The train thread

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David S
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Message 1647015 - Posted: 26 Feb 2015, 20:59:41 UTC

The Yellow Ribbon Express

It will be interesting to see which railroads will bend or rescind their limitations on steam if this comes to be.
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Message 1647022 - Posted: 26 Feb 2015, 21:06:06 UTC - in response to Message 1647015.  

If that gets off the ground, would love to visit it.
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Message 1647027 - Posted: 26 Feb 2015, 21:21:50 UTC - in response to Message 1647007.  

From an article on trains.com Newswire--

DARIEN, Conn. – Genesee & Wyoming Inc. has agreed to acquire 95 percent of the shares of Freightliner Group Limited from Arcapita and other shareholders for about $755 million and to assume approximately $13 million in net debt and capitalized leases. Headquartered in London, Freightliner is an international freight rail operator with operations in the United Kingdom, Poland, Germany, the Netherlands, and Australia.


Get ready to see garish orange paint on everything there.


I hope not! Personally I like the 66 in Freightliner colours, better than DB



I really don't think orange will suite them at all!!
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Message 1647038 - Posted: 26 Feb 2015, 21:55:43 UTC
Last modified: 26 Feb 2015, 21:56:05 UTC

Was watching the Chicago cam earlier and all you could see was snow, luckily it cleared up and just got this.



Yet another ACS-64 hauled up from Florin CA.

If they are numbering them in order then nearly half way through!!

Sky looks pretty good as well!!

That is the Lake Shore in the foreground turning on the wye.
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Message 1647039 - Posted: 26 Feb 2015, 21:58:48 UTC - in response to Message 1647027.  

From an article on trains.com Newswire--

DARIEN, Conn. – Genesee & Wyoming Inc. has agreed to acquire 95 percent of the shares of Freightliner Group Limited from Arcapita and other shareholders for about $755 million and to assume approximately $13 million in net debt and capitalized leases. Headquartered in London, Freightliner is an international freight rail operator with operations in the United Kingdom, Poland, Germany, the Netherlands, and Australia.


Get ready to see garish orange paint on everything there.


I hope not! Personally I like the 66 in Freightliner colours, better than DB



I really don't think orange will suite them at all!!

That does look nice.

However, G&W paints everything (in the US at least) like what you see here.
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Message 1647056 - Posted: 26 Feb 2015, 22:52:41 UTC - in response to Message 1647008.  


I have far more trouble with the writing than the accent.


Picky picky picky. A few comments, based on having worked for a supplier of EMD here in London.


- I have never heard a locomotive referred to as "a heavy haul"

That's what EMD called them in the plant. I suspect the TV people picked it up from them.

- I have never heard of a wheel-axle-gear assembly or WAG; I know it as a wheelset
- bogeys (or is it bogies?) are called trucks in North America

Again, standard terminology within EMD.

I'll take your word for it.

- "where tracks are wider and stronger than in most other parts of the world"??? stronger, maybe, but standard gauge (as established by the silly Brits)

Well, maybe, there are lots of narrow gauges around the world too.

Granted, but someone unfamiliar with the subject could get the impression that we have a wider gauge than anyone else in the world.

At 4'8.5"? Nah, that would be Russia and their 5'0" gauge between the rails I think.
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Message 1647131 - Posted: 27 Feb 2015, 2:24:18 UTC - in response to Message 1647056.  


I have far more trouble with the writing than the accent.


Picky picky picky. A few comments, based on having worked for a supplier of EMD here in London.


- I have never heard a locomotive referred to as "a heavy haul"

That's what EMD called them in the plant. I suspect the TV people picked it up from them.

- I have never heard of a wheel-axle-gear assembly or WAG; I know it as a wheelset
- bogeys (or is it bogies?) are called trucks in North America

Again, standard terminology within EMD.

I'll take your word for it.

- "where tracks are wider and stronger than in most other parts of the world"??? stronger, maybe, but standard gauge (as established by the silly Brits)

Well, maybe, there are lots of narrow gauges around the world too.

Granted, but someone unfamiliar with the subject could get the impression that we have a wider gauge than anyone else in the world.

At 4'8.5"? Nah, that would be Russia and their 5'0" gauge between the rails I think.

That is correct, but you and I (and pretty much everyone reading this thread) is familiar with the subject. I'm worried about what people who don't know diddly squat about trains will think when they hear it.
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Message 1647246 - Posted: 27 Feb 2015, 12:14:20 UTC - in response to Message 1647240.  

BBC News

The Pacer trains would contravene disability discrimination legislation from 2020.

