When are Christians going to start standing up for God.........


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WinterKnight
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Message 1337223 - Posted: 11 Feb 2013, 22:49:35 UTC - in response to Message 1337209.

your country was based on secularism. They didn't want religion interfering in Gov't. This is something that the socalled southern bible thumping representatives conveniently forget when they spew their dreck about a christian country.

The fact is the Constitution not the Declaration of Independence makes no reference to Christianity. Only that gov't shall not establish a national religion nor enforce one. It seems odd that they'd intetionally keep out religion from gov't while crazy @$$ evangelical are hell bent to get it in gov't. Seems the US has its own source of terrorists.

Terrorists leaders rely on uneducated ignorant people to do the bidding of the terrorist organizations without question. Evangelicals feed on the same pool of victims. Poor under or uneducated Christians are easily manipulated into believing anything their leaders tell them, all in defense of Christianity in their own image


Your ignorance of our founding is astounding! I have given quote after quote, after quote of our founders.

The seperation so called clause is NOT a clause it was set so NO Church would be a one size fits all at the federal level. Such states as MARYland had at one time a state Faith. Others also had such state Faiths.

The fact is the Constitution does make reference to Christianity....
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independance of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,

The above document taken with the INTENT document called The Declaration of Independence gives the TOTAL and whole picture.

Secularists Leaders rely on uneducated ignorant people to do the bidding of secularists organizations without question. Ignorant Elected Secularists Leaders feed on the same pool of victims. Poor or uneducated Christians who have been indoctrinated IN Secularists state schools are easily manipulated into believing anything their Secularists leaders tell them, all in defense of Secularism in their own image, man made image.

Where does your underlined bit mention Christianity?
You might say in the second phrase where is says "in the year of our Lord". But that ignores the fact that was a way of refering to the date at that time, a time considerably different to our own. And also you will find if you did your research properly that "in the year of our Lord" was not in the original draft, it was probably inserted by a scribe, to ensure it was different from the European way of dating documents with reference to the Monarchs reign as in "fifth year of the reign of King George".

Or it might have been ordered to be inserted by James Madison.

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Message 1337224 - Posted: 11 Feb 2013, 22:54:57 UTC - in response to Message 1337221.

Well the first underlined section looks very much like one of the current humanist blessings, shifted back a couple of hundred years in its language, rather than which a then contemporary Christian writer would use which would be something along the lines "under the guidance and protection of Our Lord Jesus Christ.


LOL, you don't take into account Jefferson or James Madison.

The second is what was then the normal manner of describing the date in all legal documents, and so proves nothing apart from the fact we are looking at a legal document.


No longer done...
Once again, you don't take into account Jefferson or James Madison.


What makes you think that Thomas Jefferson was a Christian, yes he liked the moral teachings of the Bible, but nothing else. And those moral teachings were around long before the bible was even written.

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Message 1337235 - Posted: 11 Feb 2013, 23:15:56 UTC - in response to Message 1337100.

All law comes from God in some way, shape or form my Country we are a Christian Nation. As Christians we follow Christ. We do not step on another's Faith. Even if that Faith not of Christ. if that person has no Faith at all. As Christians we know that we cannot change a person, they do that themselves.

What country are you from? I don't recognise it from your description.

It is by example that we put--thoughts into someone. What that person does with that thinking is all up to them. Some see it as it is, love. Others see it as it isn't, force. The truth is that one cannot force another to accept anything. Such force is just one saying that accept, it isn't true acceptance of God. Such a thing is a personal choice.

God's morals are something that He has passed down over time to all of us. I'm of the belief that we are born with the basics. A child knows evil when faced with it at a very, very early age. Proof of this has been shown. You believing this proof is not of my concern. I do believe it. I find it proof of God.

If being Christian makes you so moral, why have so many Christians done so many evil things?

Ethics would be man made. They do follow the lines of Gods morals. But they are gray lines, wishy-washy. One example is love. We find in love, least I do, that it is made for one man and one woman. This is for procreation. The stable place for children. This would be morals. Mans ethics say that love can be between one man and more then one woman. And or two men or two ladies. Or any combination there in other then one man and one woman.

Christ had absolutely nothing to say on this issue, so where are you you getting your information from. Please quote the source.

What this boils down to is what a society is willing to accept in general. Just because a majority accept ethics does not make it right morally or ethically. A simple look a Darwin tells us the such relationships as being gay yield nothing for the society in the short term of long term. It is born of self-gratification and gives nothing of use to the whole of society.

