ATI Radeon versus Nvidia for new system

Message boards : Number crunching : ATI Radeon versus Nvidia for new system

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Message 1384998 - Posted: 27 Jun 2013, 2:43:56 UTC - in response to Message 1384972.  
Last modified: 27 Jun 2013, 2:45:27 UTC

Greetings:

Thanks to Clive for fixing this thread's title!

To answer some of your questions/comments:

1. Dave - yes, I found that page and, alas, my system has no such registry keys - I found that interesting.
2. OzzFan - if I watch Task Manager after attempting to launch CCC, CCC.exe shows up for a few seconds. It then disappears and NO entries are made in either the Application or System event logs. I'm using The 13.4 driver package, which includes the CCC utility. The display is currently running at 1920x1080x32. The monitor does have an audio out port, but I'm not using it, so the HDMI is only being used for video. All video drivers have been uninstalled, driver sweeper used to clean things up, and re-installed this past weekend, again. This was done at the same time as the .Net cleaning as well.
3. Bill - unfortunately, this monitor only offers HDMI or VGA(d-sub) - yeah, I should have known better. The card is a VisionTek HD5750. The monitor is a Samsung S24C570HL. I've got .Net 1.1, 2.0, 3.0, 3.5, and 4 installed and all are kept updated via Microsoft Update. I've uninstalled them and re-installed from scratch w/no luck. Yes, I've been to that website, also, and followed it's directions while working with ATI support.

Thanks all for your recommendations and comments!!

Neil

I had that same problem on one machine a while back. It was caused by a pre-release version of .net 1.1. That copy was on the machine and as long as I reused the same 1.1 file I had the same problem. Once I went to MS and downloaded a new copy of the right version of .net 1.1 the problem went away. The 'bad' version of 1.1 worked just fine with MS, it just wouldn't work with ATI. Once you get CCC working, you want the overscan feature. The program thinks it's working with a TV due to the HDMI. You probably wouldn't have that problem if you used VGA...
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Profile Dirk Sadowski
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Message 1385053 - Posted: 27 Jun 2013, 7:17:40 UTC - in response to Message 1384972.  
Last modified: 27 Jun 2013, 7:24:48 UTC

Neil L. Carter wrote:
(...)
Thanks to Clive for fixing this thread's title!
(...)


I pressed ' ' and asked if the forum mods could change the title of this thread .. ;-)


Just a note ..
Press 'Post to thread' (not 'Reply' or 'Quote' in an other message) - write a new message to your thread - press 'OK'.
Go to this new message then, press 'Edit' in the first one hour and you can edit also the title of your thread (in a line over your message).


* Best regards! :-) * Philip J. Fry, team seti.international founder. * Optimize your PC for higher RAC. * SETI@home needs your help. *
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Neil L. Carter
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Message 1385122 - Posted: 27 Jun 2013, 15:46:36 UTC - in response to Message 1384980.  

Yes, I tried that - it appears if HDMI is used for the incoming signal the display won't fill the screen without help.

Thanks!
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kittymanProject Donor
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Message 1385133 - Posted: 27 Jun 2013, 16:19:59 UTC

Whatever you settle on, most monitors do have their own settings for height, width, and position that should allow you to get a full screen display once you have the card stabilized at it's final settings.
Always remember.....kitties are all Angels with fur.

Have made friends in this life.
Most were cats.
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Message 1385205 - Posted: 27 Jun 2013, 20:17:27 UTC - in response to Message 1385122.  

Yes, I tried that - it appears if HDMI is used for the incoming signal the display won't fill the screen without help.

Thanks!

Try this place:
(of course your 'big-random-number' may/will be different but it is somewhere under HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Video\)

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Video\{A91D0882-D9F9-409A-89D0-FED0D35A26EF}\0000]
"TVEnableOverscan"=dword:00000001


Or use RegScanner to find (in one list) all the places in Registry which have TVEnableOverscan
http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/regscanner.html





- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
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Message 1385224 - Posted: 27 Jun 2013, 21:27:30 UTC
Last modified: 27 Jun 2013, 21:35:39 UTC

HDMI not filling full screen. (make sure the Input is set to PC and not TV)

In my case I struggled to use the horiz and vert settings of both the NVIDIA

control panel and the monitor itself to set the screen size.

It might work for awhile but kept changing by itself to previous settings.

