Lunatics Windows Installer v0.41 Release Notes

Message boards : Number crunching : Lunatics Windows Installer v0.41 Release Notes
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

Previous · 1 . . . 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 . . . 17 · Next

AuthorMessage
Profile jason_gee
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 24 Nov 06
Posts: 7489
Credit: 91,093,184
RAC: 0
Australia
Message 1377474 - Posted: 6 Jun 2013, 14:29:33 UTC - in response to Message 1377463.  
Last modified: 6 Jun 2013, 14:35:16 UTC

It's Josef's CPU applications which do the double-wisdom jig. Raistmer's ATI applications do all they're going to do the first time.

(Reasoning: the full wisdom generation for the CPU app takes some time, on what may be inherently a slow processor by modern/GPU standards. And until it completes, the task will display no progress in BOINC Manager.

It is likely that the user will be around and anxious to check that it's working, immediately after installation. So we don't want a big startup delay the first time. But by the time the second task starts, it's likely that the user will have lost interest and wandered off to make a cup of tea. So the app can roll up its sleeves and really get to work on that wisdom, without disturbing anybody.

At least that's how I read it.)


For these reasons, and others, there has been a move in (computer science) literature, over the last couple of years, from dynamic run time optimisation ( as per fftw planning & wisdom ) toward offline (install time) optimisation.

This is similar to what LLVM based compilers do on mobile devices, 'optimise your applications' before you use them (after app & system updates too).

With Cuda builds I currently use old-fashioned compile-time optimisation (multiple embedded GPU binaries)with run time planning (as dictated by CUFFT library), dividing the first run convergence on 'known GPUs'. When an Unknown GPU is encountered (such as GK110 recently with x41zc), the (PTX) code embedded in the app gets compiled & optimised on the first run....

IOW, You could go so far as to (optionally) run a short bench/regression test immediately after install, but prior to first live run. This would ensure the offline optimisation enabled in LLVM based first run, or FFTW dynamic wisdom based, gets populated fairly before tests or live running. On one hand raised priorities during these learning period might be best, or on the other hand, conditions representative of real running (which I prefer). In either case the goal is optimise both the running, and the initial 'user experience'.

In most cases telling the user something like "I'm doing something good now, this could take some time" would be acceptable to me, though both fftw's dynamic and Cuda's new card first run approaches violate that, and still work very well.

Jason
"Living by the wisdom of computer science doesn't sound so bad after all. And unlike most advice, it's backed up by proofs." -- Algorithms to live by: The computer science of human decisions.
ID: 1377474 · Report as offensive
Rockhount
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 29 May 00
Posts: 34
Credit: 31,935,954
RAC: 29
Germany
Message 1377507 - Posted: 6 Jun 2013, 16:20:18 UTC - in response to Message 1377199.  

Sorry, my fault.

On this machine I don't have the user rights to change the graphic driver.


greetings
Regards from nothern Germany
Roman

SETI@home classic workunits 207,059
SETI@home classic CPU time 1,251,095 hours

ID: 1377507 · Report as offensive
kittyman Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Jul 00
Posts: 51468
Credit: 1,018,363,574
RAC: 1,004
United States
Message 1377554 - Posted: 6 Jun 2013, 18:13:52 UTC
Last modified: 6 Jun 2013, 18:15:14 UTC

Since optimizing with the installer, it seems I am reported errors on some AP tasks.

Have to run off to work, but could somebody have a look at my recent AP errors and see if you can offer any clues?
They have happened on at least 3 different rigs.

I'll check back in tonight.

Thanks.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

ID: 1377554 · Report as offensive
QSilver

Send message
Joined: 26 May 99
Posts: 232
Credit: 6,452,764
RAC: 0
United States
Message 1377575 - Posted: 6 Jun 2013, 18:57:07 UTC - in response to Message 1377017.  

This question from yesterday probably got overlooked:

One quick question: Can the NV 4200M on this laptop handle 2 units at a time?


Any thoughts?
ID: 1377575 · Report as offensive
JohnDK Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 28 May 00
Posts: 1222
Credit: 451,243,443
RAC: 1,127
Denmark
Message 1377579 - Posted: 6 Jun 2013, 19:03:39 UTC - in response to Message 1377554.  

Since optimizing with the installer, it seems I am reported errors on some AP tasks.

Have to run off to work, but could somebody have a look at my recent AP errors and see if you can offer any clues?
They have happened on at least 3 different rigs.

I'll check back in tonight.

Thanks.

Not that I think I could help but your link gives "No access" :)
ID: 1377579 · Report as offensive
Richard Haselgrove Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 4 Jul 99
Posts: 14649
Credit: 200,643,578
RAC: 874
United Kingdom
Message 1377587 - Posted: 6 Jun 2013, 19:13:55 UTC - in response to Message 1377575.  

