Very sad times

Message boards : Politics : Very sad times
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

1 · 2 · Next

AuthorMessage
Profile Intelligent Design
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Apr 12
Posts: 3626
Credit: 37,520
RAC: 0
United States
Message 1391631 - Posted: 17 Jul 2013, 14:47:55 UTC

Why not a floating museum?

My father was in tears when the U.S.S. New Jersey was decommissioned.

I'm sorry for your loss.
Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...
ID: 1391631 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1391640 - Posted: 17 Jul 2013, 15:24:50 UTC

Better you see the inside or her like that, rather than like this:

ID: 1391640 · Report as offensive
Profile Intelligent Design
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Apr 12
Posts: 3626
Credit: 37,520
RAC: 0
United States
Message 1391674 - Posted: 17 Jul 2013, 16:43:38 UTC - in response to Message 1391646.  

Thankyou ID. Many many people in the UK are very angry at her fate, many years before she could have served out her operational life. And yes, she could have been a floating museum, a fitting end to her service. If I ever meet certain people face to face they will regret it, I can promise you that.


+1
Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...
ID: 1391674 · Report as offensive
Profile The Simonator
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 18 Nov 04
Posts: 5700
Credit: 3,855,702
RAC: 50
United Kingdom
Message 1405551 - Posted: 20 Aug 2013, 14:01:29 UTC

Gives them chance to start work on the sixth Ark Royal.
Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.
ID: 1405551 · Report as offensive
Profile Bill Walker
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 4 Sep 99
Posts: 3868
Credit: 2,697,267
RAC: 0
Canada
Message 1405556 - Posted: 20 Aug 2013, 14:31:47 UTC

You can't save them all Chris, there isn't enough time or money or dock space. You could publish equally "upsetting" (to somebody) photos of planes, tanks, truck, fire engines, train locomotives, etc. being recycled. I felt a few moments sadness when the last drafting machines left my place of employment back in the 1980s. Where are the drafting machines and slide rules that laid out the lines of the Ark Royal? Why weren't they saved? Where does this stop?

As for the MOD people being ashamed, you should be asking did they get a fair price for the scrap metal? That is what you pay them to do.

How much are you willing to pay in extra taxes to save and maintain the old hardware? I spend a lot of time tracking down "preserved" ex-military aircraft, and often find them disolving in the weeds somewhere because they were "saved" by somebody who didn't understand the upkeep process and costs. That is probably sadder than knowing the airplane had been recycled into something useful.

ID: 1405556 · Report as offensive
Profile MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 Jun 02
Posts: 6895
Credit: 6,588,977
RAC: 0
United States
Message 1405559 - Posted: 20 Aug 2013, 14:43:57 UTC

Very sad times

Yes, These are Sad Times for Chris S.

He has Gone Posting Mad.

Better if He had Gone Fishing.

Ripping The Lips out of da Fisheees is So Calming.

PO Fisheees.

FO SHO.

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
ID: 1405559 · Report as offensive
Profile Bill Walker
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 4 Sep 99
Posts: 3868
Credit: 2,697,267
RAC: 0
Canada
Message 1405610 - Posted: 20 Aug 2013, 19:34:41 UTC - in response to Message 1405595.  

And Navy experts say they could have done with a carrier and Harriers in recent Med area conflicts, rather than sending planes from Scotland.




They always want more Chris. I rephrase the question: how much more tax are you willing to pay to avoid repeating your humiliating defeat in the recent Med area conflict?

Also, which Med area conflict was that? I guess I missed the humiliating defeat bit.

ID: 1405610 · Report as offensive
Profile Bill Walker
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 4 Sep 99
Posts: 3868
Credit: 2,697,267
RAC: 0
Canada
Message 1405921 - Posted: 21 Aug 2013, 12:17:57 UTC - in response to Message 1405877.  

The med conflict I meant was Libya. The Ark Royal and Harriers were decommissioned on 11th March 2011, UK military action started on 19th March 2011.

I guess I missed the humiliating defeat bit.

Me too.