Found out the Input was set to TV and not PC once I set the HDMI input to PC

it automatically filled the screen.

Just a FWIW.

YMMV depending on make of Monitor
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Neil L. Carter
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Message 1385901 - Posted: 29 Jun 2013, 21:20:23 UTC

Greetings all!!

I finally got my hands on a DVI to VGA adapter and now the screen is filled while at 1920x1080x32. Too bad I've got to go analog to do it, but I guess I'll take it.

Thanks to everyone for their helpful hints/tips on getting things to work otherwise. I still don't have CCC running, but am still working on that.

As far as Radeon versus NVidia, it sounds like there's just no clear champion. I guess hoping there would be was a bit much.

Thanks again!!!

Neil
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Neil L. Carter
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Message 1393131 - Posted: 21 Jul 2013, 2:48:36 UTC

Greetings:

If anyone's still watching this, I was FINALLY able to get CCC running, thanks to ATI support pointing me to this URL http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/windows/en-US/1b8cbf79-9c73-4c47-8e9b-d5a7b3ec01bd/solution-for-catalyst-control-center-ccc-cliimplementation-publickey-token90ba9c70f846762e-issue. It talks about using this process for Vista and 7, but it worked fine for me on XP.

This made all of the difference!! I have been able to use the scaling options to stretch the image to fill the screen. Still don't think this should be necessary, but whatever...

So, now I'm back to using the 12.1 driver so I can run GPU units again, YAY!!

Again, thanks all!!

Neil
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Message 1398186 - Posted: 3 Aug 2013, 1:43:44 UTC - in response to Message 1385901.  

As far as Radeon versus NVidia, it sounds like there's just no clear champion. I guess hoping there would be was a bit much.


It may be too late, but I am seeing much worse results from my ATI 7790 than an Nvidia GTS 450. The ATI returns about 20-25% as many credits per hour as the Nvidia, when I would have expected at least as many and probably more.

First, the good news for the ATI. For the same Flopcounter value, the ATI returns about 1.6x as much credit. (I think it's actually the reverse: the ATI does the same work with 60% of the calculations)

Now the bad news - unlike the Nvidia, where the credits/run time ratio is fairly constant, for the ATI it varies all over the place. It can be as much as an order of magnitude worse for certain WU's.

The Nvidia is on a Linux box and the ATI on a Windows 7 64-bit, but the Nvidia performed similarly when it was running Windows. Both sets of benchmarks were taken with the machines unused. (I wasn't even home then)

Based on this, I would recommend Nvidia over ATI.
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Neil L. Carter
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Message 1398204 - Posted: 3 Aug 2013, 2:43:30 UTC - in response to Message 1398186.  

Thanks!!
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Message 1398319 - Posted: 3 Aug 2013, 14:17:18 UTC

The poor ATI performance on some WUs is really mysterious. If that could be fixed, I think there would be a good argument to use ATI cards. For now, I think Nvidia is the way to go, at least for Seti@Home.
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Message 1398331 - Posted: 3 Aug 2013, 16:06:04 UTC
Last modified: 3 Aug 2013, 16:10:26 UTC

Compare ATI with NV is like the old Coke Vs Pepsi war, each one have their fan club... I only use NV (a personal choice)... but my advice is...

If you intend to run only SETI, NV are easy to use/configurate and have a good price/power/performance. Remember SETI does not use DP to do it´s magic. Just look most of the SETI top hosts use NV.

If you want to crunch a diferent project, check if it needs DP, if that is the case (like Milkway, etc) you must think to use the ATI that are clearely superior on DP work, in that case check the project forum and look the top hosts, it´s a good path to follow.

In both cases allways remember the old rule: buy the best GPU you could paid for, price = performance on the GPU world. And don´t forget you need to have a MB/CPU & PSU capables to feed the hungry of the GPU´s.
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Message 1398334 - Posted: 3 Aug 2013, 16:25:47 UTC

The new ATI cards are at least same fast at seti as nvidias.
I never had a problem configuring them.

Its fine you like yours but dont give wrong assumptions please.

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Message 1398339 - Posted: 3 Aug 2013, 17:02:27 UTC - in response to Message 1398334.  
Last modified: 3 Aug 2013, 17:06:53 UTC

The new ATI cards are at least same fast at seti as nvidias.
I never had a problem configuring them.

Its fine you like yours but dont give wrong assumptions please.

