London Shard and other protests


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Message 1389745 - Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 12:48:08 UTC

Misguided women endangering their own lives, it won't change anything.

Shard protest

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Message 1389752 - Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 13:36:09 UTC - in response to Message 1389745.
Last modified: 11 Jul 2013, 14:10:28 UTC

Misguided women endangering their own lives, it won't change anything.

Shard protest

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It already has changed things... They are in the news and dragging the fossils along with them...

I like their reasoning for the Shard being modeled after a shard of (melting) ice, and the location being in the centre of a number of fossils main offices.

Hopefully good and thoughtful publicity all round.


The Shard should gain some good publicity also depending on how they play their game. In contrast, I suspect EDF[*] are still blackened from their punitive very heavy handed arrogant bullying of the Nottinghamshire power station protestors...


All on our only one planet,
Martin


* EDF lawsuit could have HUGE impact on peaceful protests

Activists claim police siding with power company EDF in lawsuit

Climate activists receive sentences for gas-fired power station occupation

Sixteen activists get community service and five receive conditional discharges on aggravated trespass charges

... In March, after a public backlash, EDF abandoned a civil lawsuit seeking £5m in damages from the protesters. An online petition launched by the parents of one of the activists attracted 64,000 signatures, including those of Richard Dawkins, Mark Ruffalo, Naomi Klein and Noam Chomsky. Several hundred apparent EDF customers claimed they had switched their energy provider. EDF said it dropped the civil action as part of a settlement with the protesters, who agreed to accept a permanent injunction preventing them from entering EDF sites. ...



All an example of the law being used and abused by whoever can affort the lawyers?
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Message 1389773 - Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 14:46:37 UTC

It already has changed things... They are in the news and dragging the fossils along with them...

Rubbish! It is a symbolic gesture and nothing else. They personally will go down in history as the ones that did it, and good luck to them. Meanwhile how much is it costing to to have the police, fire, and Ambulance on standby below?

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Message 1389822 - Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 17:07:56 UTC - in response to Message 1389773.

It already has changed things... They are in the news and dragging the fossils along with them...

Rubbish! It is a symbolic gesture and nothing else. They personally will go down in history as the ones that did it, and good luck to them. Meanwhile how much is it costing to to have the police, fire, and Ambulance on standby below?


I'm sure they said the same of Emmeline Pankhurst.
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Message 1390121 - Posted: 12 Jul 2013, 14:49:38 UTC

They made it, in true British Style:


Shard climb protest: Greenpeace activists in custody

... At the summit of skyscraper two of them unfurled a blue flag with Save the Arctic written on it.

The Shard is 1,016ft high (310m) and has 87 storeys.

The women evaded security guards to begin their climb in the early morning.

They said the protest was intended to put Shell and other oil companies in the spotlight and they live streamed the stunt. ...



Looks like some good publicity for the Shard and its facilities also!

(All in very stark contrast to the abusive punitive stance seen from the fossil fuels and power industries...)


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Message 1390134 - Posted: 12 Jul 2013, 15:16:16 UTC

I'm sure they said the same of Emmeline Pankhurst.

Perhaps you would like to explain to me, just what exactly Emmeline Pankhurst who was a Women's rights campaigner, has to do with Greenpeace who are campaigning about the environment? Perhaps you should have chucked in Emily Davison for good measure. Just because they were all women does not make your comment sustainable.

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Message 1390396 - Posted: 13 Jul 2013, 12:48:18 UTC - in response to Message 1390134.

I'm sure they said the same of Emmeline Pankhurst.

Perhaps you would like to explain to me, just what exactly Emmeline Pankhurst who was a Women's rights campaigner, has to do with Greenpeace who are campaigning about the environment? Perhaps you should have chucked in Emily Davison for good measure. Just because they were all women does not make your comment sustainable.


Was not saying she had anything to do with Greenpeace. Was saying that comments like "It is a symbolic gesture and nothing else" were likely said when she was campaigning. The point was that there will always be naysayers of any protest, though they are not always correct in the estimation of the outcome of the protest.
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Message 1402600 - Posted: 13 Aug 2013, 14:13:50 UTC

Shame someone didn't 'accidentally' open a window and knock one of them off. Would have made the day much more entertaining.
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Message 1402663 - Posted: 13 Aug 2013, 18:28:20 UTC

Or poured Superglue onto the glass just ahead of them. Amusing, but in a different manner...
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Message 1402755 - Posted: 13 Aug 2013, 21:07:45 UTC - in response to Message 1402663.

There's always got to be one or two infantile silly quips. Sorry, but "silly" doesn't equate to "amusing".


So your great achievement is other than adding to the trash on our planet is?...