Now that is a different matter altogether, and I agree the the preferred 1938 stock wouldn't meet modern requirements. But there is a lesson there somewhere.

I think they probably breach human rights law with regard to disabled people already, and have done for years!

Chris, I know you've actually ridden on these Pacer trains, and got off at an isolated rural station 20 miles (or fifty years) away from the nearest member of railway staff. Without a travelling guard/conductor/ticket seller, who is going to deploy the wheelchair ramps? Is the driver going to lock down the engine controls, and leave the driving cab unattended, to provide mobility assistance? Even a temporary reliance on a zimmer frame can be enough to render public transport inaccessible without human assistance.
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Message 1647249 - Posted: 27 Feb 2015, 13:02:22 UTC - in response to Message 1647240.  

Driverless trains is just the media running their scare tactics to sell papers! There is a very valid reason (for the moment anyway) why driverless trains on the Underground is not possible - Even TFL agree as the following report shows...

Driverless trains "with a driver" :-)

...I do like the designs.

"For despite the occasionally breathless coverage from the media and comments from politicians, the truth is that the NTfL does not signal a tolling bell for the job of Tube driver. Put simply if you are the parent of a child who yearns one day for the pull of the lever and the thrill of the door button, then fear not. We can state with near certainty that by the time they are old enough to enter the work force the Underground will have more, not fewer, Tube drivers than it has now. Indeed should you wish to start a Tube-driving dynasty, then you can be reasonably confident there will be driving jobs on the Underground for your grandchildren as well."

As for the 1938 stock you got to be kidding, even 40 years ago, they were troublesome.
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Message 1647436 - Posted: 27 Feb 2015, 20:31:27 UTC

The strike of the fluffy pink bow ties....
At least they got one thing right - air conditioning doesn't work in the deep tubes. I have my doubts about air cooling on the Victoria line which essentially a deep tube railway with little or no direct access to the surface other than by way of the stations - and with PEDs installed that is going restrict the potential for "fresh" air getting to the trains to do its stuff...
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Message 1647440 - Posted: 27 Feb 2015, 20:38:40 UTC

10,000Amps on a 750hp motor - yes, very possible, and not the inrush, but under controlled high torque low speed conditions with a very low field voltage the ar armature current will go "sky high".
Of course if these are three phase motors then its a fairly easy, and very controllable situation, you pull the voltage and rolling frequency down, while pushing the slip frequency up and the stator current will be very high.


(My initial reaction was "Only 750hp per motor" - too much time spent on the 1Mw and more motors for high speed trains....)
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Message 1647798 - Posted: 28 Feb 2015, 14:54:55 UTC - in response to Message 1647724.  

I was of course mainly referring to underground transport within London with manned stations. With modern trains and track controls guards are not necessary. As I said before, all modern tube trains could be operated fully automatically but the unions insist upon a driver in the cab to protect jobs. But it has to be said that it gives customer confidence to have "a man in the cab", and in an emergency or a breakdown the train can be driven manually.

It seems that you do not read the reports provided & only want to prove your views above all others. I suggest you use the Wiki or whatever research tool you use to learn the difference between ATO & UTO.

One is Automatic Train Operation, the other Unmanned Train Operation. London Underground has always been seen as two separate entities - Tubes & sub-surface Underground. ATO & even UTO can work without any ill effects on the Tubes, but not on the Underground for various technical reasons.

You as a retired engineer should have realised that had you read that report. As for the Victoria Line, that was meant as an ATO system from the day of its inception - Funny that several years after its implementation that the man on the front actually had to drive them - why is that do you think?
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Message 1647983 - Posted: 28 Feb 2015, 21:44:39 UTC
Last modified: 1 Mar 2015, 0:31:26 UTC

And now for something completely different.

Here is something that David might like.

Since finding the Railstream webcams I have become a bit of an Amtrak fan.

When possible I try to see The Capitol Ltd and The Lake Shore as they pass. both Berea OH and Chesterton IN.

The Capitol, train 29, comes from Washington to Chicago and The Lake Shore train 49 from New York to Chicago, they converge on Cleveland and from Cleveland travel the same route to Chicago, The Capitol Ltd usually runs about an hour in front of the Lake Shore.

Yesterday afternoon I was using the Amtrak "Track a Train" page, where you can view all of Amtrak's trains, where they are and how they are running by clicking on the train icon. I noticed that The Capitol had stopped for an extended period outside Waterloo IN and when I clicked on the train icon, the message said it was unable to give any information due to a "service disruption", strange I thought. Well eventually The Lake Shore went past the still stationary Capitol, it stopoped as scheduled at Waterloo and then the little icon switched directions and it seemed to reverse! Sure enought it stopped next to the Capitol icon, then after a while both started to move in the correct direction together!

