The train thread

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Profile Bill Walker
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Message 1668440 - Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 13:51:41 UTC

Just to add to Bernie's comments, in the two smallish freight yards in my home town it is quite common to see even the yard shifters working in pairs. We used to have a lot of cow and calf combos 20 years ago,but they are disappearing.


Out west, through the mountains, you can regularly see long freights with upwards of 20,000 horsepower attached.


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Message 1668510 - Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 17:08:36 UTC - in response to Message 1668487.  

...Why aren't goods produced where they are needed? Ok mines cant be moved to the users, but how much %age of freight is mine output as against other goods?

Huge/Large items especially items like cars, industrial equipment, home appliances, furniture, carpeting, etc are manufactured/built where labor is (considerably) cheaper, the labor pool (workers) are plentiful and access to the raw materials or semi-finished parts are easily available and then easily transported to a retailer's national or regional distribution center(s).

You also have some of the "NIMBY" [Not In My Back Yard (Neighborhood)] issues/attitude in parts of the USA where people do not want "large industry" near them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trucking_industry_in_the_United_States#Economic_impact
Commercial Freight Activity in the US by Mode of Transportation
Transportation mode	Estimates in millions	Relative shares in percents
Value	Tons	Value	Tons
Truck	$9,075,000	11,712	69.5	60.1
Rail	$392,000	1,979	3.0	10.2
Water	$673,000	1,668	5.2	8.6
Pipeline	$896,000	3,529	6.9	18.1
Other modes (incl. air, intermodal)	$2,015,000	600	15.4	3.0
Total	$13,052,000	19,847	100.0	100.0
Source: 2002 estimate by the Bureau of Transportation Statistics[33]
Note: Weights listed are measured in short tons.

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Message 1668515 - Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 17:15:27 UTC - in response to Message 1668487.  
Last modified: 22 Apr 2015, 17:18:04 UTC


But looking at that Canadian 4 header, and even realising that USA/Canada is 3000 miles wide, why does so much freight have to be moved long distance from A to B?? Why aren't goods produced where they are needed? Ok mines cant be moved to the users, but how much %age of freight is mine output as against other goods?


It goes back to the original Confederation in 1867 Chris. Tariffs and taxes were set up to encourage manufacturing in the "old" provinces of Quebec and Ontario, and agriculture in the Maritimes and the "new" provinces on the prairies. This has gradually been reduced over the years, but the manufacturing base remains mostly in the east, and the prairies export a sh*t load of everything agricultural. That freight in the picture in my post is probably prairie grains heading for BC ports, where it will get shipped on all over the Pacific (mostly China and Japan). Alot of the grain traffic runs in government owned cars, over private rail lines.


The trains have shifted to bulk goods over the last few decades, but that is more than just mine output. Today it includes processed food (cans and frozen meat for example), wheat, corn and forestry products, and most recently crude oil. Crude oil shipments by rail in North America have grown by at least 20% per year for the last 5 years. CN and CP just love it when the Yanks can't agree on building new pipelines.


A large amount of imports from overseas arrives in containers on the coast nowadays, and then moves by train to the population centres. I live in one of the most densely populated parts of the country, and we are at least 1,500 miles from the nearest salt water port. Container trains are generally "fast freights" because of the high dollar value of the contents (TVs, cell phones, etc.). They are usually relatively short, but have lots of horsepower on front for fast acceleration. They get priority over just about everything, including passenger trains.


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Message 1668522 - Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 17:25:19 UTC
Last modified: 22 Apr 2015, 17:25:43 UTC

Just an example of how messed up Canadian freight tariffs used to be:

Back in 1976 I worked in a small vehicle manufacturing plant in Calgary (the prairies). Freight rates gave preference to manufactured goods from the east to the prairies, and raw material, like plate steel, paid an extra premium to be off loaded in the prairies. The cheapest way for us to get steel plate from Ontario steel mills was to ship it by train to Vancouver on the west coast, passing through Calgary, and then put it on a truck for the 600 mile run BACK to Calgary. It would have cost more to unload from the train in Calgary, because freight rates and taxes encouraged shipment of Ontario steel plate to BC ports for export, but not to prairie centres where it would compete with eastern manufacture of finished goods.

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Message 1668599 - Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 21:07:44 UTC

6,000 HP units never really caught on, mostly due to problems with applying all that power to the rail without wheel slip. Almost everything being built today for freight is 4,400 HP.

Amtrak's P42s are, as the name implies, 4,200 HP, with a certain amount of that available to be diverted to electrical power for the train. Commuter engines built of late also have their HP rating in their model designation.

