if one Argentinian warship sticks its nose out of port 100 yards in the direction of the Falklands, part 2 of Plan A will execute.

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Message 1400111 - Posted: 7 Aug 2013, 11:57:02 UTC

Nick, that was one of your best posts, well done, impressed :-)

Thanks Chris...

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Message 1400359 - Posted: 7 Aug 2013, 23:33:34 UTC

in the name of colonialism.

Has it's good points Gary, for it's what bought the USA about in the first place.
In the process, yup, some blood was spilt there but in the end the Brits packed
their bags and came back home letting bygones be bygones. The latter being a
trait I suspect unique to just our two countries.....so it seems.


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Message 1400797 - Posted: 8 Aug 2013, 21:00:10 UTC

HMS Westminister

How about changing it's destination & crew? Crew it with all the muppets in SW1A & send it to the Falklands?

Saying that though, with Del & Nancy boys as Captain & Executive Officers it might end up at the North Pole!
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Message 1401008 - Posted: 9 Aug 2013, 10:24:00 UTC

The latter being a trait I suspect unique to just our two countries.....so it seems.

Yes it is, you are correct.

The Special Relationship is a phrase used to describe the exceptionally close political, diplomatic, cultural, economic, military and historical relations between the United Kingdom and the United States, following its use in a 1946 speech by British statesman Winston Churchill. Although both the United Kingdom and United States have close relationships with many other nations, the level of cooperation between them in economic activity, trade and commerce, military planning, execution of military operations, nuclear weapons technology, and intelligence sharing has been described as "unparalleled" among major powers.

The United Kingdom and United States have been close allies in numerous military and political conflicts including World War I, World War II, the Korean War, the Cold War, the Gulf War, and the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan in the 21st century.


Americas entry into WWII in Europe undoubtedly saved many thousands of allied lives, and ended the war earlier than it would have done otherwise.


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Message 1401051 - Posted: 9 Aug 2013, 13:49:37 UTC - in response to Message 1401008.

Americas entry into WWII in Europe undoubtedly saved many thousands of allied lives, and ended the war earlier than it would have done otherwise.

Might have changed what language you speak as well.

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Message 1402574 - Posted: 13 Aug 2013, 10:48:32 UTC

I see Fernandez got a good kicking in the mid term elections, but unfortunately will still hang on till end of her term.

Analysis: Argentina's Fernandez weakened by vote but still in charge

(Reuters) - Argentine President Cristina Fernandez may be a lame duck after her coalition was thumped in a mid-term primary election, but with two years left in power she can still impose more of the capital and currency controls that have cut confidence in Latin America's No. 3 economy.

Fernandez's candidates won just 26 percent of the nationwide vote in Sunday's primary, much less than expected, and her hand-picked congressional candidate lost in the must-win province of Buenos Aires, home to 40 percent of the country's electorate.

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Message 1402580 - Posted: 13 Aug 2013, 11:46:16 UTC - in response to Message 1401008.

Americas entry into WWII in Europe undoubtedly saved many thousands of allied lives, and ended the war earlier than it would have done otherwise.

America's entry was also timed rather well to coincide with Russia's convergence on Berlin.
American military support of Russia is what helped defeat the Nazi's.
Russian strength of will defeated the Nazi's.
To say that many thousands of allied lives were saved only discounts the number of Americans who did die.
The Commonwealth has served the British rather well.

I look forward to OWG.
All this Bull Crap about national borders and disputes over treaties is ... Bull Crap.
As a Setizen i expect that any ET would prefer to talk with OWG.

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