Not true. There is a whole lot more that can be done to benefiting society that just breeding. A lot of great advancements have been made by gays, possibly because they are not distractracted and burdened with childrearing. Besides, homosexuality is found in other species.


He has already stated, about a month ago, how he differs with you (or others) on the usage of these two words.
Do you hope to learn something from him or he from you? If not, you are responding ... why?

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Message 1337272 - Posted: 12 Feb 2013, 0:49:34 UTC - in response to Message 1337100.
Last modified: 12 Feb 2013, 0:57:48 UTC

All law comes from God in some way, shape or form my Country we are a Christian Nation. As Christians we follow Christ. We do not step on another's Faith. Even if that Faith not of Christ. if that person has no Faith at all. As Christians we know that we cannot change a person, they do that themselves.

What country are you from? I don't recognise it from your description.


LOL! Try being smart, not a smarta$$.

It is by example that we put--thoughts into someone. What that person does with that thinking is all up to them. Some see it as it is, love. Others see it as it isn't, force. The truth is that one cannot force another to accept anything. Such force is just one saying that they accept, it isn't true acceptance of God. Such a thing is a personal choice.

God's morals are something that He has passed down over time to all of us. I'm of the belief that we are born with the basics. A child knows evil when faced with it at a very, very early age. Proof of this has been shown. You believing this proof is not of my concern. I do believe it. I find it proof of God.


If being Christian makes you so moral, why have so many Christians done so many evil things?


Being Christian makes me BETTER at being moral. All of us have freewill not to be moral. You are a very good example of that FACT.

Ethics would be man made. They do follow the lines of Gods morals. But they are gray lines, wishy-washy. One example is love. We find in love, least I do, that it is made for one man and one woman. This is for procreation. The stable place for children. This would be morals. Mans ethics say that love can be between one man and more then one woman. And or two men or two ladies. Or any combination there in other then one man and one woman.


Christ had absolutely nothing to say on this issue, so where are you you getting your information from. Please quote the source.


God is Three in One. I don't care if you belive that. I do. God, Holy Spirit and Christ makes up the three. So any quote from the Bible comes from Christ Himself.

What this boils down to is what a society is willing to accept in general. Just because a majority accept ethics does not make it right morally or ethically. A simple look a Darwin tells us the such relationships as being gay yield nothing for the society in the short term of long term. It is born of self-gratification and gives nothing of use to the whole of society.



Not true. There is a whole lot more that can be done to benefiting society that just breeding. A lot of great advancements have been made by gays, possibly because they are not distractracted and burdened with childrearing. Besides, homosexuality is found in other species.


LOL! BAWahahahahahahah! Your excuses are lame and a damn good reflection of your ignorance of the subject. Over the years my dog made many advancements of dumping in the neighbors yard in place of mine.

Someone had to be distractracted and burdened with childrearing in order to bring you fool butt into this world and you show your appreciation by calling it a distractracted and burdened? How magnanimous of you!!!

Besides, homosexuality is found in other species!LOL! No they go through a homosexual phase before they become fully mature. it seems you are not yet fully mature. See what gerbilling has done to the animal kingdom? ;-)


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Message 1337278 - Posted: 12 Feb 2013, 1:08:20 UTC - in response to Message 1337235.

It feels so good when he stops?
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Message 1337320 - Posted: 12 Feb 2013, 4:50:42 UTC - in response to Message 1337209.

your country was based on secularism. They didn't want religion interfering in Gov't. This is something that the socalled southern bible thumping representatives conveniently forget when they spew their dreck about a christian country.

The fact is the Constitution not the Declaration of Independence makes no reference to Christianity. Only that gov't shall not establish a national religion nor enforce one. It seems odd that they'd intetionally keep out religion from gov't while crazy @$$ evangelical are hell bent to get it in gov't. Seems the US has its own source of terrorists.

Terrorists leaders rely on uneducated ignorant people to do the bidding of the terrorist organizations without question. Evangelicals feed on the same pool of victims. Poor under or uneducated Christians are easily manipulated into believing anything their leaders tell them, all in defense of Christianity in their own image


Your ignorance of our founding is astounding! I have given quote after quote, after quote of our founders.

The seperation so called clause is NOT a clause it was set so NO Church would be a one size fits all at the federal level. Such states as MARYland had at one time a state Faith. Others also had such state Faiths.

The fact is the Constitution does make reference to Christianity....
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independance of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,

The above document taken with the INTENT document called The Declaration of Independence gives the TOTAL and whole picture.

