ATI Radeon versus Nvidia for new system


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Neil L. CarterProject donor
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Message 1384403 - Posted: 25 Jun 2013, 0:08:30 UTC

Greetings:

I just bought my first wide-screen monitor and am not happy - the 24" Samsung doesn't fill the screen at it's rated 1920x1080 resolution. Everything has pointed to needing a new driver for my Radeon HD5750, so I gave up GPU crunching (XP and OpenCL not supported above 12.1) and installed the latest video driver from ATI. Still no good. Sigh...

Now I'm thinking of building a new windows 7 system. I've had issues with the ATI implementation of OpenCL w/XP for some time now. So I'd like recommendations from GPU crunchers regarding their experience when working with Radeon versus Nvidia. Please try to stay away from which one is your favorite just because 'it's what I've always used'. I'd like something more definitive in the way of experience when using one versus the other (this may be asking a bit much, but we're all fanatics)

Thanks!

Neil
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Message 1384404 - Posted: 25 Jun 2013, 0:14:46 UTC

Ok, the thread title should have been "ATI Radeon versus NVidia for new system".

If someone can fix that, great...
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Message 1384405 - Posted: 25 Jun 2013, 0:29:13 UTC - in response to Message 1384403.

What connection are you using on your card?

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Message 1384409 - Posted: 25 Jun 2013, 0:34:03 UTC

From where I sit, the only reason for me to pick Radeon would be for Eyefinity multimonitor support. That was the only thing that Radeon had over the nVidia.

Since I don't need Eyefinity, and since nVidia support is so much better for s@h, I bought nVidia card. It does the os thing, it does my games and it does s@h, no problems, no headaches.

You can get nVidia GTX 560 for about 120 dollars. GTX 560Ti for about 160.
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Message 1384423 - Posted: 25 Jun 2013, 2:29:47 UTC - in response to Message 1384405.

HDMI
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Message 1384543 - Posted: 25 Jun 2013, 12:56:01 UTC

If you're saying that the image doesn't fill the screen edge to edge, have you tried going into Catalyst Control Center, and under "My Digital Flat Panels", choose "Scaling options", then move the slider over to the 0% setting?

-Dave
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Message 1384548 - Posted: 25 Jun 2013, 13:48:31 UTC - in response to Message 1384404.
Last modified: 25 Jun 2013, 13:49:11 UTC

Neil L. Carter wrote:
Ok, the thread title should have been "ATI Radeon versus NVidia for new system".

If someone can fix that, great...


You could do it .. ;-)

Just write a 'new' message to the thread (not a reply to a message).
If you press 'Edit' at this new message of you, you can edit the title of the thread also.


* Best regards! :-) * Philip J. Fry, team seti.international founder. * Optimize your PC for higher RAC. * SETI@home needs your help. *
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Message 1384696 - Posted: 26 Jun 2013, 2:19:06 UTC

Thanks all for your responses!

Philip, you must have a different screen than I. If you mean "Post to thread" when you say "New", as there is no "New", there is no "Edit" anywhere on the page...

Dave, part of my old XP system's problems is that CCC will not run on it. Everyone says it's a problem with Microsoft's .Net stack. I've removed them all, even ran a utility of some sort from Microsoft for cleaning. Re-installed and updated, no joy. I spent a couple of weeks working with ATI support trying to get it to run, they finally gave up. In any case, why won't it run 'native' in 1920x1080, like it's supposed to? Thus the new system being designed.

So far, there's been one post pro NVidia, zero posts Radeon. Less of a tally than I would have hoped.

Hmmm
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Message 1384699 - Posted: 26 Jun 2013, 3:16:05 UTC
Last modified: 26 Jun 2013, 3:17:10 UTC

Post To Thread button is a "new" message? Able to edit your own message.
I hardly ever post so I do not know about change of thread name while editing a message. May be possible if you started the thread in the first place vs. anybody doing it.

Based on what I have read... ATI often seems better, in theory, than NVidia but NVidia often works better. May depend on OS and how compatible the components Motherboard, etc. and related drivers are.
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Message 1384702 - Posted: 26 Jun 2013, 3:24:04 UTC

Neil,
Have you tried the hack listed here?
Not sure if it will work for you, but maybe worth a try. The overscan for ATI/AMD is almost always set to around 10% for me when I install on a clean system, but since I have access to CCC, it's easy to change/fix. I haven't run without CCC that I can remember.

As far as pro Radeon or Nvidia, I've used both and both are decent and have their pluses and minuses. I personally find that the Radeons run better in general, but that could just be the way I run them. People do seem to get polarized towards one or the other, from what I've seen...

-Dave
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Message 1384923 - Posted: 26 Jun 2013, 20:39:25 UTC - in response to Message 1384696.

