SETI@home Version 7 has been released


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Profile TRuEQ & TuVaLu
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Message 1375486 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 17:48:28 UTC - in response to Message 1375455.

Didn't it come to your mind for a single second, that all these complains that you have read regarding the V7 release are a result of not informing people in advance?

The reasons that you just posted are vaild, but not known to the vast majority of the SETI users.

A short posting in advance of the V7 release informing all users would have been sufficient. But the opportunity was missed.

Ignorance? Misconception?


I'd agree with ignorance and misconception, but on the user's behalf.

If a user took the time to install an optimized application, then they should take the time to read the forums for any updates. The v7 application has been mentioned for well over 6 months now in various places on the forums.

Again, it is not the responsibility of the Project Admins to let Anonymous platform users know that a change is coming and what they will need to do afterward. The entire point of the Anonymous platform is that it is an unsupported feature allowing people to write applications for unsupported platforms.

The Project is only responsible for supporting the stock applications using the conventional automatic updating feature of BOINC.


At Beta there are people who run optimized applications even that particular app aren't the one that should be tested.
So there is always some anarchy involved.

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Message 1375546 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 19:34:32 UTC - in response to Message 1375530.

gs, since you are so opinionated about this, why don't you get involved with Lunatics and help publish the info you think the rest of us need.
OBW, I read the forums about V7 coming and it has been seamless for me.
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Message 1375560 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 19:58:05 UTC - in response to Message 1375546.
Last modified: 2 Jun 2013, 20:03:21 UTC

gs, since you are so opinionated about this, why don't you get involved with Lunatics and help publish the info you think the rest of us need.
OBW, I read the forums about V7 coming and it has been seamless for me.


Me, opinionated?
Well, this thread is about 12 pages now, half of it full of complaints about people using non-standard configurations crunching SETI WU and complaning about things going the wrong way after SAH changed to V7.

Now, all I pointed out is, that with the SAH admins acting a little more anticipating and communicative, all users (regardless if running stock SAH setup or "Anonymous platforms" or Lunatics apps) could have been informed well in advance about
- the problems to be expected with non-standard setups
- the status of the development of Lunatics apps for V7 (if SAH and Lunatics were working together really that close...)
- a "first aid" procedure to make V7 WUs run on modified systems
- information about what's new in V7 (even today, I haven't seen such a piece of information...)

and all I get is "SAH is not responsible". LOL!
And you call me "opinionated"?

This change in the SETI programm was poorly managed, communication was poor and didn't include active measures to help the community as a whole.

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Message 1375573 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 20:10:48 UTC

To be fair to gs, I think some of you are misreading him.

His main comment isn't about communications from Lunatics, it's about communications from Eric and the main project.

To be frank, it would have been helpful to us to have had a clearer timetable and more details of the rollout plans (like those version numbers and so on) a little further in advance, too. Then, our volunteers - who juggle their contributions with work, family and/or social lives - would have been a little better prepared. But SETI isn't a commercial corporation with profits and shareholders to pull its strings: it's an academic, scientific, research project at the bleeding edge. Sh*t happens.

I'm lucky: because I'm retired now, I can devote as much or as little of my time to my hobbies as I choose. I've worked through the weekend because I enjoy the challenge and the sense of satisfaction I get from a 'job well done' when it's finished. Other colleagues don't have that luxury, but still have to be consulted when they come back online after the weekend. Testing continues, but we won't release until we're sure it's right, whenever that is.

And with that, break-time is over, and I'll turn round and disappear back into the cellar.

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Message 1375579 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 20:28:31 UTC - in response to Message 1375560.


Me, opinionated?
Well, this thread is about 12 pages now, half of it full of complaints about people using non-standard configurations crunching SETI WU and complaning about things going the wrong way after SAH changed to V7.


Its 4 pages long. Im personally prone to exaggeration but seriously. Most of those complaints from 'non-standard' users seem to be from you, and posts from people responding to you telling you quite how wrong you are with your random assumptions about various things.


Now, all I pointed out is, that with the SAH admins acting a little more anticipating and communicative, all users (regardless if running stock SAH setup or "Anonymous platforms" or Lunatics apps) could have been informed well in advance about
- the problems to be expected with non-standard setups


Surely you knew about the downfalls of anonymous platform installs when you put them on your computer, or did you just blindly install something, knowing nothing about it?


- the status of the development of Lunatics apps for V7 (if SAH and Lunatics were working together really that close...)


As someone has previously stated... The new apps are lunatics apps. Why do you need to know about the status of them? You obviously never went to the beta site where these apps were tested and were discussed at length (also as previously stated)over many months.


- a "first aid" procedure to make V7 WUs run on modified systems


Ok... Ill do that for you. Run down your cache, exit boinc, go to your projects folder delete your app_info.xml file or just rename it. Reset the project. Restart boinc. Voila.


- information about what's new in V7 (even today, I haven't seen such a piece of information...)