Had the Lake Shore stopped to rescue a stranded Capitol, well luckily they were still a way from Chesterton so I was able to wait, and this is what I saw.

You tube link

Whilst like your average railfan I like order and predictability, I also enjoy the unexpected:-)
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Message 1648111 - Posted: 1 Mar 2015, 6:56:11 UTC

MMmm, I didn't see the rescue, just a train cruising thru Bernie.
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Message 1648118 - Posted: 1 Mar 2015, 7:22:20 UTC - in response to Message 1648111.  
Last modified: 1 Mar 2015, 7:25:38 UTC

MMmm, I didn't see the rescue, just a train cruising thru Bernie.

It's actually two trains coupled together. About half-way through is the engine for the broke train, followed by its cars. (Had to watch it several times, either YouTube or my Internet feed were being fussy today).
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Message 1648124 - Posted: 1 Mar 2015, 7:50:53 UTC - in response to Message 1648118.  

MMmm, I didn't see the rescue, just a train cruising thru Bernie.

It's actually two trains coupled together. About half-way through is the engine for the broke train, followed by its cars. (Had to watch it several times, either YouTube or my Internet feed were being fussy today).

Yes it was really for train buffs, Donald is right. The Lake Shore comes through first with 11 coaches then loco number 12 (the one with the problem)and the Capitol Ltd are on the rear.

Interesting to train buffs possibly not to anyone else.
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Message 1648162 - Posted: 1 Mar 2015, 10:48:44 UTC - in response to Message 1648160.  

I think it's a shame but there you are ....

East Coast

It's just a job-creation scheme for the paint companies. Some of those trains will have had five different liveries in under 20 years: British Rail, GNER, National Express, East Coast, Virgin/Stagecoach. Doesn't affect the travel experience inside the trains...
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Message 1648165 - Posted: 1 Mar 2015, 11:03:09 UTC - in response to Message 1647724.  

Talking of which...

But turning to overground rail services, I can remember in the 50's all the slam door trains on Southern Railways. They would arrive at Waterloo, Victoria, or London Bridge in the rush hour and all the doors would be flung open as the train was slowing, and passengers would leap off and go running along the platform before the train had stopped! Going home at night it was not unusual to see doors opened after the train had started moving and someone risking life and limb to climb in, with the porter furiously blowing his whistle and screaming stand away!

Would you believe I've actually done that, locally, within the last 20 years? Except there wasn't a porter, of course.

In 1991, the line was electrified at 25 kV AC Overhead between Leeds and Skipton, and new British Rail Class 333 trains were introduced in the early 2000s.

So what did we do with our shiny new electric wires for ten years before the Class 333s arrived? Borrowed some cast-off Class 308 slam-doors from Liverpool Street. They've had a few paint jobs in their Northern travels, too.
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Message 1648205 - Posted: 1 Mar 2015, 15:04:25 UTC

I watched a video on Youtube of Amtraks Acela(3:38:52 or 3 hours, 38 mins, and 52 seconds long in HD, YBW), Amtrak does need to update the track, bridges and catenary on that line in the NEC(not all track in the NEC is owned by Amtrak, some is owned by transit agencies and Amtrak is a Tenant), this was from Boston MA to Penn Station in NY, early on the guy showed the speed the train was going, the highest speed? 152 mph, since this was an express there weren't a whole lot of stops, speeds did drop the closer the train got to New York of course, the main tracks looked well maintained, people had their laptops out and were surfing the web or were doing other tasks, the train went thru Rhode Island and Connecticut on its way to New York. If the train had been noisy I'd have expected sound walls like is out here along the Freeway(Interstate Highway to everyone else), but not one was seen, also No Train Horn was sounded either(No street crossings), lots of building, more trees than one would ever see in Southern California(it's like they go on Forever), a marsh, but no sound walls... Must not be terribly noisy...
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Message 1648213 - Posted: 1 Mar 2015, 15:38:51 UTC

I've just listened to the first few minutes.
There is plenty of saloon ambient noise, but the external sounds are cut by the insulation - since this is shot from a passenger saloon I wouldn't expect to hear the horn (whereas in the driving cab the horn may well be audible).
Having ridden in both passenger saloons and driving cabs at over 300kph (186mph) on Eurostars I can vouch for the difference in external sound levels.
All in all pretty much what I would expect of a modern high speed train on good track (or at least the bit I watched as it gets clear of Boston).
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