Maybe the question is not about credits but if Boinc is simply broken. The original premise for this type of shared computing was "spare" time on your pc. To share your pc, along with many others to create this huge system of computational power. As long as this has been around there are still problems all over the place and there just shouldn't be. The credit system should not even be an issue anymore but it is so varied that fairness has not evolved. All credit is supposed to be is a reflection of the computational power that has been offered to the project, nothing more. If I give $3.00 for a gallon of milk, my receipt should say $3.00, not $.50 nor $10.00. We all know this does not happen. If you have been doing this awhile you know that you bring a lot more power to the table than 10 years ago and GPU's have pushed that right thru the roof. With that, the credit should be reflected in turn.
With the evolution of the professional cruncher, one that purchases and uses equipment for full time crunching, the credits create endless statistics that keep us involved. The pursuit of milestones, either singular or from group efforts. You can say it is the science, an accurate statement on it's own but the credits reflect that science and are therefore an important component. When the individuals that freely offer the use of their machines to these projects are not seeing the only thing that reflects said use, we lose participation. What would it take to put the credit issue to bed once and for all?

---

There is no question.
CreditNew is broken.

Than answer to the issue is simpler than some would realize.

Just put it to bed.

It's done now. I has settled. It shall not ever return as many creds as it once did.

Over, done now, done hashing it over.

And frankly, I am very tired of the certain threads continuing to bitch about it.

I really am.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

Nope it's not over, I want proper credits for my/our work... ;)

Nope it's not over, I want proper credits for my/our work... ;)

Oh man, I bet you want Skåne, Blekinge, Halland, and Bohuslän, back too. :-)

Why not, it would only be proper. haha

Nope it's not over, I want proper credits for my/our work... ;)

Go away.

Cred are NOT the answer.

I want some.......but it is NOT the ultimate.

Fine another planet to qvetch on............frankly, I am very tired of it.

get on with life as we know it now.

simple folks want more creds/

I am one of the highest earners here, and you do not see ME arguing about it now, do you?

Stifle it, Edith,.



Just stifle it.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

What would it take to put the credit issue to bed once and for all?

Have you read this CreditNew thread? With particular attention to the messages where people who have direct contact with Dr. David Anderson, who runs both BOINC and Seti@Home, have reported that Dr. Anderson is satisfied that CreditNew is operating as it was designed to operate, and that NO changes to it are planned.

Like it or not, CreditNew is what we have. Dr. Anderson's contact info is available from either the Seti@Home or BOINC homepages. Make your case directly to him. You waste your time complaining about it here.

---

Donald
Infernal Optimist / Submariner, retired

What would it take to put the credit issue to bed once and for all?

Have you read this CreditNew thread? With particular attention to the messages where people who have direct contact with Dr. David Anderson, who runs both BOINC and Seti@Home, have reported that Dr. Anderson is satisfied that CreditNew is operating as it was designed to operate, and that NO changes to it are planned.

Like it or not, CreditNew is what we have. Dr. Anderson's contact info is available from either the Seti@Home or BOINC homepages. Make your case directly to him. You waste your time complaining about it here.

Yes, some people are being blamed for CreditNew that are totally innocent of the charges.

CreditNew is Dr Anderson's personal pet and no one else other than Dr Anderson has anything to do with it, so there is only 1 person to complain at so please vent an email to that 1 person as complaining here is just plain pointless.

Cheers.

Go away.

Cred are NOT the answer.

I want some.......but it is NOT the ultimate.

Fine another planet to qvetch on............frankly, I am very tired of it.

get on with life as we know it now.

simple folks want more creds/

I am one of the highest earners here, and you do not see ME arguing about it now, do you?

Stifle it, Edith,.



Just stifle it.

YOU go away, no have appointed you the king of the forum.

Mark, Sten... love you guys to bits but can't understand why you've got your panties in a twist on this one:)

If credit is being reported correctly and it's just low then yeah, it's time to move on. But if it isn't being reported correctly it's worth troubleshooting, right?

Mark, it's no different to your kill-a-watt. You want that to read correctly don't you?

What would it take to put the credit issue to bed once and for all?

Have you read this CreditNew thread? With particular attention to the messages where people who have direct contact with Dr. David Anderson, who runs both BOINC and Seti@Home, have reported that Dr. Anderson is satisfied that CreditNew is operating as it was designed to operate, and that NO changes to it are planned.

Like it or not, CreditNew is what we have. Dr. Anderson's contact info is available from either the Seti@Home or BOINC homepages. Make your case directly to him. You waste your time complaining about it here.

+1

What would it take to put the credit issue to bed once and for all?

Have you read this CreditNew thread? With particular attention to the messages where people who have direct contact with Dr. David Anderson, who runs both BOINC and Seti@Home, have reported that Dr. Anderson is satisfied that CreditNew is operating as it was designed to operate, and that NO changes to it are planned.

Like it or not, CreditNew is what we have. Dr. Anderson's contact info is available from either the Seti@Home or BOINC homepages. Make your case directly to him. You waste your time complaining about it here.

Yes, some people are being blamed for CreditNew that are totally innocent of the charges.

CreditNew is Dr Anderson's personal pet and no one else other than Dr Anderson has anything to do with it, so there is only 1 person to complain at so please vent an email to that 1 person as complaining here is just plain pointless.

Cheers.

+2

As mark said, the Credit system is broken. If people stop complaining about it then they are tacitly accepting it and nothing will ever get done to fix it.

Dr Anderson appears to be "toughing it out" and hoping that it goes away.