Don´t want to enter on discussion about who wins the coke vs pepsi war, it´s a waste of time but...

You must be a lucky one, there are a lot of users who have troubles to configurate the ATI drivers, just look in this forum and you see a lot of examples of that. Maybe you have few troubles with the configuration exactly because you have only one host/GPU combination to worry about, not my case.

I don´t say the ATI are slower than NV on SETI, i just say for the normal user NV is easy to configurate & use in SETI, just by a simple look at the SETI top host list the first ATI based host is the #52 (from tpl), facts nobody could be against. You realy belive all that top crunchers choose the wrong GPU family for SETI crunching?

If you do the same search on Milkway for example most of the top hosts are ATI based, so in DP ATI is clearey superior. When i crunch other projects i realy miss the DP performance of the ATI.

So where are the "wrong assumptions" you point?

As i say i use NV only because a personal choice. I don´t work for NV or ATI.

Please apologies is my "personal opinion" is diferent from yours, but unless somebody changes that, we have the rights to express them on the forums unless the msg are deliberately hostile or abusive, i´m sure that´s not the case.
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Message 1398340 - Posted: 3 Aug 2013, 17:10:28 UTC
Last modified: 3 Aug 2013, 17:14:21 UTC

Sure its fine Juan.

But i have exactly opposite experience.
I`m a system builder and only have trouble with nvidia.

Sold 3 systems in the last 6 month with NV cards by customers choice.
Not one card even worked with factory settings.

But to be fair i`m no NV expert so i simply guess its a what you know best situation.

If you are good with NV great and it works.
I`m good with ATI and it works also.

I`ve built dozens of PC`s in the last 20 years, neither one ever had any issues.
With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.
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Message 1398341 - Posted: 3 Aug 2013, 17:21:51 UTC
Last modified: 3 Aug 2013, 17:24:45 UTC

I know and realy understand that, a view from a system builder, who realy knows how to integrate and put the parts to work, is totaly diferent from the view of a "madness user" who needs to dig for each single piece of information.

Most of the times a simple change in the configuration that is easy for you is a headache for us, i´m sure you understand what i means.

Please take no offenses form my post´s.

Have a good day/night
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Message 1398344 - Posted: 3 Aug 2013, 17:25:08 UTC - in response to Message 1398341.  

I know and realy understand that, a view from a system builder, who realy knows how to integrate and put the parts to work, is totaly diferent from the view of a "madness user" who needs to dig for each single piece of information.

Most of the times a simple change in the configuration that is easy for you is a headache for us, i´m sure you understand what i means.

Please take no offenses form my post´s.

Have a good day/night


No offense taken Juan.

Best wishes from me as well.

With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.
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Message 1398383 - Posted: 3 Aug 2013, 19:03:39 UTC

I'm not sure I've ever seen such a calm NV <-> ATI thread, anywhere, ever. It almost restores my faith in humanity. Congratulations to everyone involved.

As to variations in ATI performance, I wonder if it has anything to do with architecture. ATI currently has two architectures out there, VLIW and GCN, with GCN being the newer, specifically designed for better compute performance.

GCN is basically found on cards starting with the 77xx and up. Does anyone know if those cards give more consistent performance than the older VLIW ones?

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Message 1398384 - Posted: 3 Aug 2013, 19:10:11 UTC - in response to Message 1398383.  

GCN is basically found on cards starting with the 77xx and up. Does anyone know if those cards give more consistent performance than the older VLIW ones?


The variation I am seeing in performance is with a 7790.


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Message 1398395 - Posted: 3 Aug 2013, 19:44:21 UTC - in response to Message 1398383.  

I'm not sure I've ever seen such a calm NV <-> ATI thread, anywhere, ever. It almost restores my faith in humanity. Congratulations to everyone involved.

As to variations in ATI performance, I wonder if it has anything to do with architecture. ATI currently has two architectures out there, VLIW and GCN, with GCN being the newer, specifically designed for better compute performance.

GCN is basically found on cards starting with the 77xx and up. Does anyone know if those cards give more consistent performance than the older VLIW ones?

I have the newer 7750 and the older 6770. The specs say the re-badged 5770 should be faster than the 7750...it's not. The 7750 is noticeably faster. For the normal AstroPulse task, the 7750 finishes in just over an hour, the 6770 takes about 1.25 hours.
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Message boards : Number crunching : ATI Radeon versus Nvidia for new system


 
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