Looks like you got the Pullman cars on the rear end too.

You are right and I had completely forgotten about them!!



A question. Exactly how does the conductor control a 10 car train reversing into what is a very busy station? The do seem to go quite fast!

Here in the UK I am desperately trying to think of a main line passenger train where that happens, and I cannot. Of course all our passenger trains are the "push pull" or double ended type, so I assume it never occurs

---

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-pedestrian-killed-20150204-story.html

A pedestrian was hit and killed early Wednesday by a passenger train in San Marcos in northern San Diego County, according to the Sheriff's Department.

A woman in her 30s was crossing the tracks shortly after 6 a.m. when she was hit by a Sprinter passenger train, said Sheriff's Deputy Anthony Radicia. The crossing gate was down and warning bells and lights were operating, he said.

The Sprinter is a light-rail train run by the North County Transit District on a route between Oceanside and Escondido.

The woman was declared dead at the scene.

---

A question. Exactly how does the conductor control a 10 car train reversing into what is a very busy station? The do seem to go quite fast!

Here in the UK I am desperately trying to think of a main line passenger train where that happens, and I cannot. Of course all our passenger trains are the "push pull" or double ended type, so I assume it never occurs

Wweelllllll..... They use their radio to tell the engineer what to do. The only thing Amtrak guys ever do on a move like that is dump the air if they feel they need to make an emergency stop. (Actually, the first thing they do is dump it to make sure it works. Then they proceed with the backup move when the air recovers.)

Out at the museum, we still practice the art of using a tailhose to control a train's speed. On this page, click the fourth picture (heavy man in a white shirt on the back of an old coach). Then click the square thing with arrows that appears in the top left corner of the picture when you mouse over it. You still can't see the details, though. At the top end of the tailhose, there's a little air whistle with a pushbutton (both the whistle and the button are really annoying) and there's a valve that releases air from the brake pipe. Crank it all the way open suddenly (or even just part way but too fast) and you go into emergency. Open it slowly and the brakes apply, more as you release more pressure. I've done this a few times; I need more practice before I try to qualify and become a conductor.

(In the picture, the other end of the hose hasn't been connected to the brake hose yet. The gentleman is Rich Witt; I did a day of streetcar training with him.)

---

David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

A question. Exactly how does the conductor control a 10 car train reversing into what is a very busy station? The do seem to go quite fast!

Here in the UK I am desperately trying to think of a main line passenger train where that happens, and I cannot. Of course all our passenger trains are the "push pull" or double ended type, so I assume it never occurs

Wweelllllll..... They use their radio to tell the engineer what to do. The only thing Amtrak guys ever do on a move like that is dump the air if they feel they need to make an emergency stop. (Actually, the first thing they do is dump it to make sure it works. Then they proceed with the backup move when the air recovers.)

Out at the museum, we still practice the art of using a tailhose to control a train's speed. On this page, click the fourth picture (heavy man in a white shirt on the back of an old coach). Then click the square thing with arrows that appears in the top left corner of the picture when you mouse over it. You still can't see the details, though. At the top end of the tailhose, there's a little air whistle with a pushbutton (both the whistle and the button are really annoying) and there's a valve that releases air from the brake pipe. Crank it all the way open suddenly (or even just part way but too fast) and you go into emergency. Open it slowly and the brakes apply, more as you release more pressure. I've done this a few times; I need more practice before I try to qualify and become a conductor.

(In the picture, the other end of the hose hasn't been connected to the brake hose yet. The gentleman is Rich Witt; I did a day of streetcar training with him.)

Ah yes I see, the fine art of train control using air pressure. I seem to vaguely remember reading about that somewhere but as I said not something you see here in the UK as there would be a loco or control cab on our passenger trains.

---

A cool video from a few days ago, in New Brunswick. They have just had 3 major storms in 10 days, with some spots getting 3 feet of snow in total. This video reminded me of Bernie's camera falling over, I guess this guy had a better tripod!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Yja2VmZOfdA

---

That guy could do with a bit of help keeping his camera clean, I think this guy might do the trick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMmjSE_d6J0

---

Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

A question. Exactly how does the conductor control a 10 car train reversing into what is a very busy station? The do seem to go quite fast!

Here in the UK I am desperately trying to think of a main line passenger train where that happens, and I cannot. Of course all our passenger trains are the "push pull" or double ended type, so I assume it never occurs

Wweelllllll..... They use their radio to tell the engineer what to do. The only thing Amtrak guys ever do on a move like that is dump the air if they feel they need to make an emergency stop. (Actually, the first thing they do is dump it to make sure it works. Then they proceed with the backup move when the air recovers.)

Out at the museum, we still practice the art of using a tailhose to control a train's speed.

Ah yes I see, the fine art of train control using air pressure. I seem to vaguely remember reading about that somewhere but as I said not something you see here in the UK as there would be a loco or control cab on our passenger trains.

Keep in mind that that train goes 1,000 miles each way, but only goes backwards for a mile and a half 3 times per round trip (into and out of Chicago, and into New Orleans). It would not make a lot of sense to dedicate a loco or cab car (and drag it around) for such little use.

