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Message 1385526 - Posted: 28 Jun 2013, 20:01:39 UTC

I tend to agree with you. This guy should be considered a whistle blower and protected for showing us what our gov't is wasting its money on.
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Message 1385539 - Posted: 28 Jun 2013, 20:50:46 UTC

No disagreement here.
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Message 1385571 - Posted: 28 Jun 2013, 21:55:54 UTC

Well said, Mark.



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Message 1385582 - Posted: 28 Jun 2013, 22:30:46 UTC - in response to Message 1385526.

I tend to agree with you. This guy should be considered a whistle blower and protected for showing us what our gov't is wasting its money on.



I think it's more important for us citizens to know how badly the government is spying on us. Governments, by default, waste money in pathetic amounts all the time, so it's to be expected.
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Message 1385603 - Posted: 29 Jun 2013, 0:33:43 UTC - in response to Message 1385582.

I think it's more important for us citizens to know how badly the government is spying on us. Governments, by default, waste money in pathetic amounts all the time, so it's to be expected.

I would agree with your first statement if the word "badly" was changed to how much.
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Message 1385688 - Posted: 29 Jun 2013, 5:03:50 UTC

If Mr. Snowden had just disclosed that there was a program, I could tend to agree that he was a whistle-blower, but he didn't. He went further and disclosed operational details, sufficient to devise methods to evade the web of capture.

The existance of the program wasn't even really secret, far to many low level phone techs knew of it and they weren't keeping their mouths shut; perhaps only the full scope was not generally known.

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Message 1386848 - Posted: 2 Jul 2013, 18:58:27 UTC

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/02/ecuador-president-helping-snowden-was-a-mistake/#ixzz2XuqVRDR5 wrote:
Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa told the Associated Press Sunday that helping leaker Edward Snowden secure passage from Hong Kong was a mistake.

Did the USA get to Ecuador? So what does this mean for Assange?

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Message 1386954 - Posted: 3 Jul 2013, 0:55:17 UTC - in response to Message 1386848.
Last modified: 3 Jul 2013, 1:04:21 UTC

Snowden is not on the plane, AFP reports

AFP are reporting that Austrian foreign ministry officials have confirmed Edward Snowden is not on the plane.

The report continues:

"President Morales will leave early Wednesday morning for La Paz," the Bolivian capital, ministry spokesman Alexander Schallenberg told AFP. Austria did not know why Morales's plane had landed there, he added.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/03/edward-snowden-asylum-live

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Message 1386969 - Posted: 3 Jul 2013, 1:22:29 UTC - in response to Message 1386954.

Portugal a lap dog of the USA?

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Message 1387126 - Posted: 3 Jul 2013, 9:42:20 UTC
Last modified: 3 Jul 2013, 9:42:41 UTC

I am not American. But I read the NY Times, the best paper in the world. I've read and printed an OP-ED article, titled The Criminal N.S.A, on June 27.
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Message 1387434 - Posted: 3 Jul 2013, 22:48:33 UTC

Considering very real world events, not sure how this one should be viewed...


Play the Snowden flights boardgame: Avoid going directly to Jail

If Vladimir Putin is to be believed, the PRISM whistleblower Edward Snowden is considering his options from the transit capsule hotel at Moscow’s Sheremetyevo International Airport...

... Aeroflot's Moscow-Havana flight would normally pass right over Florida, and you can bet that the TSA would either refuse permission to such a flight carrying an Edward Snowden, or warn the Russians that the flight might be forced down. ...

... So how can Snowden fly out of Moscow without ruffling feathers?...

... Planes can do what Snowden needs - there just aren't any planes scheduled to do those things. ...



All a political game of sacrificial pawns?

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Message 1388254 - Posted: 6 Jul 2013, 7:10:26 UTC - in response to Message 1387434.


Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela, President Nicolás Maduro Says

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Message 1388422 - Posted: 6 Jul 2013, 23:45:42 UTC - in response to Message 1387434.

Considering very real world events, not sure how this one should be viewed...


Play the Snowden flights boardgame: Avoid going directly to Jail

If Vladimir Putin is to be believed, the PRISM whistleblower Edward Snowden is considering his options from the transit capsule hotel at Moscow’s Sheremetyevo International Airport...

... Aeroflot's Moscow-Havana flight would normally pass right over Florida, and you can bet that the TSA would either refuse permission to such a flight carrying an Edward Snowden, or warn the Russians that the flight might be forced down. ...

... So how can Snowden fly out of Moscow without ruffling feathers?...

... Planes can do what Snowden needs - there just aren't any planes scheduled to do those things. ...



All a political game of sacrificial pawns?

All in our own world,
Martin

Im sure the Russians still have a few submarines on duty. Id say tell the world he is on a flight to Cuba and see what the US does. Meanwhile he is on a sub.
You dont think the stuff would hit the fan if the US did force down a plane?
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Message 1388427 - Posted: 7 Jul 2013, 0:22:10 UTC - in response to Message 1388422.

Im sure the Russians still have a few submarines on duty. Id say tell the world he is on a flight to Cuba and see what the US does. Meanwhile he is on a sub.
You dont think the stuff would hit the fan if the US did force down a plane?

As to forcing down a plane, if the rumor mongers are right, the USA did force down a plane known to be carrying the head of state. If they are willing to do this, and I doubt they did, then any plane is fair game. And what does this say about Mr. Assange? Would they hesitate to get a "crowd" together and storm and breech that embassy? Assuming they wanted him.

