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Profile dancer42
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Message 1356990 - Posted: 14 Apr 2013, 23:22:57 UTC

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp


for those who want to argue pro or con on guns.

note the steep drop in homicides after conceal carry passes in several states.
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Message 1357127 - Posted: 15 Apr 2013, 9:08:37 UTC

I also note the apparent increase after the UK compulsorily handing in of all hand guns. I have great difficulty in assimilating those figures. On the face of it we are safer when people are allowed to have guns than when they are not, and that just doesn't make sense to me. I will dispute those figures and see if I can find some alternative ones.

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Message 1357160 - Posted: 15 Apr 2013, 11:11:07 UTC

I am not taking any stand here, but this could be considered information where gun control worked.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/03/us-usa-guns-australia-idUSBRE9320C720130403

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Message 1357193 - Posted: 15 Apr 2013, 13:11:20 UTC

So, Marco, we have a violence problem? 2 months ago, the line from your side was "We have a mental health problem in this country." Background checks will hinder the law abiding citizens and criminals will ignore them? Hmmm. Everybody that commits a criminal act was a criminal from birth? No one was ever a law abiding citizen, but then snapped? Yeah, not only do we have a mental health problem in this country, but people do not even understand the problem.

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Message 1357198 - Posted: 15 Apr 2013, 13:28:34 UTC

Here is more. Once again I am not taking a stand one way or the other, but presenting information.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/jan/24/fact-checking-claims-guns-and-gun-violence/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

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Message 1357307 - Posted: 15 Apr 2013, 19:33:35 UTC - in response to Message 1357193.

So, Marco, we have a violence problem? 2 months ago, the line from your side was "We have a mental health problem in this country." Background checks will hinder the law abiding citizens and criminals will ignore them? Hmmm. Everybody that commits a criminal act was a criminal from birth? No one was ever a law abiding citizen, but then snapped? Yeah, not only do we have a mental health problem in this country, but people do not even understand the problem.

+1

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Message 1357354 - Posted: 15 Apr 2013, 22:32:14 UTC

People can be "normal" well into adulthood, then things go wrong. And with that "normality" follows law-abiding. After things go wrong, there MAY be criminal acts that follow.
Also, "why the change in narrative?"
When a politician cannot stick to narrative, you may want to worry about HIS or HER mental health.

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Message 1357410 - Posted: 16 Apr 2013, 2:56:04 UTC

Scincemansteve yes gun crime has gone down after the gov's buy back and changes and as more illegal guns have come back into the country gun crime has started to go up but thankfully it's only the crimes killing each other and not normal people just loseing there temper or the nutters like Briant getting them

We appore the gun culture of America and think it is stupid

Only farmers ,police ,a1 licenced security people ,armed forces ,Licenced Hunters or sporting shooters need guns and even then only bolt action not semi auto or full automatic guns

Only a bad hunter needs a automatic gun
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Message 1357411 - Posted: 16 Apr 2013, 3:06:02 UTC

There has been NO mass killings in oz scince the gun laws where changed that's 10 yrs I think now gun control does work but only if the whole country adopts it
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Message 1357478 - Posted: 16 Apr 2013, 9:33:32 UTC

I would have thought that less guns around means less killings, but perhaps gun ownership means that people don't take a chance of pulling a gun on someone else if they are just as likely to pull one back at them.

My stance has always been that I live in a gun free country and always have done, it is just a natural environment to me. The same way that having guns is to Americans. The original reason for the USA to have armed citizens was to enable if necessary, a militia to topple a corrupt government. These days we use the ballot box and impeachment, therefore I maintain that the original reason is simply not valid today. However I don't live in America and I wasn't brought up there, so they probably have the view that it is a natural environment.

It just seems to me that Americans have guns because they want to have them, because they always have done, not because they need to. What I have also noted is that some vets here who have said that when in service their allegiance was to god, and yet the enlistment oath says to defend their country and obey the orders of the President. What happens then if a superior officer says the President is corrupt and needs to be removed from power?