Philip, you must have a different screen than I. If you mean "Post to thread" when you say "New", as there is no "New", there is no "Edit" anywhere on the page...


At the bottom of this thread, there's a "Post to thread" button. Press that and enter any text and post it to the thread. After you've posted to the thread, you have exactly 1 hour where an "Edit" button will appear in that post window only (next to the message ID and the date/time posted); if you wait any longer than 1 hour the Edit button will disappear.

Once you edit your new post, there is an option to rename the thread title, but it only works if you're the originating poster (which in this case you are).

I spent a couple of weeks working with ATI support trying to get it to run, they finally gave up. In any case, why won't it run 'native' in 1920x1080, like it's supposed to? Thus the new system being designed.


So the ATi/AMD Catalyst Control Center won't run on your PC at all? Which release are you using? What resolution is it running at now?

Also, what type of video connection are you using: VGA, DVI, HDMI, or DisplayPort?

So far, there's been one post pro NVidia, zero posts Radeon. Less of a tally than I would have hoped.


I'm admittedly biased in favor of AMD/ATi, however, the nVidia apps are far more mature due to the fact that nVidia themselves wrote it and donated the code to the project whereas Raistmer has had to write his apps from scratch with lots of trial and error.

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Message 1384933 - Posted: 26 Jun 2013, 20:54:26 UTC

Usually i avoid such dicussions but i can assure you ATI apps are totally mauture and safe to use.
Evenso HD 7xxx cards are same effective than Nvidias.

Mike

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Message 1384940 - Posted: 26 Jun 2013, 21:01:47 UTC - in response to Message 1384923.
Last modified: 26 Jun 2013, 21:12:32 UTC

Philip, you must have a different screen than I. If you mean "Post to thread" when you say "New", as there is no "New", there is no "Edit" anywhere on the page...


At the bottom of this thread, there's a "Post to thread" button. Press that and enter any text and post it to the thread. After you've posted to the thread, you have exactly 1 hour where an "Edit" button will appear in that post window only (next to the message ID and the date/time posted); if you wait any longer than 1 hour the Edit button will disappear.

Once you edit your new post, there is an option to rename the thread title, but it only works if you're the originating poster (which in this case you are).

I spent a couple of weeks working with ATI support trying to get it to run, they finally gave up. In any case, why won't it run 'native' in 1920x1080, like it's supposed to? Thus the new system being designed.


So the ATi/AMD Catalyst Control Center won't run on your PC at all? Which release are you using? What resolution is it running at now?

Also, what type of video connection are you using: VGA, DVI, HDMI, or DisplayPort?

So far, there's been one post pro NVidia, zero posts Radeon. Less of a tally than I would have hoped.


I'm admittedly biased in favor of AMD/ATi, however, the nVidia apps are far more mature due to the fact that nVidia themselves wrote it and donated the code to the project whereas Raistmer has had to write his apps from scratch with lots of trial and error.

OzzFan


He's previously posted HDMI. He may get better results using DVI. I seem to remember you need the latest .NET from MS to get CCC working.

It would help if he posted the exact manufacturer and model of the GPU card and the display. At least we could then look up the hardware specs.

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Message 1384943 - Posted: 26 Jun 2013, 21:05:37 UTC - in response to Message 1384933.
Last modified: 26 Jun 2013, 21:09:53 UTC

Usually i avoid such dicussions but i can assure you ATI apps are totally mauture and safe to use.
Evenso HD 7xxx cards are same effective than Nvidias.


Immature doesn't necessarily mean unsafe - though I concede that to the layman it may read to be so. I merely mean that there seems to be more room for improvement as, as far as I can tell, the AMD/ATi chips should be far better at crunching than nVidia based upon hardware specs alone [edited to add] - at least in theory any way.

BTW - I also use the AMD apps on my systems, and I've been fairly impressed with my HD 7970. I'd like to see what I could do with a second one.

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Message 1384944 - Posted: 26 Jun 2013, 21:08:31 UTC - in response to Message 1384940.
Last modified: 26 Jun 2013, 21:10:21 UTC

He's previously posted HDMI. He may get better rsults using DVI.


Ah, I missed that. Yes, HDMI is exactly the same as DVI but without the sound built-in. I'd say that unless your monitor has built-in speakers driven off the HDMI, there's no good reason to use it. HDMI was invented specifically to reduce the cable clutter of home theater setups by combining video and audio together into a digital connection that is HDCP compliant.

I seem to remember you need the latest .NET from MS to get CCC working.


Depends on the version of CCC, as older version of CCC will work with older versions of .NET. I'd almost suspect that he should do a complete driver removal of all ATi/AMD software, then try a fresh install all over again.

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Message 1384946 - Posted: 26 Jun 2013, 21:21:22 UTC - in response to Message 1384944.

I wonder if he's ever visited this page.

