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msattler
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Message 1336347 - Posted: 9 Feb 2013, 21:30:29 UTC - in response to Message 1336344.

Many public schools and such will not host them because they are a "religious organization" even though they are multi religious. This is an effect of court rulings against public funds being spent on religious organizations. The troop I grew up with was kicked out of the public schools and is now in a church because of this.

I agree that discrimination based on sexual orientation is wrong, but we have to work on the place that is promulgating this discrimination, which is many churches.


Perhaps the Boy Scouts will ultimately decide to change their religious orientation requirement as well? Has that organization always been multi-religious? Was there a time during which youngsters of other faiths were excluded?

I did not grow up an atheist, but I am one now. I remember regularly pledging to "serve God" as part of my Girl Scout Pledge. I got curious and googled the updated Girl Scout pledge. Sure enough, serving God is still a part of it.

I have absolutely wonderful memories of being a Girl Scout, but I think that if Eric and I had been "blessed" with children, we would have gone the Campfire Girl route for our girls. I do not know if there is an equivalent organization for boys.



Angela.......
You and I seldom stand on opposite sides. But I somehow deep inside, feel that God, his teachings, and faith in him to guide our lives is a big part of what has been lost in this country, and said loss of those values contributes greatly to our current woes.

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Message 1336349 - Posted: 9 Feb 2013, 21:32:50 UTC

I dunno kids......
At some point, you will so dilute the Boy/Girl scouts that the moniker no longer has any more meaning or significance. 'Scout's honor'?


Mark, this is the current Girl Scout pledge and law.

On my honor, I will try:
To serve God and my country,
To help people at all times,
And to live by the Girl Scout Law.

The Girl Scout Law

I will do my best to be
honest and fair,
friendly and helpful,
considerate and caring,
courageous and strong, and
responsible for what I say and do,
and to
respect myself and others,
respect authority,
use resources wisely,
make the world a better place, and
be a sister to every Girl Scout.

Except for the God part, I like the whole darn thing!!! If this is what Girl Scouts currently stand for, I'm pretty much for it. Just needs some minor "tweaking" as far as I'm concerned.

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Message 1336351 - Posted: 9 Feb 2013, 21:35:22 UTC

Angela.......
You and I seldom stand on opposite sides. But I somehow deep inside, feel that God, his teachings, and faith in him to guide our lives is a big part of what has been lost in this country, and said loss of those values contributes greatly to our current woes.


Mark, you and I FREQUENTLY stand on opposite sides. It is my pinko-liberal bias towards TOLERANCE that helps me count you daily as one of my friends.

msattler
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Message 1336354 - Posted: 9 Feb 2013, 21:36:58 UTC - in response to Message 1336349.

I dunno kids......
At some point, you will so dilute the Boy/Girl scouts that the moniker no longer has any more meaning or significance. 'Scout's honor'?


Mark, this is the current Girl Scout pledge and law.

On my honor, I will try:
To serve God and my country,
To help people at all times,
And to live by the Girl Scout Law.

The Girl Scout Law

I will do my best to be
honest and fair,
friendly and helpful,
considerate and caring,
courageous and strong, and
responsible for what I say and do,
and to
respect myself and others,
respect authority,
use resources wisely,
make the world a better place, and
be a sister to every Girl Scout.

Except for the God part, I like the whole darn thing!!! If this is what Girl Scouts currently stand for, I'm pretty much for it. Just needs some minor "tweaking" as far as I'm concerned.

And such 'tweaking' would involve removing God and what he stands for?

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John McLeod VII
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Message 1336355 - Posted: 9 Feb 2013, 21:37:01 UTC - in response to Message 1336344.

Many public schools and such will not host them because they are a "religious organization" even though they are multi religious. This is an effect of court rulings against public funds being spent on religious organizations. The troop I grew up with was kicked out of the public schools and is now in a church because of this.

I agree that discrimination based on sexual orientation is wrong, but we have to work on the place that is promulgating this discrimination, which is many churches.


Perhaps the Boy Scouts will ultimately decide to change their religious orientation requirement as well? Has that organization always been multi-religious? Was there a time during which youngsters of other faiths were excluded?

I did not grow up an atheist, but I am one now. I remember regularly pledging to "serve God" as part of my Girl Scout Pledge. I got curious and googled the updated Girl Scout pledge. Sure enough, serving God is still a part of it.