The scientists have been busy as has also been previously stated (recurring theme here i think). It will be posted. Its something to do with Auto Correleations. I wont even attempt to describe this as to be honest, I havent really looked.


and all I get is "SAH is not responsible". LOL!


Theyre not, you are.


And you call me "opinionated"?


I would also say you need to read what people actually respond to you.


This change in the SETI programm was poorly managed, communication was poor and didn't include active measures to help the community as a whole.

You obviously didnt read the number crunching forum, where it was discussed before v7 was released. Please do this instead of whining next time. I imagine that would be much appreciated
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Message 1375587 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 20:56:00 UTC - in response to Message 1375579.

Its 4 pages long.

The number of posts per page is user-configurable. On my current settings, it's 10 pages (or was, before this post).

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Message 1375589 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 20:58:36 UTC - in response to Message 1375587.

Its 4 pages long.

The number of posts per page is user-configurable. On my current settings, it's 10 pages (or was, before this post).


Good call. Forgot about that. Sorry GS :)
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Message 1375594 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 21:03:30 UTC
Last modified: 2 Jun 2013, 21:05:04 UTC

To be frank, it would have been helpful to us to have had a clearer timetable and more details of the rollout plans (like those version numbers and so on) a little further in advance, too. Then, our volunteers - who juggle their contributions with work, family and/or social lives - would have been a little better prepared. But SETI isn't a commercial corporation with profits and shareholders to pull its strings: it's an academic, scientific, research project at the bleeding edge. Sh*t happens.

I'm lucky: because I'm retired now, I can devote as much or as little of my time to my hobbies as I choose. I've worked through the weekend because I enjoy the challenge and the sense of satisfaction I get from a 'job well done' when it's finished. Other colleagues don't have that luxury, but still have to be consulted when they come back online after the weekend. Testing continues, but we won't release until we're sure it's right, whenever that is.

And with that, break-time is over, and I'll turn round and disappear back into the cellar.


A very good post Richard, and we all appreciate what you do even if at times it isn't obvious. Thank you.

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Message 1375596 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 21:09:56 UTC - in response to Message 1375594.
Last modified: 2 Jun 2013, 21:11:14 UTC

Chris, in french, we call it a déjà-vu ! :p
I know that you love so much french then I was not able to refrain ! ;)

EDIT : oups, you edited your message >> Exit for me >>
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Message 1375598 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 21:16:08 UTC - in response to Message 1375573.

To be fair to gs, I think some of you are misreading him.

His main comment isn't about communications from Lunatics, it's about communications from Eric and the main project.

To be frank, it would have been helpful to us to have had a clearer timetable and more details of the rollout plans (like those version numbers and so on) a little further in advance, too. Then, our volunteers - who juggle their contributions with work, family and/or social lives - would have been a little better prepared. But SETI isn't a commercial corporation with profits and shareholders to pull its strings: it's an academic, scientific, research project at the bleeding edge. Sh*t happens.


I couldn't write it in better words.

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Message 1375601 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 21:20:31 UTC

Hi Thomas. Your views are always welcome :-)

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Message 1375604 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 21:25:40 UTC - in response to Message 1375553.

From Gary Charpentier:


[...]If RAC is all you care about, there are other projects [that] pay far more. Switch today!


+1000 Too many crunchers here are worried about RAC. It's not a race, folks. The project is what matters, not inflating your ego by showing up in the top 10 of some list...Let go of your ego; see past that and you'll realize that we're all on the same team. No one is any better than anyone else.

Deep breaths, people. In a little while everything will be hunky-dory. In the meantime: deep breaths.

Back to the topic. v7 seems to be running pretty good on my end. Still a little confused about two different types of GPU tasks being crunched on my machine, but I know it's somehow a planned thing. Slower to crunch stuff than before, but also a planned thing I think. All in all: I gotz work so I'm happy!

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Message 1375630 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 22:45:45 UTC

I started contributing computer time to this project in 1999 and have enjoyed the opportunity to participate. This is the first time I have been moved to post to a forum. That is because I do not want to post to forums. I suspect that there are far more people like me than any other group.
This transition has not gone very well from my POV. It happened before I knew it was going to happen and finding information has been difficult. All of you who live in the forums may have found it easy, but I sure have not. In trying to fix things myself I have had to peruse and I was disturbed to read that some bunch who appear to be in some form of authority feel that it is the responsibility of end users to dig around to find out what is going on. This is just like the mainframe computer centers of the 1960s to 1990s.
If the only people you want to serve, and be served by, are the leading edge techies then you will soon have only those people. If you want the masses, which I consider myself to be part of, to continue to support SAH and other BOINC projects then follow the professional guidelines for project transitions and communicate with the main end-user mass.
I found the previous discussion disheartening and my first thought was that someone (and I don't know who) needs a vacation.
FYI I am no longer able to process SAH tasks and resetting the project (previously recommended) only downloads some headers and then stops. I will muddle through and eventually get it working. But even the promised note about why all of this is happening has not shown up.
I appreciate the hard work that many people put in. I show that appreciation by running my single computer at home 24 hours a day all year long.
I sure hope we hear something fairly soon. There is nothing like winning to create a deodorant for all ills.
Bruce L. Stegner
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Message 1375632 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 22:53:42 UTC - in response to Message 1375630.