My point being, did your military really NEED Harriers and carriers, or did they just WANT Harriers and carriers?

ID: 1405921 · Report as offensive
Sirius B Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Dec 00
Posts: 24877
Credit: 3,081,182
RAC: 7
Ireland
Message 1405923 - Posted: 21 Aug 2013, 12:19:15 UTC - in response to Message 1405921.  

The med conflict I meant was Libya. The Ark Royal and Harriers were decommissioned on 11th March 2011, UK military action started on 19th March 2011.

I guess I missed the humiliating defeat bit.

Me too.



My point being, did your military really NEED Harriers and carriers, or did they just WANT Harriers and carriers?


Falklands proved that point.
ID: 1405923 · Report as offensive
Profile Bill Walker
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 4 Sep 99
Posts: 3868
Credit: 2,697,267
RAC: 0
Canada
Message 1405930 - Posted: 21 Aug 2013, 12:28:03 UTC

Historically, a lot of time, money and lives have been wasted by militaries that prepared for the last war. The successful ones are planning for the next war.

The root cause for Argentina's defeat in the Falklands is that their policy makers undertook actions that their military could not support. The UK has to decide if the Falkands is still defensible, given the budget realities the UK faces now and in the future.

Back to my question that nobody wants to answer: how much more tax are you willing to pay to keep Harriers and carriers? (Hint: remember that in a democracy you need a majority of voters to agree on your answer to this question.)

ID: 1405930 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1406092 - Posted: 21 Aug 2013, 19:19:25 UTC - in response to Message 1406087.  

It has been decided that future wars will be fought with a coalition of nations against a common enemy, you will never see another Falklands again.

So Argentina is free to move in ....
And Spain can as well ....


ID: 1406092 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1406108 - Posted: 21 Aug 2013, 20:21:42 UTC - in response to Message 1406097.  

Oi! that is not what I intimated.

Careful choice of words goes a long way. So does careful planing at the country level.

ID: 1406108 · Report as offensive
Profile Bill Walker
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 4 Sep 99
Posts: 3868
Credit: 2,697,267
RAC: 0
Canada
Message 1406190 - Posted: 21 Aug 2013, 23:33:39 UTC

I think Chris meant "you will never see an exact repeat of the Falklands again". The Argentineans could be plotting their next move as we speak, but things have changed.

Chris makes two good points. Satellite surveillance (now a multi-nation undertaking) goes a long way to making an exact repeat of the Falklands much less likely.

Future conflicts are very likely to be multi-national. Like Libya, and Bosnia, and Afghanistan, and.... If you wanted to keep friends on your side for future Falkland-like events, you might consider helping your allies in cases where your short-term national objectives are a little fuzzy. Like British troops in Iraq for example. Or Canadian troops in Afghanistan.

Both these points are good reasons to scrap the carriers and Harriers and spend your limited money elsewhere. Canada scrapped our last carrier in 1970, we got over it.


ID: 1406190 · Report as offensive
Profile Bill Walker
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 4 Sep 99
Posts: 3868
Credit: 2,697,267
RAC: 0
Canada
Message 1406419 - Posted: 22 Aug 2013, 12:36:04 UTC - in response to Message 1406338.  

It was a pure political decision to save money and nothing else.


The main reason for the downfall of the old Soviet Empire was their allowing the military and its supporting industries to make economic decisions without political oversight. We might soon say the same about the downfall of the US Empire.

British troops in Iraq was as the result of Bush pulling the old pals act with the UK, saying we are going in anyway despite the UN saying no, and we "expect" you to join us. Hinting that it might change the special relationship if we refused. But yes it was fuzzy.


Yeah, Bush tried that on Canada as well. We said no, assuming we had earned enough points elsewhere to handle future situations. But then, we don't have a crumbling overseas empire to hold on to. Time will tell if we were right.