How-To Install AMD Catalyst™ Drivers On A Windows® XP System

http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/GPU-2-ATICatalystSuiteDriverXP.aspx

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Message 1384951 - Posted: 26 Jun 2013, 22:09:09 UTC - in response to Message 1384943.

Usually i avoid such dicussions but i can assure you ATI apps are totally mauture and safe to use.
Evenso HD 7xxx cards are same effective than Nvidias.


Immature doesn't necessarily mean unsafe - though I concede that to the layman it may read to be so. I merely mean that there seems to be more room for improvement as, as far as I can tell, the AMD/ATi chips should be far better at crunching than nVidia based upon hardware specs alone [edited to add] - at least in theory any way.

BTW - I also use the AMD apps on my systems, and I've been fairly impressed with my HD 7970. I'd like to see what I could do with a second one.


I just mean i can easily compare with times of a 4/5/680 under similar circumstances.

And you can trust me i`m testing the apps they are mature.

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Message 1384972 - Posted: 26 Jun 2013, 23:55:48 UTC

Greetings:

Thanks to Clive for fixing this thread's title!

To answer some of your questions/comments:

1. Dave - yes, I found that page and, alas, my system has no such registry keys - I found that interesting.
2. OzzFan - if I watch Task Manager after attempting to launch CCC, CCC.exe shows up for a few seconds. It then disappears and NO entries are made in either the Application or System event logs. I'm using The 13.4 driver package, which includes the CCC utility. The display is currently running at 1920x1080x32. The monitor does have an audio out port, but I'm not using it, so the HDMI is only being used for video. All video drivers have been uninstalled, driver sweeper used to clean things up, and re-installed this past weekend, again. This was done at the same time as the .Net cleaning as well.
3. Bill - unfortunately, this monitor only offers HDMI or VGA(d-sub) - yeah, I should have known better. The card is a VisionTek HD5750. The monitor is a Samsung S24C570HL. I've got .Net 1.1, 2.0, 3.0, 3.5, and 4 installed and all are kept updated via Microsoft Update. I've uninstalled them and re-installed from scratch w/no luck. Yes, I've been to that website, also, and followed it's directions while working with ATI support.

Thanks all for your recommendations and comments!!

Neil
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Message 1384978 - Posted: 27 Jun 2013, 0:48:05 UTC - in response to Message 1384972.

Have you tried a DVI to HDMI adapter? Just to try the settings on a different port.

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Message 1384980 - Posted: 27 Jun 2013, 0:57:44 UTC - in response to Message 1384972.
Last modified: 27 Jun 2013, 1:07:08 UTC

2. OzzFan - if I watch Task Manager after attempting to launch CCC, CCC.exe shows up for a few seconds. It then disappears and NO entries are made in either the Application or System event logs. I'm using The 13.4 driver package, which includes the CCC utility.


Ok, if you're interested in pursuing this issue, what I would do is launch Process Monitor (which will start in data collecting mode immediately), then launch CCC and Task Manager. As soon as you see CCC disappear from Task Manager, stop the data collection in Process Monitor and filter the data to show only the CCC.EXE and all failures, which might help determine what process isn't getting loaded causing the process to disappear. My guess is that something wasn't registered properly (at this point I'm leaning toward the CCC driver not registering it's components with .NET).

However, you've asked about building a new system, which may help fix your software crashes simply through better software support.

The display is currently running at 1920x1080x32. The monitor does have an audio out port, but I'm not using it, so the HDMI is only being used for video.


Ah, so the display is running at the correct resolution, but it isn't filling the entire screen. According to your monitor's User Manual, the auto-display correction is only supported on the VGA (D-sub) output. To fix, you'd have to use the display utility (CCC) as suggested, so you're back to deciding if you want to troubleshoot that issue or upgrade to Windows 7 so that CCC (theoretically) works.

About the VGA option, this may be a path you want to explore. The VGA d-sub connector, despite not being digital, can handle resolutions up to 2048 x 1536, and suffers no display signal loss or loss of quality if used over short distances.

Your Phenom II X4 chip isn't that bad of a chip; especially when you consider that CPU seems to have been out-performed by GPUs. I'd say that upgrading to Windows 7 might be your best first step just to get the software working right (and I suspect it will). Then once you get OpenCL working correctly under Windows 7, see what you can do with your existing HD 5750. If you want to go faster, you can revisit the ATi/nVidia option later.

If you do decide to upgrade to Windows 7, and you'd like to keep your investment if you later decide to build a new machine, might I suggest spending the money on the full retail version (as the cheaper OEM licenses are not transferable to new machines; and upgrade licenses are bound by the original license agreement in the OS being upgraded, which goes back to - if it was an OEM copy, it is not transferable).

But if you are looking for the best bang for your buck, one only needs to look at the top hosts to see this project is dominated by nVidia.

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