Hopefully the Shard stunt will awaken a few more people to the state of play with "Big Oil"...


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Message 1402820 - Posted: 13 Aug 2013, 23:12:37 UTC

Hopefully the Shard stunt will awaken a few more people to the state of play with "Big Oil"...

You've just said it, it was a "stunt" not a serious meaningful protest. It might have been for those individuals taking part, not to the rest of us.

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Message 1402844 - Posted: 13 Aug 2013, 23:52:25 UTC - in response to Message 1402820.

Hopefully the Shard stunt will awaken a few more people to the state of play with "Big Oil"...

You've just said it, it was a "stunt" not a serious meaningful protest. It might have been for those individuals taking part, not to the rest of us.


Stunt2
noun
1. a performance displaying a person's skill or dexterity, as in athletics; feat: an acrobatic stunt.
2. any remarkable feat performed chiefly to attract attention: The kidnapping was said to be a publicity stunt.

source

Not sure that "stunts" and "serious meaningful protests" are mutually incompatible, quite the contrary if one considers Mark Thomas serious.
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Message 1402847 - Posted: 13 Aug 2013, 23:57:04 UTC

Mark Thomas is a known activist and fringe comedian.

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Message 1403045 - Posted: 14 Aug 2013, 11:35:01 UTC - in response to Message 1402755.

So your great achievement is other than adding to the trash on our planet is?...

I invented an anti-cancer drug currently in stage 2 clinical trials, which if passed safe and released to the medical world could cut death rates from breast cancer by a third.
So what's your great achievement?
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Message 1403061 - Posted: 14 Aug 2013, 12:46:34 UTC - in response to Message 1403045.

So your great achievement is other than adding to the trash on our planet is?...

I invented an anti-cancer drug currently in stage 2 clinical trials, which if passed safe and released to the medical world could cut death rates from breast cancer by a third.

Very good and good luck for the outcome.


So what's your great achievement?

Sorry, too modest to say. Hopefully I've helped to improve our world a little for everyone.


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Message 1403067 - Posted: 14 Aug 2013, 13:23:45 UTC

Gandhi hunger strikes were a symbolic gesture.
The Boston tea party was a symbolic gesture.
Standing in front of tanks at Tiananmen Square was a symbolic gesture.
Protests at Tahrir in Egypt were a symbolic gesture.
Rosa Parks sitting in the front of the bus was a symbolic gesture.

Symbolic Gestures can and have changed the world.
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Message 1403126 - Posted: 14 Aug 2013, 17:31:13 UTC

Yes some of them have, but I still think the Shard one won't be seen in that way in the future. I am happy to be proved wrong, and if I am I will say so.

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Message 1403259 - Posted: 14 Aug 2013, 23:59:23 UTC - in response to Message 1403126.

Yes some of them have, but I still think the Shard one won't be seen in that way in the future. I am happy to be proved wrong, and if I am I will say so.

You may well be right, though even if you are, does that mean the participants should not have bothered?
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Message 1403391 - Posted: 15 Aug 2013, 10:18:12 UTC

You may well be right, though even if you are, does that mean the participants should not have bothered?

Ah, an intuitive intelligent comment at last!

I don't think that they shouldn't have done it, it was a symbolic gesture and fair enough. For them it was also a personal challenge, and within their own movement they will go down in history as heroes. Foolhardy heroes maybe.

The fact that it won't make any difference still needs to be accepted, by them and everybody else, which it isn't. That is the point I am making. If I was ever to meet anyone of them I would say "Well done, I wouldn't have had the guts to do it. If you are sure that it was worthwhile and it will make a difference, then I am glad that you are happy about it."


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Message 1403404 - Posted: 15 Aug 2013, 11:06:43 UTC - in response to Message 1403391.
Last modified: 15 Aug 2013, 11:07:23 UTC

You may well be right, though even if you are, does that mean the participants should not have bothered?

Ah, an intuitive intelligent comment at last!

I don't think that they shouldn't have done it, it was a symbolic gesture and fair enough. For them it was also a personal challenge, and within their own movement they will go down in history as heroes. Foolhardy heroes maybe.

The fact that it won't make any difference still needs to be accepted, by them and everybody else, which it isn't. That is the point I am making. If I was ever to meet anyone of them I would say "Well done, I wouldn't have had the guts to do it. If you are sure that it was worthwhile and it will make a difference, then I am glad that you are happy about it."

The fact is there are no crystal balls, so there's no need for everybody to accept your view. The demonstrators may have a different idea of what success means, and the fact that this thread exists and remains active a month later is a sign that they have already made some difference.

As a result of our action, 50,000 extra people have joined up to the campaign.

source.
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