It's always hard to "kill someone's puppy" and Dr Anderson would have to admit that his "puppy" needs radical surgery or be put down. I don't think he is capable of admitting that the system is broken, nor has the desire to investigate why the credit system is behaving in the manner that it is.

---

As mark said, the Credit system is broken. If people stop complaining about it then they are tacitly accepting it and nothing will ever get done to fix it.

Dr Anderson appears to be "toughing it out" and hoping that it goes away.

It's always hard to "kill someone's puppy" and Dr Anderson would have to admit that his "puppy" needs radical surgery or be put down. I don't think he is capable of admitting that the system is broken, nor has the desire to investigate why the credit system is behaving in the manner that it is.

I disagree Lionel. Dr Anderson doesn't pay attention to these forums. If you want him to pay attention, contact him directly.

---

As mark said, the Credit system is broken. If people stop complaining about it then they are tacitly accepting it and nothing will ever get done to fix it.

Dr Anderson appears to be "toughing it out" and hoping that it goes away.

It's always hard to "kill someone's puppy" and Dr Anderson would have to admit that his "puppy" needs radical surgery or be put down. I don't think he is capable of admitting that the system is broken, nor has the desire to investigate why the credit system is behaving in the manner that it is.

Lionel, what part of the statement "Dr. Anderson has said he is satisfied that CreditNew is operating as designed, and there are NO changes planned" do you not understand? He's not "toughing it out", he's satisfied it is working the way he WANTS it to work. As you have been told repeatedly, if you don't agree, make your case directly to him.

---

Donald
Infernal Optimist / Submariner, retired

And if enough of the harpies write to Dr. A crying that it isnt fair. He just might fix it. But not the way you hope he would.

He might just go back to the old way. Crunch one you get one credit. So your old single core P4 takes 8 hours to crunch one. Thats what you get. While the over clocked 4 cores running HT and two GPUs blast them out like theres no tomorrow. Is that what you want?

So go ahead e-mail Dr. A to your hearts content.

---

[/quote]

Old James

And if enough of the harpies write to Dr. A crying that it isnt fair. He just might fix it. But not the way you hope he would.

He might just go back to the old way. Crunch one you get one credit. So your old single core P4 takes 8 hours to crunch one. Thats what you get. While the over clocked 4 cores running HT and two GPUs blast them out like theres no tomorrow. Is that what you want?

So go ahead e-mail Dr. A to your hearts content.

I did prefer the old way of counting tasks and having an average processing time. In the classic days I felt breaking below the 10Hr mark with the volume of tasks I was doing was a great achievement!

He did say something when project admins were initially complaining about creditnew if they had any ideas on how to correct the short term issues he would listen. As there is still an issue with short term credit it would seem no one provided him with sufficient information on how to "fix" it.

<ramble>
When I see people write statements like "computers are faster & should be given more credit" I just shake my head at how silly & invalid their statement is. Faster computers gain more credit by doing more work in a given time than older ones.

I think their original idea of the credit system so that projects could be directly compared to one another was a nice idea. It has snowballed far beyond that. Some projects have opted not to use the new system & others would adjust the amount of credit they paid to attract people. So the credits in scientific terms have less value than the weight of the electrons it takes to store them.

Probably the only way to have a consistent measure of performance across projects would be for science apps to be submitting to the BOINC dev team for evaluation. Then get some sort of value assigned to them. Then a projects credit would be based on the benchmark value of the application which would be assigned by a system in the BOINC dev group.
Right away I can think of several problems that would need to be worked out. So I know it isn't THE answer, but maybe people that know more could use it in some way.
</ramble>

---

SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours
Join the [url=http://tinyurl.com/8y46zvu]BP6/VP6 User Group[

Mark, Sten... love you guys to bits but can't understand why you've got your panties in a twist on this one:)

If credit is being reported correctly and it's just low then yeah, it's time to move on. But if it isn't being reported correctly it's worth troubleshooting, right?

Mark, it's no different to your kill-a-watt. You want that to read correctly don't you?

Seti creds are NOT a wattmeter.
I have several of them, and they read quite accurately.
What I shall reiterate is that I, being one of the top Seti performers, don't really care if CreditNew sux or not.

It is NOT a wattmeter. Nor is it perhaps accurate.

I don't care if the instrument is broken or miscalibrated.

It is what it is.

And as to who knighted me king?

LOL.....most of you did.

---

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

I think some here has missed the point entirely.. Running seti or any other project on your pc in its spare time is entirely voluntary. Personally, I don't care if my RAC IS 3 or 3,000,000. That is not why I joined. My desktop may not be the fastest, or the slowest <for that matter It has a newer cpu as of yesterday>; I joined to help find the intigent life that obvously isn't on that planet. For those who want a yard stick, grab a shovel, dig a hole & sooner or later your measuring tape will be too small or you will arive in China <no offence to any chinese readers of this post>. If your want credit, go sit an exam & put the result in your c.v

---

A city destroyed by an earthquake is an opportunity to Rebuild, redeign & make it a better place to be. Better, stronger, faster like the 6 Million Dollar Man

(Yes this is duplicated from the other thread-but then again it is a duplicate thread about Credit issues)

Ok please stop. DA runs the BOINC platform which grants credits overall not Seti..maybe you should go to the BOINC forums. Dr Korpela has no control over DA's actions.

Either post here or please email DA directly.

Thank you

---

Locked for now - this thread has degenerated into a flame thread.
Cool off, and read the other threads on the same subject, then vent your feelings in the right direction - noting that SETI@Home is a user of the "New Credits" system which is part of the BOINC system, and the S&H developers have only minimal input or control over that separate development.

---

Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?