This question from yesterday probably got overlooked:
One quick question: Can the NV 4200M on this laptop handle 2 units at a time?

Any thoughts?

A bit of a marginal case, I'd say.

Your computer listing here says:

NVIDIA NVS 4200M (482MB) driver: 268.83

where the Wiki comparison table for Mobility NVS Series gives us a GF119 GPU with 'up to 1024' MiB of memory and 48 shaders.

The 'GF' series GPU can certainly handle two tasks at once, but that 482 MB of memory feels a little tight. I run a 420M GPU with 1023MB of memory: that could certainly handle two at a time, but I run it with a single task, because the 48 shaders (same as yours) make it substantially slower than the venerable 9800GTs I run in desktop machines.
ID: 1377587 · Report as offensive
Grant (SSSF)
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 19 Aug 99
Posts: 13720
Credit: 208,696,464
RAC: 304
Australia
Message 1377592 - Posted: 6 Jun 2013, 19:26:02 UTC - in response to Message 1377587.  

The 'GF' series GPU can certainly handle two tasks at once, but that 482 MB of memory feels a little tight.

Running 2 at a time on my systems, and with a couple of browsers open it's using 670MB of Video RAM.

Grant
Darwin NT
ID: 1377592 · Report as offensive
Profile BilBg
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 27 May 07
Posts: 3720
Credit: 9,385,827
RAC: 0
Bulgaria
Message 1377605 - Posted: 6 Jun 2013, 19:53:17 UTC - in response to Message 1375982.  

Fred E.:
I'm puzzled by the problem I'm having.
I get a bad app_info.xml file - just one line:

<app_info>

This was with BOINC completely shut down. Have repeated several times, with the same results. Can't read the installer's messages to see if has an error message- they fly by too fast for me.


The problem was identified and solved in dialog between Fred E. and me.

This is not caused by error in the installer.
(aimerge.cmd included in the installer uses the well known command 'find' which is supposed to be present and working on any Windows)

The cause:
It turns out that on some systems the Path environment variable is not set correctly (probably some program install/uninstall deleted it).
(find.exe used by aimerge.cmd is in \WINDOWS\system32\ and this directory need to be in Path= (which is the case on fresh installed Windows))

To check:
Start command prompt (Win+R and type in the 'Run' window: CMD)
Type (in the command prompt window):
set pa




See if somewhere in the Path= there is:
C:\WINDOWS\system32

(drive letter may be different, you see my is not C: but D:):
If you don't have this directory in the Path= some commands will not work on your system.


Fix:
Add this text to the beginning of Path environment variable (copy from here, change drive letter if needed):
;C:\WINDOWS\system32;C:\WINDOWS;

To get to the window for editing:
Windows XP: Win+Pause
Windows 7/Vista: Win+Pause and at top-left click 'Advanced system settings'
... and follow the picture bellow.

In 'Edit System Variable' window press Home to go to the beginning and Ctrl+V to paste the ;C:\WINDOWS\system32;C:\WINDOWS;





(I think you need to be 'Administrator' to do the above change)

- Reboot the computer
- See if the set command now shows ;C:\WINDOWS\system32;C:\WINDOWS; in the Path=

(tested on Windows XP 32-bit, you may see some difference on other systems)


P.S.
On Fred E. computer the Path was only this:
Path=C:\Program Files\NVIDIA Corporation\PhysX\Common

We fixed it to:
Path=C:\WINDOWS\system32;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\System32\Wbem;C:\Program Files\NVIDIA Corporation\PhysX\Common

... and the installer's aimerge.cmd correctly created app_info.xml
Fred E.: "The installer ran fine, no visible problems, now running BOINC with the app_info.xml it created (with usual edits for count)."



 


- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
 
ID: 1377605 · Report as offensive
Profile Mike Special Project $75 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 17 Feb 01
Posts: 34253
Credit: 79,922,639
RAC: 80
Germany
Message 1377658 - Posted: 6 Jun 2013, 21:28:41 UTC - in response to Message 1377554.  

Since optimizing with the installer, it seems I am reported errors on some AP tasks.

Have to run off to work, but could somebody have a look at my recent AP errors and see if you can offer any clues?
They have happened on at least 3 different rigs.

I'll check back in tonight.

Thanks.


I`m almost certain its a driver issue.
I see you are running the same driver on all GPU`s 304.79.
I suggest to install a newer driver at least on one host to see if that changes anything.



With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.
ID: 1377658 · Report as offensive
Profile skildude
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 4 Oct 00
Posts: 9541
Credit: 50,759,529
RAC: 60
Yemen
Message 1377659 - Posted: 6 Jun 2013, 21:29:38 UTC

I've had 3 validation inconclusives with my ATI cards. All 3 were against Cuda cards. 2 of the Cuda card results were overflows.