I have absolutely wonderful memories of being a Girl Scout, but I think that if Eric and I had been "blessed" with children, we would have gone the Campfire Girl route for our girls. I do not know if there is an equivalent organization for boys.



Cub Scouts (which is where I am a leader currently) have no sexual orientation as they are much too young. However, the adults (parents and leaders) do. There have been cases where leaders and older boys have been ejected from the Boy Scouts over their sexual orientation.
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Message 1336359 - Posted: 9 Feb 2013, 21:43:22 UTC

And such 'tweaking' would involve removing God and what he stands for?

I believe that what a God SHOULD stand for is very well represented in that Girl Scout law. I would remove the part about serving God, but keep in all those other lovely attributes.

Honesty, fairness, friendliness, helpfulness, consideration, caring, courage, strength, responsibility, self-respect, respect for others, respect for authority, the wise use of resources, striving to make the world a better place and a sense of sisterhood are not the exclusive domain of religion, my friend.

msattler
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Message 1336360 - Posted: 9 Feb 2013, 21:43:52 UTC - in response to Message 1336355.


Cub Scouts (which is where I am a leader currently) have no sexual orientation as they are much too young. However, the adults (parents and leaders) do. There have been cases where leaders and older boys have been ejected from the Boy Scouts over their sexual orientation.

And you have a problem with that? I am sorry, but the majority of people are 'normal' hetero men and women, who just might have a problem with having somebody who is gay trying to teach their children anything about ideals.

And let me get this straight (no pun intended).....
I hate nobody based on their sexual preferences. I know some gays......and although I would not go out of my way to be friends with them, I would not go out of my way to kick them either.
You know I have posted about a past fleeting relationship with Joan Jett. I know who she is and what she is. Her inner self and what she feels never stopped me from falling head over heals in love with her at first kiss.


____________
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I have met a few friends in my life.
Most were cats.

msattler
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Message 1336362 - Posted: 9 Feb 2013, 21:45:56 UTC - in response to Message 1336359.

And such 'tweaking' would involve removing God and what he stands for?

I believe that what a God SHOULD stand for is very well represented in that Girl Scout law. I would remove the part about serving God, but keep in all those other lovely attributes.

Honesty, fairness, friendliness, helpfulness, consideration, caring, courage, strength, responsibility, self-respect, respect for others, respect for authority, the wise use of resources, striving to make the world a better place and a sense of sisterhood are not the exclusive domain of religion, my friend.

Given, Angela. I just happen to be old school, and believe that serving God should be part of it. I have done far too little of it myself over the years.
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Message 1336365 - Posted: 9 Feb 2013, 21:49:04 UTC

I am sorry, but the majority of people are 'normal' hetero men and women, who just might have a problem with having somebody who is gay trying to teach their children anything about ideals.

I think that people who categorically think that people who are gay have nothing to teach are ultimately hurting themselves and their children.

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Message 1336367 - Posted: 9 Feb 2013, 21:49:19 UTC

I think it is worthwhile remembering the background of scouting, which actually has a paramilitary flavour. Baden Powell, later Lord, served in the British Army during the Boer War in 1899-1902 in South Africa. He was very impressed with the local youngsters who were the forward scouting patrols for the army, reporting back upon the enemy. They were a very tightly knit bunch who looked out for each other, and were well skilled in field craft, stalking, etc. The camaraderie amongst them was unusual for the time.

During his time in the Army he had written a book called "Aids to Scouting" which outlined his methods of Army Training, this book was published in England during the time of the Makeking siege. On his return to England he found that boys had brought copies of the book and formed themselves into groups and were calling themselves "Boy Scouts" and were practicing his "scoutcraft" ideas.

In 1907 he thought that this concept could be applied to peacetime as well, with a few adult helpers set up his camp on Brownsea Island, in Poole Harbour, Dorset. 20 boys, from different walks of life were divided in to Patrols with an older boy in charge of each group. At the camp the boys had a time of their life doing such things as swimming, stalking, hiking and playing games and around the nightly campfire listened to BP telling stories of his adventures.

Scout troops needed places to meet, and local church halls were ideal, hence the religious input from local churches. Which in the pre war period had far more sway than they do today. The Scout Promise, Law, and Motto stems from those times.