EMD used the HP rating in its model names for a short while, namely the GP/SD18, -20, and -24. However, just as they were getting ready to debut the GP22, GE hit the market with its U25B/C (2,500 HP). EMD decided it could tolerate selling a lower-powered engine than the competition, but not one with a lower number in its model name, so it arbitrarily changed it to the GP30, citing some hokum about it having 30 improvements over the previous model. Despite being called 30, it still had 2,250 HP. From that point, the next model series was the 35 (2,500 HP) and the next was the 40 series. These were wildly popular at 3,000 HP and remained in production for well over a decade, especially after the "-2" electronic control system was introduced. The 40 series included the non-turbocharged 38s (2,000 HP), the 12-cylinder 39 (2,300 HP), and the 20-cylinder SD45 (3,600 HP). The F40PH used by Amtrak and numerous commuter lines was basically a GP40 with HEP equipment and a full carbody; some of them are finding second lives in freight service.
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Message 1668601 - Posted: 22 Apr 2015, 21:08:23 UTC

Some interesting old pictures of Chicago L trains.
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Message 1668687 - Posted: 23 Apr 2015, 0:26:04 UTC - in response to Message 1668601.  

Some interesting old pictures of Chicago L trains.

Great blog, David! Can't tell you the hours I've spent checking out your rail links. Many thanks!!
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Message 1668691 - Posted: 23 Apr 2015, 0:33:45 UTC - in response to Message 1668645.  

V20 engines

Not a well written article, but nothing is patently incorrect.
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Message 1668693 - Posted: 23 Apr 2015, 0:35:16 UTC - in response to Message 1668687.  

Some interesting old pictures of Chicago L trains.

Great blog, David! Can't tell you the hours I've spent checking out your rail links. Many thanks!!

This is actually the first one of them I've looked at. I usually save the emails notifying me about them, thinking I'll get to them later. Then I never do.
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Message 1669417 - Posted: 24 Apr 2015, 16:09:41 UTC - in response to Message 1669402.  

Should be posted here?

No the poster is trying to stir up debate so best left where it is.
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Message 1670464 - Posted: 26 Apr 2015, 19:32:15 UTC
Last modified: 26 Apr 2015, 19:33:37 UTC

I've just returned from a few days working in Italy. Every morning on the way to work we saw this "delightful" little train...




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Message 1670551 - Posted: 27 Apr 2015, 4:09:15 UTC

Attention Bernie!

Train 58 City of New Orleans on Monday morning will have five private cars.

Southern Pacific "Birch Grove" (the name was given by Amtrak; SP did not give it a name)
Louisville & Nashville "Oliver Hazard Perry"
Pullman/IC "Baton Rouge" (don't remember its history), "Sky View" (Santa Fe full dome), "Belleville" (California Zephyr sleeper Silver Quail) -- the non-domes are in a vinyl wrap, not actual brown and orange paint.

Train was reported on time out of Memphis.
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Message 1670613 - Posted: 27 Apr 2015, 6:35:27 UTC - in response to Message 1670551.  
Last modified: 27 Apr 2015, 6:36:08 UTC

Attention Bernie!

Train 58 City of New Orleans on Monday morning will have five private cars.

Southern Pacific "Birch Grove" (the name was given by Amtrak; SP did not give it a name)
Louisville & Nashville "Oliver Hazard Perry"
Pullman/IC "Baton Rouge" (don't remember its history), "Sky View" (Santa Fe full dome), "Belleville" (California Zephyr sleeper Silver Quail) -- the non-domes are in a vinyl wrap, not actual brown and orange paint.

Train was reported on time out of Memphis.

Thanks for the heads up, luckily the Chicago camera was fixed late Saturday so I will try for some shots.

Amtrak says currently 21 minutes early at Chicago, 8:39am CT which is 2:39PM BST. It was 40 minutes early yesterday and had to wait at the end of the airline bridge for the 391 to reverse out of Chicago cross the tracks and pass it on the bridge!!
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Message 1670776 - Posted: 27 Apr 2015, 17:26:15 UTC

Attention Bernie (again)!

Train 6 arriving today has new electric motor 642, without most of its paint and markings. It's reported to be detouring to Beech Grove Shop for a "special" paint scheme, with lots of wild speculation about what that will be.

Latest status is it lost an hour between Creston and Mount Pleasant, Iowa, and is now running two hours late. If it holds to that, it would pass the camera at or shortly after 4pm CDT. I'll have to keep an eye on that; if it loses a bit more time, I'll be able to go home after work and get my camera to see it stop here.
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Message 1670801 - Posted: 27 Apr 2015, 18:12:02 UTC - in response to Message 1670776.  

Attention Bernie (again)!

Train 6 arriving today has new electric motor 642, without most of its paint and markings. It's reported to be detouring to Beech Grove Shop for a "special" paint scheme, with lots of wild speculation about what that will be.

Latest status is it lost an hour between Creston and Mount Pleasant, Iowa, and is now running two hours late. If it holds to that, it would pass the camera at or shortly after 4pm CDT. I'll have to keep an eye on that; if it loses a bit more time, I'll be able to go home after work and get my camera to see it stop here.