In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope
ID: 1377659 · Report as offensive
Juha
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 7 Mar 04
Posts: 388
Credit: 1,857,738
RAC: 0
Finland
Message 1377663 - Posted: 6 Jun 2013, 21:36:46 UTC - in response to Message 1377605.  

Fix:
Add this text to the beginning of Path environment variable (copy from here, change drive letter if needed):
;C:\WINDOWS\system32;C:\WINDOWS;

I'm sure Richard, William and the rest of the gang are pleased to hear you figured out why the install didn't work.

However, if you are going to fix something fix it right. In this case, don't hardcode the paths like that. The correct form is:

%SystemRoot%\system32;%SystemRoot%;%SystemRoot%\System32\Wbem;

(taken from an almost vanilla installation of XP.)
ID: 1377663 · Report as offensive
Profile Mike Special Project $75 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 17 Feb 01
Posts: 34253
Credit: 79,922,639
RAC: 80
Germany
Message 1377664 - Posted: 6 Jun 2013, 21:38:09 UTC - in response to Message 1377659.  

I've had 3 validation inconclusives with my ATI cards. All 3 were against Cuda cards. 2 of the Cuda card results were overflows.


That might be host dependent.
I more worry about those just missing one signal.



With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.
ID: 1377664 · Report as offensive
Profile BilBg
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 27 May 07
Posts: 3720
Credit: 9,385,827
RAC: 0
Bulgaria
Message 1377681 - Posted: 6 Jun 2013, 22:08:35 UTC - in response to Message 1377663.  

Fix:
Add this text to the beginning of Path environment variable (copy from here, change drive letter if needed):
;C:\WINDOWS\system32;C:\WINDOWS;

I'm sure Richard, William and the rest of the gang are pleased to hear you figured out why the install didn't work.

However, if you are going to fix something fix it right. In this case, don't hardcode the paths like that. The correct form is:

%SystemRoot%\system32;%SystemRoot%;%SystemRoot%\System32\Wbem;

(taken from an almost vanilla installation of XP.)

Yes, this looks like the correct way.

Then it is strange that on my system (Win XP) it is hardcoded (copy is from 'Edit System Variable' window, not from CMD, and I didn't edited it manually ever):

%CommonProgramFiles%\Microsoft Shared\Windows Live;D:\Program Files\AMD APP\bin\x86;D:\WINDOWS\system32;D:\WINDOWS;D:\WINDOWS\System32\Wbem;H:\Programs.XP\Samsung;H:\ASRAPI\BIN;D:\Program Files\Common Files\Teleca Shared;D:\Program Files\QuickTime\QTSystem\;D:\Program Files\ATI Technologies\ATI.ACE\Core-Static


 


- ALF - "Find out what you don't do well ..... then don't do it!" :)
 
ID: 1377681 · Report as offensive
Juha
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 7 Mar 04
Posts: 388
Credit: 1,857,738
RAC: 0
Finland
Message 1377686 - Posted: 6 Jun 2013, 22:22:26 UTC - in response to Message 1377681.  

Yes, this looks like the correct way.

Then it is strange that on my system (Win XP) it is hardcoded (copy is from 'Edit System Variable' window, not from CMD, and I didn't edited it manually ever):

%CommonProgramFiles%\Microsoft Shared\Windows Live;D:\Program Files\AMD APP\bin\x86;D:\WINDOWS\system32;D:\WINDOWS;D:\WINDOWS\System32\Wbem;H:\Programs.XP\Samsung;H:\ASRAPI\BIN;D:\Program Files\Common Files\Teleca Shared;D:\Program Files\QuickTime\QTSystem\;D:\Program Files\ATI Technologies\ATI.ACE\Core-Static


Without any proof whatsoever I'd put the blame on some lousy installer reading the variable in its expanded form and then writing it back like that.
ID: 1377686 · Report as offensive
QSilver

Send message
Joined: 26 May 99
Posts: 232
Credit: 6,452,764
RAC: 0
United States
Message 1377687 - Posted: 6 Jun 2013, 22:24:13 UTC - in response to Message 1377587.  

This question from yesterday probably got overlooked:
One quick question: Can the NV 4200M on this laptop handle 2 units at a time?

Any thoughts?

A bit of a marginal case, I'd say.

Your computer listing here says:

NVIDIA NVS 4200M (482MB) driver: 268.83

where the Wiki comparison table for Mobility NVS Series gives us a GF119 GPU with 'up to 1024' MiB of memory and 48 shaders.

The 'GF' series GPU can certainly handle two tasks at once, but that 482 MB of memory feels a little tight. I run a 420M GPU with 1023MB of memory: that could certainly handle two at a time, but I run it with a single task, because the 48 shaders (same as yours) make it substantially slower than the venerable 9800GTs I run in desktop machines.