Secularists Leaders rely on uneducated ignorant people to do the bidding of secularists organizations without question. Ignorant Elected Secularists Leaders feed on the same pool of victims. Poor or uneducated Christians who have been indoctrinated IN Secularists state schools are easily manipulated into believing anything their Secularists leaders tell them, all in defense of Secularism in their own image, man made image.
you do understand that All the 13 original colonies were pre revolution called colonies. So having Maryland as a Catholic colony wasnt that big of a deal. As a state it couldn't and didn't have that. Utah on the otherhand is a religious state in that Mormons run it and make pretty much all the decisions there. But again why would anyone with any sense want to live in Utah to begin with.

You also misinterpret spiritualism with religion. They obviously were not big fans otherwise they wouldnt have made sure that NO establishment of a federal religion is allowed. Personally, I could care less about mangers on city property. If someone wants to spend their own money to put up the display then let them. But be assured that any muslim, jew, hindu, buddhist, or any religion should also be allowed to display their "beliefs" on public land.

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Message 1337322 - Posted: 12 Feb 2013, 4:56:05 UTC - in response to Message 1337320.

Skill, you asked "why would anyone with any sense want to live in Utah". I answer that the skiing can be really good!
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Message 1337330 - Posted: 12 Feb 2013, 5:27:54 UTC - in response to Message 1337235.

...

He has already stated, about a month ago, how he differs with you (or others) on the usage of these two words.
Do you hope to learn something from him or he from you? If not, you are responding ... why?

For several reasons.
1. I can talk to whoever I feel like. It is an open forum isn't it?
2. I genuinely am curious about his thought processes.
3. I am actually concerned about him and want to help him
4. He has the vote. Don't we have a duty to America to educate people like this seeing as their school system clearly hasn't?
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Message 1337331 - Posted: 12 Feb 2013, 5:28:06 UTC - in response to Message 1337322.

Skill, you asked "why would anyone with any sense want to live in Utah". I answer that the skiing can be really good!

You can collect a nice fat federal paycheck working at the Internal Revenue Service Center.

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Message 1337336 - Posted: 12 Feb 2013, 5:41:49 UTC - in response to Message 1337330.

1 reason not to:

It is bad luck to mess with crazy people.
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Message 1337341 - Posted: 12 Feb 2013, 5:47:54 UTC - in response to Message 1337272.



LOL! Try being smart, not a smarta$$.

Is this supposed to be answer? I don't have to try to be smart. I am well aware I am smart. Anyone's opinion here on my intelligence is irrelevant. Especially yours.



Being Christian makes me BETTER at being moral.

Do you genuinely believe that? It concerns me every time I hear someone claim that the only reason they are moral is because they believe in God.

Being moral should be based on compassion for others and empathy.
Not because a book translated from ancient Aramaic to Latin and finally to English (with lots of mistakes made in between) tells you so.

All of us have freewill not to be moral. You are a very good example of that FACT.

How so? Because I came to the conclusion that we should help the sick and needy, that we should treat others as we would be treated? That I believe that none of us are in a position to judge someone else?

Yes, I can see how far my moral code is from yours.


God is Three in One. I don't care if you belive that. I do. God, Holy Spirit and Christ makes up the three. So any quote from the Bible comes from Christ Himself.

You know that stuff is made up right? By people. By people who were trying to use it to gain power and keep it.


LOL! BAWahahahahahahah! Your excuses are lame and a damn good reflection of your ignorance of the subject. Over the years my dog made many advancements of dumping in the neighbors yard in place of mine.

This really is a nasty and very unChristian post. Do you really think some vile sentiments make Christians look like good decent people? You are quite a disgrace..and a hypocrite. Right now you are communicating your ideas, which really are small minded and mean spirted on a computer. A computer you would not have it it weren't for the work of a man named Allan Turing.

He was gay. You owe him.

Someone had to be distractracted and burdened with childrearing in order to bring you fool butt into this world and you show your appreciation by calling it a distractracted and burdened? How magnanimous of you!!!

More Christian insults? I won't reply in kind. I shall turn the other cheek. Someone once said that you know. He said "turn the other cheek". Of course as I haven't even personally insulted you, you don't really have a reason to turn the other cheek. You are just being petty and nasty.

Yes, childrearing is a burden. Do you know the definition of a burden? Childrearing takes an enormous amount of time and effort. You should thank your mother, for clearly you are obvious to all the sacrifices she made for you sake and seem to think that just your presence is gift to the world enough to make up for it.