ID: 1406419 · Report as offensive
Nick
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 11 Oct 11
Posts: 4344
Credit: 3,313,107
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 1406423 - Posted: 22 Aug 2013, 12:43:35 UTC

Yeah, Bush tried that on Canada as well. We said no, assuming we had earned enough points elsewhere to handle future situations. But then, we don't have a crumbling overseas empire to hold on to. Time will tell if we were right.

Thankfully ours has gone now, less cost to the exchequer.

The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
ID: 1406423 · Report as offensive
Sirius B Project Donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 26 Dec 00
Posts: 24877
Credit: 3,081,182
RAC: 7
Ireland
Message 1406683 - Posted: 22 Aug 2013, 21:07:50 UTC - in response to Message 1406564.  

We erred on the side of caution.


Who is we? Don't you mean the politicians erred on the side of caution?

Remember I did mention Willie Vague elsewhere sometime ago regarding Syria.

That is going to cost us if the UK gets involved militariy.

If Obama wants it to be a red ine, let the States handle it.
ID: 1406683 · Report as offensive
Profile James Sotherden
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 May 99
Posts: 10436
Credit: 110,373,059
RAC: 54
United States
Message 1406773 - Posted: 23 Aug 2013, 6:17:17 UTC
Last modified: 23 Aug 2013, 6:17:41 UTC

I think some nations should have an aircraft carrier or two. Free trade depends on having shipping going to and fro with no worrys of pirates or outright hostile acts by another nation.

And speaking of pirates. That prblem could be solved by going back to the tried and true use of convoys. Something you Brits started back in WW1 for the U- boats.

I think the Somalian pirates would not want to tackel any frigate or destroyer on patrol. And if they did They should be blasted out of the water.

Canada made the right choice on not having a carrier. I think the UK still needs them. France has one now. And China has one they are finding out what they can do with. I think they will improve on that Russian one they have now, and build a lot more. And thats what worries me.
[/quote]

Old James
ID: 1406773 · Report as offensive
Profile ML1
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 20147
Credit: 7,508,002
RAC: 20
United Kingdom
Message 1406842 - Posted: 23 Aug 2013, 11:06:27 UTC - in response to Message 1405930.  

Historically, a lot of time, money and lives have been wasted by militaries that prepared for the last war. The successful ones are planning for the next war. ...

Unfortunately, war and especially the threat of war has historically been the most often used form of politics. Our recent times of long term comparative peace in Europe is something that is new...

The best of politics is in how to use the available tools to avoid going to war and yet maintain influence...


The world is what we make it...
Martin

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
ID: 1406842 · Report as offensive
Profile ML1
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Nov 01
Posts: 20147
Credit: 7,508,002
RAC: 20
United Kingdom
Message 1406844 - Posted: 23 Aug 2013, 11:08:22 UTC

Sad but times move on...


Back to the future - The shipping gallery which lives on in time and space

The Science Museum is transforming its largest exhibition space into a new gallery dedicated to the information technology revolution.

The exhibition will replace the museum's Shipping Galleries which closed last year after almost 50 years.

Here, Science Museum staff describe how the outgoing collection has been captured using 3D laser technology, and how the new exhibition, Information Age, is coming together.

Video Journalist: Neil Bowdler



The world is very much what we make it...
Martin

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)
ID: 1406844 · Report as offensive
Profile Bill Walker
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 4 Sep 99
Posts: 3868
Credit: 2,697,267
RAC: 0
Canada
Message 1406975 - Posted: 23 Aug 2013, 16:18:03 UTC

Try to keep up boys. Pirate activity off the east of Africa is at a multi-year low. Not because of carriers or convoys, but because of:

satellite production and exchange of information between nations;

multi-national cooperation with small, cost effective surface vessels, helicopters and UAVs (some military, some police, some private);

and political/economic actions at the root causes- i.e. court convictions and addressing poverty and political stability in east Africa.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/01/opinion/global/shutting-down-the-piracy-business.html?_r=0

There are lessons in all this. As I said before, you need to prepare for the next war, not the last one.

ID: 1406975 · Report as offensive
1 · 2 · Next

Message boards : Politics : Very sad times


 
©2024 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.