Many of our shorter distance corridor trains do use either a loco at each end or a cab car. The trains from Chicago to Milwaukee usually have a cab car (at the south end, to keep the engine noise away from the passengers as they walk to/from the train in the north end of Union Station) because there's no convenient wye in Milwaukee (actually, the one in Chicago isn't convenient either, considering the short time between when a train arrives and when it departs north again). The ones that run in the 110 MPH territory in Michigan have a loco at each end, not only for convenience but also because they need the extra horsepower to reach that speed. The trains to St. Louis that are allowed to go 110 (3 of the 5 each way daily) also have one at each end, although the wye in STL is very convenient.

California trains use cab cars.

---

David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

Keep in mind that that train goes 1,000 miles each way, but only goes backwards for a mile and a half 3 times per round trip (into and out of Chicago, and into New Orleans). It would not make a lot of sense to dedicate a loco or cab car (and drag it around) for such little use.

I understand that, but if the train has 2 locos, as a lot do, why not one at each end then you wouldn't need a wye as both ways can be forward.

Or is it to do with the loco noise, which is why the sleepers are mostly at the far end?

---

The trains to St. Louis that are allowed to go 110 (3 of the 5 each way daily) also have one at each end.

A question. On a train such as this, the MU controls run the length of the train? Or is there an engineer in each locomotive?

---

In the UK it MU control running the length of the train.

---

Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Keep in mind that that train goes 1,000 miles each way, but only goes backwards for a mile and a half 3 times per round trip (into and out of Chicago, and into New Orleans). It would not make a lot of sense to dedicate a loco or cab car (and drag it around) for such little use.

I understand that, but if the train has 2 locos, as a lot do, why not one at each end then you wouldn't need a wye as both ways can be forward.

Or is it to do with the loco noise, which is why the sleepers are mostly at the far end?

The City of New Orleans and the Texas Eagle usually run with one. To also answer J.'s question, if there is one at each end, the MU runs through all the cars. However, I don't think Superliners (at least most of them) have MU lines. (You do occasionally see a Superliner mixed into a Cal train.)

Amfleet cars have mostly, if not all, been converted to include MU lines. Whether this has been done may or may not be reflected by the car number. All Amfleet cars were originally in the 2xxxx series. As they were upgraded, some went to the 4xxxx series. Another upgrade program put them in the 8xxxx series. I had thought they just changed the first digit and kept the rest of them the same, but I just did a quick bit of research and found out that they were numbered in the order they were converted, regardless of previous number. ...Oh, I see. Upgraded coaches without MU were numbered in the 820xx range. Upgraded coaches with MU are 825xx, even if they previously had an 820xx number. The list I'm looking at shows coaches going up to 82999. Business class cars are 81xxx, again with a 3rd digit of 5 if they have MU. Cafe cars are 85xxx, also with a 3rd digit 5 to indicate MU.

I'm pretty sure all Horizon Fleet cars were built with MU. (Too bad they weren't built with decent insulation on their plumbing...) Surfliner/California cars were designed to run push-pull, so of course they have MU.

And yes, all Metra (and every commuter agency I know of) cars have MU lines through them.

(Historical factoid: Amfleet was based on the design of the original Metroliners, which were designed for the Pennsylvania Railroad (delivered to Penn Central) to replace aging electric MU cars between New York and Washington. They were never quite successful and eventually Amtrak depowered them and hauled them behind diesel or electric locos, calling trains of these and/or Amfleet "Metroliner Service" when running on expedited schedules between Boston and Washington. In the 1980s, someone had the bright idea of taking a single converted Metroliner and using it as a cab car on the end of a train of Amfleet cars in the Midwest and California. I don't believe any are still performing as such. Some might still be in service as regular coaches with the cab controls removed.)

---

David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

I haven't rode the GO Train here in Ontario in a few years, but they used to have an engine at one end, and a passenger car with a driver's cab at the other end. The trains ran a back and forth shuttle between the east and west suburbs of Toronto, and the engineer would move from engine to end car (or vice-versa) at each end of the run.

In this pic, the closest train is coming towards you, the driver is at the right (in the picture) front window.

---

I haven't rode the GO Train here in Ontario in a few years, but they used to have an engine at one end, and a passenger car with a driver's cab at the other end. The trains ran a back and forth shuttle between the east and west suburbs of Toronto, and the engineer would move from engine to end car (or vice-versa) at each end of the run.

In this pic, the closest train is coming towards you, the driver is at the right (in the picture) front window.

Exactly. That's pretty much how all diesel commuter trains in North America run. The only difference is that with the cars use in Chicago, the engineer has to go up to the upper lever to get into the cab. (I believe they prefer it that way; they're up out of the direct contact zone if they hit a auto. I think it may even by written into the union contract on BNSF's former CB&Q lines that cab cars cannot be at normal height like in your picture.) Miami, Seattle, Los Angeles, and I think Dallas/Ft. Worth use the kind of cars in this picture.