A sub is dang expensive, hell of a lot cheaper to put him on a Russian Military transport aircraft on a regular schedule between Russia and Cuba. As to being "forced" down, my guess the pilot will have orders to have a mechanical issue that requires him to land in Florida. Both sides will have shaken hands so that safety is assured and can go play huge gains on the home front with a disinformation propaganda blast. That's how it is played at this level.

Russia is done with this puke because he won't stop spilling the beans. He had his best offer and he spit on them. They want him gone. Just like Beijing.

What makes you think Russia wants him to spill the beans on the operational details of how to collect the data, at least publicly? What makes you think Russia isn't doing exactly the same at home? Not just Russia, but nearly every country? Do you think they want information that can be used to evade their vacuum cleaner technology disclosed? Don't forget this is all done with off the shelf components and all the intelligence services are doing it the same way. The US taught them!

I see where a couple of countries have offered him. However they refuse to issue him travel documents. More home front propaganda to keep them in office but dealing with the reality they don't want to see the business end of a US cruise missile.

This ends one way, Snowden being judged by a jury of his peers. He better start praying for jury nullification.


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Message 1388439 - Posted: 7 Jul 2013, 3:42:13 UTC - in response to Message 1388427.

Im sure the Russians still have a few submarines on duty. Id say tell the world he is on a flight to Cuba and see what the US does. Meanwhile he is on a sub.
You dont think the stuff would hit the fan if the US did force down a plane?

As to forcing down a plane, if the rumor mongers are right, the USA did force down a plane known to be carrying the head of state. If they are willing to do this, and I doubt they did, then any plane is fair game. And what does this say about Mr. Assange? Would they hesitate to get a "crowd" together and storm and breech that embassy? Assuming they wanted him.

A sub is dang expensive, hell of a lot cheaper to put him on a Russian Military transport aircraft on a regular schedule between Russia and Cuba. As to being "forced" down, my guess the pilot will have orders to have a mechanical issue that requires him to land in Florida. Both sides will have shaken hands so that safety is assured and can go play huge gains on the home front with a disinformation propaganda blast. That's how it is played at this level.

Russia is done with this puke because he won't stop spilling the beans. He had his best offer and he spit on them. They want him gone. Just like Beijing.

What makes you think Russia wants him to spill the beans on the operational details of how to collect the data, at least publicly? What makes you think Russia isn't doing exactly the same at home? Not just Russia, but nearly every country? Do you think they want information that can be used to evade their vacuum cleaner technology disclosed? Don't forget this is all done with off the shelf components and all the intelligence services are doing it the same way. The US taught them!

I see where a couple of countries have offered him. However they refuse to issue him travel documents. More home front propaganda to keep them in office but dealing with the reality they don't want to see the business end of a US cruise missile.

This ends one way, Snowden being judged by a jury of his peers. He better start praying for jury nullification.


Of course every other country knows how to do it. It amazing how many folks are suprised by countrys spying on each other and their own citizens.
And Id say the Russians and Chinese have already had a look see at his data. They dont need his presence to understand how the stuff works. They could just as easily waste him now.
My point about the sub was that if you really want to move someone you dont say hes on this plane going to this place.
It will be interesting how this plays out.
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Message 1388857 - Posted: 8 Jul 2013, 14:35:46 UTC - in response to Message 1388439.

... It amazing how many folks are suprised by countrys spying on each other and their own citizens. ...

Indeed...

All a 'game' of subterfuge and catch-up?


NSA and GCHQ spy programmes face legal challenge

The British and US spy programmes that allow intelligence agencies to gather, store and share data on millions of people have been challenged in a legal claim brought by privacy campaigners...

... "One of the underlying tenets of law in a democratic society is the accessibility and foreseeability of a law. If there is no way for citizens to know of the existence, interpretation, or execution of a law, then the law is effectively secret. And secret law is not law. It is a fundamental breach of the social contract if the government can operate with unrestrained power in such an arbitrary fashion."

The civil rights group Liberty has also made a complaint to the IPT. It believes that its own electronic communications and those of its staff may have been unlawfully intercepted by the security services and GCHQ.



All lest we all descend into unfettered dictatorship and excesses...

All in our own little world,
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Message 1388859 - Posted: 8 Jul 2013, 14:40:28 UTC

And the heat increases:


Snowden's Venezuela offer 'last chance' for political asylum – Russian official

Venezuela's offer of asylum could be NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden's "last chance" to avoid extradition to the US, an influential member of the Russian parliament suggested Sunday...

... The US highest ranking military official acknowledged Sunday that Snowden's disclosures had already damaged US relations with some allies and affected "the importance of trust".

The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Martin Dempsey, told CNN that the US will "work our way back. But it has set us back temporarily."

Also Sunday, US House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers said he "absolutely" thinks that one of the countries offering asylum will give Snowden the papers he needs to escape extradition.

He told CNN the US should look at trade agreements with the nations that are offering asylum "to send a very clear message that we won't put up with this kind of behavior". ...

... There has been no official response from Moscow in regards to the asylum offers.

But Pushkov's comments suggest that some influential voices in Russia are anxious for a solution. The Russian parliamentarian has previously said that Snowden can not "live" at the Moscow airport. ...

... But even if Snowden accepted the offer of asylum from Venezuela, problems getting to South America would continue to exist.

The only direct commercial flight from Moscow goes to Havana, Cuba, through European and US airspace. ...



What a tangled web...

All on our only one planet,
Martin

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Message 1389874 - Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 21:05:35 UTC

http://rt.com/news/snowden-plane-route-cuba-965/

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