Nuts. It made up 8 minutes from Mt. Pleasant to Burlington.
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Message 1670804 - Posted: 27 Apr 2015, 18:15:54 UTC - in response to Message 1670801.  

Nuts. It made up 8 minutes from Mt. Pleasant to Burlington.

I'm sure the passengers don't think that is Nuts.
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Message 1670810 - Posted: 27 Apr 2015, 18:38:16 UTC - in response to Message 1670801.  

Attention Bernie (again)!

Train 6 arriving today has new electric motor 642, without most of its paint and markings. It's reported to be detouring to Beech Grove Shop for a "special" paint scheme, with lots of wild speculation about what that will be.

Latest status is it lost an hour between Creston and Mount Pleasant, Iowa, and is now running two hours late. If it holds to that, it would pass the camera at or shortly after 4pm CDT. I'll have to keep an eye on that; if it loses a bit more time, I'll be able to go home after work and get my camera to see it stop here.

Nuts. It made up 8 minutes from Mt. Pleasant to Burlington.

Double nuts. Made up another 15 minutes at Galesburg. I won't get to see it.
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Message 1670812 - Posted: 27 Apr 2015, 18:45:35 UTC - in response to Message 1670804.  

Nuts. It made up 8 minutes from Mt. Pleasant to Burlington.

I'm sure the passengers don't think that is Nuts.

Probably not but on a 51 hour journey 8 minutes it not really noticeable :-)

It is now apparently due in Chicago at 3:57 PM CT, or 9:57 pm BST.

I will be ready but my recent luck with these cameras has been poor!

As you can see here, the City of New Orleans train 58 was early and I got a shot on the bridge, however the sun at that time was not helpful to see details.



I then totally missed the first two cars coming into camera on the reverse.




However got a quite nice one of the Iowa Pacific dome car



And the Pullman behind.



And an overall shot of the whole lot backing into the station.



It seems I may have forgotten to post this pic I got last week form the Rochelle IL camera



Seem it is the $8.3 million UP EC-5 track geometery machine.

Of course it would have looked more impressive if it wasn't being towed!!
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Message 1670820 - Posted: 27 Apr 2015, 19:42:21 UTC - in response to Message 1670812.  
Last modified: 27 Apr 2015, 19:54:10 UTC

Nuts. It made up 8 minutes from Mt. Pleasant to Burlington.

I'm sure the passengers don't think that is Nuts.

Probably not but on a 51 hour journey 8 minutes it not really noticeable :-)

It is now apparently due in Chicago at 3:57 PM CT, or 9:57 pm BST.

I will be ready but my recent luck with these cameras has been poor!

As you can see here, the City of New Orleans train 58 was early and I got a shot on the bridge, however the sun at that time was not helpful to see details.


Hmm. I will have to have a chat with my friend. He said the Pullmans would be on the rear.


I then totally missed the first two cars coming into camera on the reverse.




However got a quite nice one of the Iowa Pacific dome car


I believe it's the only one still in its original stainless steel, with no brown and orange paint. As such, I'm surprised they used it for Pullman service.


And the Pullman behind.


Okay, that's not a Budd car, so the brown and orange are actual paint. The other one is Budd, so its colors are a vinyl wrap.


And an overall shot of the whole lot backing into the station.



It seems I may have forgotten to post this pic I got last week form the Rochelle IL camera



Seem it is the $8.3 million UP EC-5 track geometery machine.

Of course it would have looked more impressive if it wasn't being towed!!

Indeed. Those things are self-propelled.

Nice pics, Bernie.

I hope 10pm isn't too late for you to be up. #6 should be going through Mendota right about now.

[edit]
Here's a nice shot of the Baton Rouge. It was taken in Seattle on August 2013, so my friend was probably the person in charge of it then too.
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Message 1670837 - Posted: 27 Apr 2015, 20:16:08 UTC
Last modified: 27 Apr 2015, 20:39:21 UTC

I hope 10pm isn't too late for you to be up. #6 should be going through Mendota right about now.


Nope rarely before midnight.

6 currently says "Naperville 3:34PM CT Chicago 4:17PM"

As to late nights, last week I saw this at Berea



Heritage unit NS 8098 Conrail. It so happens that Railstream has a temporary camera at Toledo for "National Train Day" this coming weekend. As I was viewing it about two hours later I saw this.



And it occurred to me that if it was heading for Chicago I could get a good shot at Chesterton, that would be about 5-6 hours time It was 6pm BST when I saw it at Toledo.

So I stayed up, about 00:35 it came through, unfortunately there was an eastbound freight with hoppers on the other track and all I saw was a glimpse of the blue top of the loco. :-(

Of course the annoying post script to this is, what was one of the first trains I saw at Chesterton next day? Yep you guessed



Now in the lead!
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