The Scout Promise

On my honour, I promise that I will do my best
To do my duty to God and to the Queen,
To help other people
And to keep the Scout Law

The Scout Law

A Scout is to be trusted.
A Scout is loyal.
A Scout is friendly and considerate.
A Scout belongs to the worldwide family of Scouts.
A Scout has courage in all difficulties.
A Scout makes good use of time and is careful of possessions and property.
A Scout has self-respect and respect for others.

The Scout Motto

Be Prepared

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Message 1336370 - Posted: 9 Feb 2013, 21:57:52 UTC

Cub Scouts (which is where I am a leader currently) have no sexual orientation as they are much too young. However, the adults (parents and leaders) do. There have been cases where leaders and older boys have been ejected from the Boy Scouts over their sexual orientation.


Yes, I know. Tim Curran was one of my neighbors when I was a teenager growing up in Oakland, CA.

msattler
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Message 1336371 - Posted: 9 Feb 2013, 22:00:39 UTC

I Want To Break Free.
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Profile Angela
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Message 1336374 - Posted: 9 Feb 2013, 22:02:14 UTC

I believe Tom Lehrer said it best...

Be prepared

msattler
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Message 1336376 - Posted: 9 Feb 2013, 22:06:50 UTC - in response to Message 1336374.

I believe Tom Lehrer said it best...

Be prepared

LOL....Angela.
You know I and Lehrer go waaaaaaaaaaay back.

You opened this door, I merely walked through it.
____________
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I have met a few friends in my life.
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msattler
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Message 1336377 - Posted: 9 Feb 2013, 22:09:14 UTC
Last modified: 9 Feb 2013, 22:09:31 UTC

Uhh, and if memory serves, you kids once jerked my post of this Lehrer song.....don't recall just why.
The Vatican Rag.....
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Message 1336378 - Posted: 9 Feb 2013, 22:10:00 UTC

Anyone wanting to be a Boy Scout or Girl Guide leader in the UK has to go through a security check with the CRB, POVA, & 99 list. As far as I know, those who are openly gay are not allowed.

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Message 1336379 - Posted: 9 Feb 2013, 22:13:00 UTC - in response to Message 1336360.


Cub Scouts (which is where I am a leader currently) have no sexual orientation as they are much too young. However, the adults (parents and leaders) do. There have been cases where leaders and older boys have been ejected from the Boy Scouts over their sexual orientation.

And you have a problem with that? I am sorry, but the majority of people are 'normal' hetero men and women, who just might have a problem with having somebody who is gay trying to teach their children anything about ideals.

And let me get this straight (no pun intended).....
I hate nobody based on their sexual preferences. I know some gays......and although I would not go out of my way to be friends with them, I would not go out of my way to kick them either.
You know I have posted about a past fleeting relationship with Joan Jett. I know who she is and what she is. Her inner self and what she feels never stopped me from falling head over heals in love with her at first kiss.


I have no problem with someone that is not heterosexual teaching my children. I do have a problem with kicking people out of an organization based on this. Yes, the majority of adults are heterosexual, however, there is no reason to be afraid of non-heterosexuals.

Pedophiles are a different story, and they should be ejected from any position where there is any contact with children. If detected after they act on this, they should be jailed. However, please note that gay != pedophile.
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Message 1336382 - Posted: 9 Feb 2013, 22:17:38 UTC

Well folks, we are getting quite a way away from the thread title which is Raccoon Update XVI - All Are Welcome In the Critter Cafe.

Perhaps we should discuss whether sexual orientation or religion should be part of scouting or guiding in the politics thread?

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Message 1336383 - Posted: 9 Feb 2013, 22:17:59 UTC - in response to Message 1336379.



Pedophiles are a different story, and they should be ejected from any position where there is any contact with children. If detected after they act on this, they should be jailed. However, please note that gay != pedophile.

Some do equate the two.......
I am not one of them however.
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Message 1336385 - Posted: 9 Feb 2013, 22:21:17 UTC - in response to Message 1336382.

Well folks, we are getting quite a way away from the thread title which is Raccoon Update XVI - All Are Welcome In the Critter Cafe.

Perhaps we should discuss whether sexual orientation or religion should be part of scouting or guiding in the politics thread?


+100
____________


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