James.

This would not work well as the vessel would dry out the ground thereby increasing the thermal resistance of the soil. Where this can be done economically is if you live near a large lake or a canal. The alternative is to drill way down until you hit water and then put your heat exchanger pipe down there--this can be very expensive.

In Florida my father used to pull water from the inland waterway and then discharge it back . When it came time to replace the unit the State would not let him do that because it might harm the fish. Funny thing though--fish always gathered there--they seemed to like the slightly warmer water. The dolphins would come and herd them into the seawall and then stun them with a blast of sound (Humans couldn't hear these frequencies)

Remember that a SEER of 16 ( which you can get in a regular unit) is very efficient and would probably pay for itself. My advice is not to get a heat pump in a cold climate. Since they run a high percentage of the time--I have seen many of them go out after maybe only 5 years. Get a 90% or more efficiency furnace and then a high efficiency air conditioner.

So the ground has to stay wet for the best thermal tranfer rates?
Tell me if Im wrong, But didnt the early geyser type power generation plants have problems with the pipeing getting clogged up with minerals.

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[/quote]

Old James

Came across this story on my favorite news site: http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/12/billion-dollar-climate-denial-network-exposed/ (originally posted on Ars' sister site Wired.co.uk here).

"Duncan Geere@ArsTechnica" wrote:

An extensive study into the financial networks that support groups denying the science behind climate change and opposing political action has found a vast, secretive web of think tanks and industry associations, bankrolled by conservative billionaires.

"I call it the climate-change counter movement," study author Robert Brulle, who published his results in the journal Climatic Change, told the Guardian. "It is not just a couple of rogue individuals doing this. This is a large-scale political effort."

...

While it was not always possible to separate funds designated strictly for climate-change work from overall budgets, Brulle said: "This is how wealthy individuals or corporations translate their economic power into political and cultural power."

He added: "They have their profits and they hire people to write books that say climate change is not real. They hire people to go on TV and say climate change is not real. It ends up that people without economic power don't have the same size voice as the people who have economic power, and so it ends up distorting democracy."

File this under "Things that make you go hmmm..."

Sadly nothing new there. There are whole policy networks that support the idea that climate change is real and caused by humans and they try to convince politicians to act, so its not surprising that they find a network aimed at convincing people and politicians that climate change is nonsense.

Aside from that, there were already studies done into the climate change denial movement's history, which traced their origin back to conservative think tanks that had nothing better to do after the Cold War ended. If I remember correctly it was a think tank that was deeply involved with Reagan's Star Wars project. They started railing against it because they felt that people who said climate change was real were nothing more than a bunch of pacifist hippies, and you know how much conservatives love those.

FauxScienceSlayer • 5 hours ago
It is SUMMER in Antarctica, with record COLD world wide indicating the predicted Ice Age, well predicted by all but the Carbon warmists. Climatology is modern alchemy, conceived to support the Club of Rome position papers of the fifties to blame humanity for environmental catastrophe to first rob, then exterminate to the desired feudal utopian level.

To "create" this faux science they first "simplified" a rotating sphere with half sunshine, to a non rotating disc with constant sunshine. When this "model" produced a less than measured surface temperature, the clima-clowns invented a "magic gas" to provide the missing energy. Their Keihl-Trenberth Radiative Balance shows Earth receiving 168 watts per square meter of solar energy, but 332 watts per square meter of "back radiation" energy. Clima-clowns have been able to convince themselves and our science illiterate political puppets that trace levels of free moving gas molecules PRODUCE TWICE THE HEAT OF THE SUN.

A free roaming three atom molecule like water vapor, CO2, or five atom like Methane CANNOT STORE OR REDIRECT RADIANT ENERGY. InfraRed radiation photons, leaving the Earth at the speed of light, strike these molecules which can "absorb" this energy for a billionth of a second, then the photon is "emitted" as a longer wavelength, lower energy photon that CANNOT warm the Earth and CANNOT be absorbed by any additional H2O, CO2 or CH4 molecule on it way to outer space. Then the clima-clowns assume that doubling CO2 would double the magic gas energy, raising the temperature, but IF the process did work by their fatally flawed hypothesis the function would be a decreasing logarithmic and NOT linear relationship.

This has been a two party deception with Big Bush increasing climate funding from $20 million/year in 1988 to a billion in 1992, with ALL OF THE EXCESS SPENDING ON CARBON ENDANGERMENT FINDINGS. To date US taxpayers have wasted $160 billion on this intentional FRAUD and purchased over paid, under trained, bobble head professors who peer/pal review their echo chamber false hypothesis. This is a three sided rigged "debate" between the Darth BIG Warmists, the Luke LITTLE Warmists and the Obie NO Warmists. The complete and correct science for this is at Principia Scientific International under Publications. Find and share Truth....it is your duty as an Earthling.

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The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

windsor1 • 5 hours ago
I love pseudo intellectuals like these passengers. Believe the press and not the science. The only passenger missing on this boate is "Al Gore." It's kind of like the title of the movie "The Ship of Fools".
The fact is, the sun is anticipated to be at a solar maximum now and scientists are shocked that it has not been this benign in decades. There is a magnetic pole shift underway that has not completed.
Some people have parked their common sense in the garage. Al Gore seems to completely ignore the impact of the sun on global warming. He talks extensively about carbon but never about evidence and facts that contradicts his model. My experience has been that during the day when we see the sun it is typically warmer than at night when the sun is heating the opposite side of the planet. Similarly there are times during the solar cycle when the sun is extremely active and hence emitting more energy and points in the cycle when there is less energy emitted.
If anything, with the sun being less active we appear to be slipping into a period of global cooling and perhaps even a mini or major ice age. It is too soon to tell but the next two or three years should tell where the climate is heading. In the meantime we will have to wait for MSM to fill us in. Imagine the carbon footprint of these "global warmers" will create with three or more rescue attempts.