FYI I am no longer able to process SAH tasks and resetting the project (previously recommended) only downloads some headers and then stops. I will muddle through and eventually get it working. But even the promised note about why all of this is happening has not shown up.


You already have many v7 work units validated. You have currently 6 work units processing. I don't understand the problem as it looks like you are processing well. Please give us more information as to what specific problems you are having.

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Message 1375639 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 23:17:07 UTC - in response to Message 1375632.

Here are the anomalies
1. In task manager every 5 minutes a request is sent out that says not requesting new tasks.
2. When the only tasks I have in queue are ones requiring my video adapter and I am running out of work (I have 8 cpus on a 64 bit I-7). I can run 9 tasks and get down to 4 or 5. When I request an update it says I am requesting too soon. But I am sitting there idle. I do run other BOINC projects but that is not my purpose.
3. After filling up with other tasks I can still not get any other work. This is different than the previous engine.
4. The only concrete advice I have so far found is to reset the project.
5. When I reset the project all tasks disappear.
6. It begins a request that gets distorted into a request for tasks that says no tasks requested.
7. I get a message that the main engine has been downloaded along with some banners or headers.
8. Now I have no SAH tasks but it continues with these requests every five minutes.
If it would help I can copy the log into an email. I am running windows and have 12 Gbytes of RAM.
Hope that helps. I am fine with waiting a day and trying it all over. I am also fine with uninstalling BOINC and then reinstalling it. I thought I would give it 24 hours to cool off.
Sorry to be taking up board space with this. My original point was just to document that the transition has not been smooth.
Thanks
Bruce
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Message 1375643 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 23:23:27 UTC - in response to Message 1375639.

...but if you had work, that means the v7 application downloaded, processed work, and returned it for credit.

This means your issues have little to do with the v7 rollout and more to do with how BOINC is configured on your particular machine, or a possible bug in the BOINC application framework.

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Message 1375645 - Posted: 2 Jun 2013, 23:35:50 UTC - in response to Message 1375643.

Hmm.
Previously I had sufficient work unless the project was down. The system did not say I did not need work unless that was the truth. The system was able to distinguish graphics cpu tasks from others.

Now I have idle engines because I have 9 or 10 tasks that are all requiring the graphics cpu. The other cpu's are idle. This is different. It appears that no distinction is made between tasks optimized for the graphics processor and tasks that do not take advantage of the graphics processor.
The techniques I used to acquire tasks do not work now
So yes, the system worked as long as I had enough tasks but once the tasks in queue became low this nonproductive iterative stuff took over. The infamous "Don't Loop."
My installation is "vanilla" except for ample space on disks to store work. I have not tweaked anything. At least not wittingly.
When I looked for what to do until ET calls the only thing I found was reset the project which is what I did. This resulted in what appears to be a partial install and no tasks.
Thanks for thinking about this.
Bruce

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Message 1375655 - Posted: 3 Jun 2013, 0:15:28 UTC - in response to Message 1375645.
Last modified: 3 Jun 2013, 0:30:47 UTC

The system was able to distinguish graphics cpu tasks from others.

Now I have idle engines because I have 9 or 10 tasks that are all requiring the graphics cpu. The other cpu's are idle. This is different. It appears that no distinction is made between tasks optimized for the graphics processor and tasks that do not take advantage of the graphics processor.


All SETI@home workunits are from the same pool. It gets assigned to a particular resource based upon which resource BOINC requests work for. BOINC is designed to request work for the more powerful resource (usually your GPU) first, then request work for any slower resources. Once downloaded to your machine, BOINC does not automatically re-assign work to another resource; it remains tied to the resource for which it was requested. This design feature has prompted someone to write a program called the "BOINC rescheduler", designed specifically to allow the user to re-assign tasks from the GPU to CPU and vice versa.

It sounds like for some reason BOINC is not requesting work for your CPU. My best guess is that since you reset the Project as part of your troubleshooting attempts, it is trying to fill your GPU with work first. I'd wager that if you leave it alone, the issue should resolve itself eventually.

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Message 1375659 - Posted: 3 Jun 2013, 0:42:43 UTC - in response to Message 1375655.

Excellent suggestion
I will let things chill for 24 hours and see what pops out.
Thanks for your thoughts
Bruce
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Message 1375671 - Posted: 3 Jun 2013, 1:18:17 UTC

Bruce,you shouild confirm that the cache settings in BOINC are appropriate for that version of BOINC. Should be something like Minimum work buffer of 2 or 3 days and max additional of .01 days. Those settings are under tools/computing preferences/network usage. If that doesn't do it, open a thread in Number Crunching and we'll help you troubleshoot.
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