In the UK, HM the Queen is the de facto head of the armed forces and the military swear an oath of allegiance to the Queen. If they went to topple the Monarchy or the government that would be seen as High Treason. The penalty for treason was changed from death to a maximum of imprisonment for life in 1998. Before then the death penalty was mandatory, subject to the royal prerogative of mercy.

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Message 1357506 - Posted: 16 Apr 2013, 12:03:50 UTC

Nice to see that you seem to agree with me Chris . We woke up after Briant went on a rampage in the late 90's or could have been around 2000 I man killing 34 people in Tasmainia was enough to change peoples attitude to automatic weapons I hope the U.S also wakes up and he wasn't the first but was the last person to do something like that.
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Message 1357543 - Posted: 16 Apr 2013, 14:19:16 UTC - in response to Message 1357478.
Last modified: 16 Apr 2013, 14:20:47 UTC

I would have thought that less guns around means less killings, but perhaps gun ownership means that people don't take a chance of pulling a gun on someone else if they are just as likely to pull one back at them.

My stance has always been that I live in a gun free country and always have done, it is just a natural environment to me. The same way that having guns is to Americans. The original reason for the USA to have armed citizens was to enable if necessary, a militia to topple a corrupt government. These days we use the ballot box and impeachment, therefore I maintain that the original reason is simply not valid today. However I don't live in America and I wasn't brought up there, so they probably have the view that it is a natural environment.

It just seems to me that Americans have guns because they want to have them, because they always have done, not because they need to. What I have also noted is that some vets here who have said that when in service their allegiance was to god, and yet the enlistment oath says to defend their country and obey the orders of the President. What happens then if a superior officer says the President is corrupt and needs to be removed from power?

In the UK, HM the Queen is the de facto head of the armed forces and the military swear an oath of allegiance to the Queen. If they went to topple the Monarchy or the government that would be seen as High Treason. The penalty for treason was changed from death to a maximum of imprisonment for life in 1998. Before then the death penalty was mandatory, subject to the royal prerogative of mercy.


Chris The UCMJ for our military says that you do not have to carry out an unlawfull order. However that is a catch 22 in my thinking. The Nurmeberg trials after WW2 had all the German soldiers claiming I was just following orders. Well A lot were hung and imprisoned. Lt. Calley during Viet Nam claimed the same.

There is a fine line between failure to obey an unlawfull order and mutiny.

There is one good movie that puts it right out front. Its the Denzil Washington and Gene Hackman movie Crimson Tide. Yes its just a movie, But having been in the service for 8 years I have read the UCMJ.

Its all ups to the men who give and recieve the orders as to how it turns out.
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Message 1357559 - Posted: 16 Apr 2013, 14:52:13 UTC

So, force of personality determines mankinds future then?

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Message 1357561 - Posted: 16 Apr 2013, 14:56:54 UTC - in response to Message 1357559.

So, force of personality determines mankinds future then?



Isnt it allways that way?
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Message 1357633 - Posted: 16 Apr 2013, 22:47:49 UTC - in response to Message 1357559.

So, force of personality determines mankinds future then?

And this surprises you?

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Message 1357726 - Posted: 17 Apr 2013, 8:47:44 UTC

No, I suppose it doesn't. We are seeing a form of that in NK now in another thread.

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Message 1357764 - Posted: 17 Apr 2013, 13:04:52 UTC

Dictators and Gov's that need a Milita to overthrow it don't care about constitutions , then change them to suit them self's so why have the 2nd amendment or what ever it is , there at all ?
It only suits those whom wish to do things like Boston !! gun powder ?

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Message 1357766 - Posted: 17 Apr 2013, 13:08:21 UTC - in response to Message 1357764.

Dictators and Gov's that need a Milita to overthrow it don't care about constitutions , then change them to suit them self's so why have the 2nd amendment or what ever it is , there at all ?
It only suits those whom wish to do things like Boston !! gun powder ?


Gun powder isnt the only thing you can use. There is a whole host of chemicals that you can throw together.
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Message 1357769 - Posted: 17 Apr 2013, 13:17:19 UTC - in response to Message 1357766.

Gun powder isnt the only thing you can use. There is a whole host of chemicals that you can throw together

you've answered your own question ???

why ??

maybe reasonable laws ?
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Message boards : Politics : interesting gun facts

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