Good to see someone else has picked up on this magnetic pole shift currently under way.

---

The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

....and a HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone.

---

The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

For those interested enough and/or conscientious enough to care about this part of our only one world and who wish to understand better:

Climate change: challenges and solutions

This [online] course aims to explain the science of climate change, the risks it poses and the solutions available to reduce those risks.

The course starts on 13 January 2014.


(Hope the weather is not too extreme for the USA Republicans... Or are they enjoying their "Wrath of God" excuses? Hell freezing over indeed?... :-( )

This is our only one planet!
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

(Hope the weather is not too extreme for the USA Republicans... Or are they enjoying their "Wrath of God" excuses? Hell freezing over indeed?... :-( )

Man made global warmist's dream that vortex. Gave them a new theme to follow,
"Global cooling" caused my man made global warming. Now several of us on this
thread did predict this line to be taken by them in time. It's us independent
ones who have stated that global cooling would be the next natural phase to
occur with our climates and not the man made warmist brigade. They have got caught with their pants down around their ankles for climate change is not
continuing to go in the direction that their useless models have been predicting.
Their now clutching at straws and stating that the current cold spell in the USA
is because of global warming, stated so without any sound research to back this
claim.

---

The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.

Tony Abbott urged to rethink climate policy after hottest year on record

Tony Abbott’s political opponents have seized on confirmation that 2013 was Australia’s hottest year on record, arguing it should compel the prime minister to abandon his plans to scrap the nation’s carbon pricing laws.

Yes, lets just ignore that 97% of all scientific studies into global warming all agree that yes there is global warming and yes it is our fault. Just because there is a cold winter doesn't mean that global warming isn't real, nor does it mean that on average the temperature has been dropping. Besides, global warming results in climate change and that in turn results in changing weather patterns, including things like harsher winters in some areas of the world.

But hey, lets just all pretend that there is this massive global conspiracy among scientists to lie to the public about global warming, like how that Fox News presented compared it to the well known conspiracy of doctors diagnosing you with illnesses because they get paid to do that.

I get it though, if 97 doctors tell me I have cancer but 3 tell me I don't, I would rather believe those 3 because they tell me I'm healthy. Still, any reasonable person would still check into their nearest hospital and get a cancer treatment started.

I'll admit freely that Tony Abbott is an idiot and only became PM as there really wasn't a better alternative available at the time, but he (and his party) does love to pander to local big businesses which is the real force behind his parties stance on this subject.

Cheers.

There are theories that parts of the world will get colder even though the world avearge temperature will increase. Here's a recent news item. US polar vortex may be example of global warming

In my part of this country over the last 5yrs it has been pretty cool and very wet (we've only had 1 week of this summer so far).

Cheers.

Is this really a "solution"? Or just an excuse for present day polluters to profit yet further at everyone else's greater future expense?


World may have to suck gases from air to meet climate goals - UN

... Governments may have to extract vast amounts of greenhouse gases from the air by 2100 to achieve a target for limiting global warming, backed by trillion-dollar shifts towards clean energy, a draft U.N. report showed...

... And, if the world overshoots concentrations of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere consistent with the 2C goal, most scenarios for getting back on track "deploy CDR technologies to an extent that net global carbon dioxide emissions become negative" before 2100, it says.

Temperatures have already risen by 0.8C (1.4F) since the Industrial Revolution...



All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Now the two most famous scientific institutions in Britain and the US agree: 'Climate change is more certain than ever'

The speed of global warming is now 10 times faster than at the end of the last ice age, which represents the most rapid period of sustained temperature change on a global scale in history - and there is no end in sight if carbon emissions continue to increase, the Royal Society and the US National Academy of Sciences have warned.

So Britain might get some decent weather this summer? Excellent!

---

Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.

Is this really a solution to one of the knock-on effects of our atmospheric CO2 pollution?


Great Walls of America 'could stop tornadoes'

Building three "Great Walls" across Tornado Alley in the US could eliminate the disasters, a physicist says.

The barriers - 300m (980ft) high and up to 100 miles long - would act like hill ranges, softening winds before twisters can form. They would cost $16bn (£9.6bn) to build but save billions of dollars of damage each year...



All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)

Id start by building that wall around Washington DC. Just think of the hot air and methane (B.S.) that could be contained.

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[/quote]

Old James

And there is profit in going 'green' for the good of all:


Aviation could switch to low-carbon fuel 'sooner than thought'

The world's 7,000 airlines could switch to low-carbon jet fuels much faster than other transport because aeroplanes have very few "filling stations", says Richard Branson.

... So if you can get the right fuel, like mass-produced algae, then getting it to 1,700 outlets is not so difficult," Branson said in an interview with the Guardian from the British Virgin islands.

Branson, who announced last month he hoped Virgin would soon be able to use waste gases from industrial steel and aluminium plants as a fuel, said the industry should aim for 50% sustainable fuels by 2020.

"I would be very disappointed if not. Once the breakthrough takes place, getting to 50-100% is not unrealistic. Aviation fuel is 25-40% of the running costs of airlines so the industry is open to new fuels."...



So... That looks like a good win-win: We still get the fossils fueled industry and the waste CO2 is used to feed algae to convert that to fuel to be used again...


Just one of many possible profitable steps to a less polluting future...

All on our only one planet,
Martin

---

See new freedom: Mageia Linux
Take a look for yourself: Linux Format
The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3)