Besides, homosexuality is found in other species!LOL! No they go through a homosexual phase before they become fully mature. it seems you are not yet fully mature. See what gerbilling has done to the animal kingdom? ;-)

Please, please, please stop saying silly things. Its painful and it really does make you look bad. I am trying so hard to help you, meet me halfway.


She/He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else.
~Benjamin Franklin

What a strangely irrelevant quote.

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Message 1337344 - Posted: 12 Feb 2013, 5:49:45 UTC - in response to Message 1337336.

1 reason not to:

It is bad luck to mess with crazy people.

True, true. I should know that.

But I really do feel so sorry for him. :((

I really do. He seems so lost and fragile.
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Message 1337346 - Posted: 12 Feb 2013, 5:53:52 UTC - in response to Message 1336077.

The only separation of Church and state is the one that forbids one Church to fit all at the federal level.


Ignoring the 14th Amendment? I realize that you have issues with most of the amendments, though the FFs realized that the constitution was not a perfect document, and from time to time would need to be updated, so they provided mechanisms for updates.
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Message 1337348 - Posted: 12 Feb 2013, 5:54:54 UTC - in response to Message 1337344.

1 reason not to:

It is bad luck to mess with crazy people.

True, true. I should know that.

But I really do feel so sorry for him. :((

I really do. He seems so lost and fragile.


Welllllll, thank you. However, Skildude and betreger are in more need of your help then I am. LOL!
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Message 1337350 - Posted: 12 Feb 2013, 6:03:56 UTC - in response to Message 1337348.
Last modified: 12 Feb 2013, 6:04:19 UTC

1 reason not to:

It is bad luck to mess with crazy people.

True, true. I should know that.

But I really do feel so sorry for him. :((

I really do. He seems so lost and fragile.


Welllllll, thank you. However, Skildude and betreger are in more need of your help then I am. LOL!

No.

You really don't have a clue what you are talking about most of the time...and you believe all sorts of weird stuff that is just plain wrong. That article you posted earlier was so wrong in so many places I didn't even know where to start.

Your world must be very frightening.
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Message 1337365 - Posted: 12 Feb 2013, 6:37:18 UTC - in response to Message 1337350.
Last modified: 12 Feb 2013, 6:37:33 UTC

1 reason not to:

It is bad luck to mess with crazy people.

True, true. I should know that.

But I really do feel so sorry for him. :((

I really do. He seems so lost and fragile.


Welllllll, thank you. However, Skildude and betreger are in more need of your help then I am. LOL!

No.

You really don't have a clue what you are talking about most of the time...and you believe all sorts of weird stuff that is just plain wrong. That article you posted earlier was so wrong in so many places I didn't even know where to start.

Your world must be very frightening.


No, I'm spot on and true and correct in my history. Your revisionist history just wont due.
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Message 1337371 - Posted: 12 Feb 2013, 7:11:18 UTC - in response to Message 1337322.

Skill, you asked "why would anyone with any sense want to live in Utah". I answer that the skiing can be really good!

The skiing is an excuse for a visit, it is not an excuse to live there.

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Message 1337372 - Posted: 12 Feb 2013, 7:22:26 UTC - in response to Message 1337365.

1 reason not to:

It is bad luck to mess with crazy people.

True, true. I should know that.

But I really do feel so sorry for him. :((

I really do. He seems so lost and fragile.


Welllllll, thank you. However, Skildude and betreger are in more need of your help then I am. LOL!

No.

You really don't have a clue what you are talking about most of the time...and you believe all sorts of weird stuff that is just plain wrong. That article you posted earlier was so wrong in so many places I didn't even know where to start.

Your world must be very frightening.


No, I'm spot on and true and correct in my history. Your revisionist history just wont due.

You should have stopped there a while and watched the first link on the right.

How Religious Were the Founding Fathers? - Gordon Wood

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Message 1337473 - Posted: 12 Feb 2013, 16:06:53 UTC
Last modified: 12 Feb 2013, 16:08:25 UTC

One

two

three

True history, not revisionist history.
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Message 1337490 - Posted: 12 Feb 2013, 17:07:21 UTC - in response to Message 1337473.
Last modified: 12 Feb 2013, 17:08:06 UTC

One

two
three

True history, not revisionist history.

David Barton is not a credible source. He has been slammed by actual historians for his inaccuracies and for being a revisionist.

His book has even been withdrawn from print for being full of errors and misleading.
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