Running 2 at a time on my systems, and with a couple of browsers open it's using 670MB of Video RAM.


Thanks for taking a look, Richard and Grant. I'll leave it at one task.
ID: 1377687 · Report as offensive
kittyman Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 Jul 00
Posts: 51468
Credit: 1,018,363,574
RAC: 1,004
United States
Message 1377837 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 7:04:10 UTC - in response to Message 1377658.  

Since optimizing with the installer, it seems I am reported errors on some AP tasks.

Have to run off to work, but could somebody have a look at my recent AP errors and see if you can offer any clues?
They have happened on at least 3 different rigs.

I'll check back in tonight.

Thanks.


I`m almost certain its a driver issue.
I see you are running the same driver on all GPU`s 304.79.
I suggest to install a newer driver at least on one host to see if that changes anything.

I may try some driver updating tomorrow.

"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

ID: 1377837 · Report as offensive
Profile William
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 14 Feb 13
Posts: 2037
Credit: 17,689,662
RAC: 0
Message 1377872 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 8:08:42 UTC - in response to Message 1377664.  

I've had 3 validation inconclusives with my ATI cards. All 3 were against Cuda cards. 2 of the Cuda card results were overflows.


That might be host dependent.
I more worry about those just missing one signal.

False overflows are usually flaky cards - too hot or just half dead.
A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read. (Mark Twain)
ID: 1377872 · Report as offensive
JPP

Send message
Joined: 31 May 99
Posts: 18
Credit: 59,436,360
RAC: 47
France
Message 1377874 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 8:10:01 UTC

hi / just a stupid beginer's request

i recently performed upgrade to latest setiathome version + w32 041 optimizer
after many many attempts (remove/reinstall); i can see the time to compute a wu with my gpu (650ti) simply doubled; compared to ""before;
Even when CPU's are idle; it simply takes twice than before
I tried also to update to the latest nvidia driver
i can see i m using cuda32/ x41zc ;
so all looks correct to me and i face a pretty stable situation
therefore i come with 2 questions
1 would you mind to tell me where to dig first ?
2 Is there anywhere info/bench on expected crunch time for with various gpu which coud help to figure out roughtly if on track or not
i suspect i have something wrong but miss the point

txs in advance cheers:jpp
ID: 1377874 · Report as offensive
Grant (SSSF)
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 19 Aug 99
Posts: 13720
Credit: 208,696,464
RAC: 304
Australia
Message 1377894 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 8:38:42 UTC - in response to Message 1377874.  

after many many attempts (remove/reinstall); i can see the time to compute a wu with my gpu (650ti) simply doubled; compared to ""before;

v7 processing takes much longer than with v6. Sometimes the processing time is more than doubled, others less than double.

Grant
Darwin NT
ID: 1377894 · Report as offensive
Richard Haselgrove Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 4 Jul 99
Posts: 14649
Credit: 200,643,578
RAC: 874
United Kingdom
Message 1377905 - Posted: 7 Jun 2013, 8:51:46 UTC - in response to Message 1377686.  

Yes, this looks like the correct way.

Then it is strange that on my system (Win XP) it is hardcoded (copy is from 'Edit System Variable' window, not from CMD, and I didn't edited it manually ever):

%CommonProgramFiles%\Microsoft Shared\Windows Live;D:\Program Files\AMD APP\bin\x86;D:\WINDOWS\system32;D:\WINDOWS;D:\WINDOWS\System32\Wbem;H:\Programs.XP\Samsung;H:\ASRAPI\BIN;D:\Program Files\Common Files\Teleca Shared;D:\Program Files\QuickTime\QTSystem\;D:\Program Files\ATI Technologies\ATI.ACE\Core-Static


Without any proof whatsoever I'd put the blame on some lousy installer reading the variable in its expanded form and then writing it back like that.

That looks plausible. On an almost vanilla Windows XP with BOINC-related additions, the path is:

PATH=C:\Program Files\NVIDIA Corporation\PhysX\Common;C:\WINDOWS\system32;C:\WINDOWS;C:\WINDOWS\System32\Wbem;C:\CUDA\bin

So guess which installer we blame ;P

OK, I've got the message - and many, many thanks for continuing to explore this while I caught my breath after Monday. OK, now we know where the problem lies, I've got two or three possibilities for a workround - I'll let them marinade for a day or two.

There was an important update to the BOINC source code yesterday, which affects all BOINC applications (across all projects, not just us) - especially GPU apps. So it's just possible that we may have to update the installer with another full release, sooner rather than later. If so, that would be an ideal opportunity to deploy whatever solution we come up with.
ID: 1377905 · Report as offensive
Previous · 1 . . . 7 · 8 · 9 · 10 · 11 · 12 · 13 . . . 17 · Next

Message boards : Number crunching : Lunatics Windows Installer v0.41 Release Notes


 
©2024 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.