Electric trains can either use the same cars with an electric loco, or the cars can each have their own motors (and associated equipment) and a cab at one end. Usually, such cars run in pairs semi-permanently coupled with a drawbar. Metra has one line that runs this way, plus the South Shore which runs on Metra Electric tracks to the south side of the city, then curves east around Lake Michigan and runs to South Bend, Indiana.

The museum is getting four cars being retired from Metra Electric, two to restore and two for parts. I think I might help with that restoration and hope to learn to run them. (It is only a minor problem that they use 1500 VDC and our wire is 600. Change out the air compressor motor and the motor/generator and we're good to go.)

---

David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

What's a little snow ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Yja2VmZOfdA

---

(Emergency) Stopping with modern brake control isn't too much of problem.
What is a problem is speed control over "humps and bumps" - with trains of several km length you can have the head of the train on a downhill, with the next bit on an uphill, and the tail on a downhill (or any combination).

The current longest, and heaviest trains, are a pair of ore trains, one an Australian and the other a South African, both over 9km long, and 99,000/72,000 tonnes respectively (in my book the narrow gauge SA train is the winner). Both these trains are about double size of the "normal" trains on their routes, and had to run under special pathing so they could get through...

(and in both cases it was a single driver in the leading cab, with relief and supporting drivers in a support vehicle, but not in the driving cabs of the other locos in the consists.

[edit]
I should declare an interest in the SA monster, a friend was on the support crew for the train, and spent most of the time sitting in the cab of the second loco monitoring all the locos and a number of the couplers just to make sure they didn't break anything. Further, I was involved in coming up with the scheme for the monitoring equipment, and spent a "happy" few hours sitting "in the dark" when the phone line went down into the office in the UK...

---

Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

And there wasn't a proper Guards Van on the back either ....

Nor will you find one on any UK freight train no matter how short or long.

You may of course find an EOT or FRED

End of train device

Although I believe most in the UK are "dumb"

PS freight by rail in the USA has boomed so much in the past few years they are having problems finding enough rolling stock to cope.

So high costs don't seem to factor in there.

---

The art with all these heavy trains is smoothness, modern heavy freight couplers will stand the normal coupling forces without too much trouble, but get one power-snatch, even with a "standard" UK 2000tonne freight train and the coupler will give up. I can't comment on the control of the Australian train, but the SA trains have "staggered notching", thus if the driver notches up his loco will take the notch, then a short time later the next one, and so on along the power string.

That said, notching is becoming a thing of the past with moves towards "continuous linear control", where the driver moves the controller by a few percent (or even a lot of percent) and the control system "de-bounces" and linearises the change in demand, giving each loco in the string a tractive effort target, and a rate of change to achieve that target - all very clever, and very effective, if not essential given the locos themselves may (will) be of different types, and will be spread over the length of the train. This target is then moderated by the locos to take account of the gradient at the point of demand and what the other locos are doing - yes it is a bit like juggling swords while wearing a blindfold with one arm tied behind your back....

(The real fun is when going downhill and you get a message from one of the locos "my brake resistors are getting a bit too hot - These super trains use the locos as much for braking as for dragging, so you have to start an additional loco, run it up in brake, while blending out the failing loco until its brake resistors have cooled down to a safe level. All this is done without the driver having to do anything, but he does get a message to say it is happening

---

Bob Smith
Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society)
Somewhere in the (un)known Universe?

Oh, we have trains much longer than that. Canadian National is especially known for them, and now that CN's retired CEO E. Hunter Harrison has become the CEO of Canadian Pacific, so is it.

Cabooses mostly disappeared 30+ years ago. Occasionally you will find one used as a shoving platform where a local operation requires a long backup move, so a crew member doesn't have to hang on the last car the whole way. However, shoving platforms are no longer outfitted with all the amenities they had as cabooses (cabeese?).

To help with coupler strain and, more importantly, "stinglining" (as in what happens to a string laid out in a curved pattern when you pull on the ends) distributed power units can be placed at the rear and anywhere in the middle and controlled by digital radio from the front. Their throttles can either be slaved to the lead engines or be controlled independently. DPUs also help with braking, both setting the brakes and pumping up the air again.

---

David
Sitting on my butt while others boldly go,
Waiting for a message from a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri.

Changing the subject slightly, I have just been reminded of the Southwest Chief I saw leave last week (before the snow).

I wondered if they did it purposely and if there was anyone on board who was superstitious!!



Interestingly on it's return 4 days later it was 10 and 13

---

And there wasn't a proper Guards Van on the back either ....

Nor will you find one on any UK freight train no matter how short or long.

You may of course find an EOT or FRED

End of train device

Although I believe most in the UK are "dumb"

PS freight by rail in the USA has boomed so much in the past few years they are having problems finding enough rolling stock to cope.

So high costs don't seem to factor in there.

The canal widening down in Panama should help with that freight car shortage, maybe.

2014-02-14 Panama Canal expansion, new locks into Lake Gatun - work stopped due to cost overruns

SPECIAL REPORT: Panama Canal Expansion to Forever Change U.S. Ports

---

The T1 Trust, PRR T1 Class 4-4-4-4 #5550, 1 of America's First HST's