Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects: Solutions

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Message 1352998 - Posted: 3 Apr 2013, 21:47:35 UTC


Scientists on climate change: Er, never mind!

Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...
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Message 1353042 - Posted: 4 Apr 2013, 0:23:48 UTC - in response to Message 1352998.  

For what it is worth, the headline on the home page of Wind "FINAL SIGN 'PREVENTING 2ND COMING OF JESUS'"
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Message 1353498 - Posted: 5 Apr 2013, 3:55:14 UTC

The links to the above piece...

1

2

3
Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...
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Message 1353653 - Posted: 5 Apr 2013, 14:02:28 UTC

Here in the UK we have had a global cooling winter, lets hope we're in for a
global warming summer now....Hmmm, some hope!!!

The Kite Fliers

--------------------
Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet
belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes.
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Message 1354254 - Posted: 7 Apr 2013, 4:33:21 UTC

Some say Fusion power will save us from the climate .Only 1 thing wrong it doesn't work. We have spent 10's of billions on this around the world however I believe this money has been wasted , why ??

We are trying to do fusion power the rong way by using Hydrogen yes there is heaps in the ocean but there is another way to make Fusion power work we have known about this for I believe at least 30 yrs I was shocked to find out we can already do it .

Yes there is a small catch we don't have the fuel needed on this planet . This I believe is not as big a problem as people believe.

There is a sauce not that far away and we have already been there also the Earth is serounded by millions of tons of this fuel . Instead of wasteing billions on trying to make hydrogen fusion work we should be putting the money into tech that can collect the fuel that Earth is hit with every day and spending money on building a moon base to mine the fuel

The fuel that i'm talking about is Helium 3 , turning hydrogen into helium 3 for fusion is 1 step we do not need to take . Shorely it would be better to use this money to build satelite's that could collect it or a moon base to mine it would it realy cost more than the 10's of billions already spent with no real progress . The best I have heard it is that they can only break even .Same energy out as they put in , and that won't do.

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Message 1354455 - Posted: 7 Apr 2013, 18:00:22 UTC

Correct me if Im wrong but isnt Helium 3 considered a second generation fuel for nuclear fusion. And seeing as 1st generation Hydrogen fusion plants are not even developed?
[/quote]

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Message 1354505 - Posted: 7 Apr 2013, 22:48:11 UTC - in response to Message 1354455.  

Umm Sorry James my knowledge of that is limited i'm not a scincetist only a common bloke with limited education so if you get to technical I won't be able to give you any answers
But from what I understand from what goes on in a star Hydrogen in turned in to helium 3 and then into other heaver elements.
If we use helium three fusion works if we use Hydrogen it don't and the reason they are trying to use Hydrogen is the little problem of there not being any natural sorces here on Earth.
We can make it in a nuke explosion so is expencive to make . And I understand that using Hydrogen is not as safe as people say it is , the reaction does produce radiation and the inside of the reactor has to be rebuit every 5 or 10 yrs

so why do they keep trying .....!!!
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Message 1354507 - Posted: 7 Apr 2013, 22:56:41 UTC

I could also be wrong about this but I do believe there is 1 hydrogen reactor in Europe and 1 in the states but they use different ways to start the reaction . In the states they are trying to use lasers to start it where Europe is using heated plasma and is why there reactor has to be rebuilt after a few yrs it strips or changes the molecular structure of the material used to make the inside of the reactor.

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Message 1354508 - Posted: 7 Apr 2013, 23:03:27 UTC

so why do they keep trying .....!!!


People Not As Smart as The Scientists(Common Blokes in Government and Corporations[LOL]) continue To Give Them Money. Lots 'O Moola.

Much like Common Blokes in Government and Corporations(LOL) continue to give Lots 'O Money to The Smart Scientists Of Climate Change.

Ya See. Scientists, Like Some Politicians, Can HYPNOTIZE Others into Thinking(Not Critically, of course) into Believing Whatever They Say and Write.

Therefore, Dough, Lots 'O, is Dispersed, into The BlackHoles, SinkHoles, and Other Rabbit Holes Of Belief.

Not for US Commoners to Worry About. We Be OK.

The Smart Ones are On Our Side.

Bound For It.


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Message 1354513 - Posted: 7 Apr 2013, 23:56:50 UTC - in response to Message 1354508.  

So your a shit sterrer then !..

No prob me too anything almost for a laugh
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Message 1356826 - Posted: 14 Apr 2013, 13:31:01 UTC

Going green to regain the serenity?


Venice imposes short Grand Canal boat ban

The city of Venice is imposing its first ever ban on motorboats, launches and barges on one of its main waterways on Sunday. ...

... The aim is to draw attention to the city's environmental problems, and help make the case for more ecologically-sound forms of water transport.

"This initiative is to raise awareness of the pollution and promote the use of electric or hybrid boats," said a council spokesman.

Down through its history Venice has sometimes been called "La Serenissima", meaning the "most serene" one.

The name conjures the perfect image of the place; beautiful old palaces standing in the calm of the city's canals. ...

... but the sound of buzzing, growling, or throbbing engines often fills the air.

The boats and barges pollute the water and give off fumes. At the same time, they create waves that continually slap at the crumbling walls of the ancient buildings that line the canals.

Gradual change

The authorities would like to see a gradual switching to [quiet non-polluting] electric-powered craft, or boats with hybrid engines. ...



Sounds like a win-win-win all round there.


All on our only planet,
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Message 1356832 - Posted: 14 Apr 2013, 13:55:11 UTC - in response to Message 1356826.  

So what's wrong with a couple of strapping lads pulling oars?

Simple enough answer, we're the problem!

The majority of tourists want to cover everything at a fast pace......

rush, rush, rush.....

..the man's never around when you want him :)
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Message 1357238 - Posted: 15 Apr 2013, 16:12:09 UTC

There's a continuing stream of positive developments for our industrialised world going 'clean and green'. There's some curious contrary news hitting the headlines also... All a game of "news management"?...


One bit of the contrary news:

Biofuels: 'Irrational' and 'worse than fossil fuels'

The UK's "irrational" use of biofuels will cost motorists around £460 million over the next 12 months, a think tank says.

A report by Chatham House says the growing reliance on sustainable liquid fuels will also increase food prices.

The author says that biodiesel made from vegetable oil was worse for the climate than fossil fuels.

Under EU law, biofuels are set to make up 5% of the UK's transport fuel from today. ...

... "It creates a financial incentive to buy refined palm oil, cook a chip in it to turn it into used cooking oil and then sell it at profit,"

"It is crazy but the incentives are there." ...

... The European Biodiesel Board (EBB), which represents the industry across the EU, said it was aware of the problems caused by the mandate. But it believes that biofuels have many positives.

"Blaming biofuels for all the troubles in the world is a bit too exaggerated," said Isabelle Maurizi, project manager at the EBB.

"It has brought lots of benefits. It has improved the security of our diesel; it has reduced EU dependency on animal feed imports, thanks to the rapeseed we grow for biodiesel."

"If there was no biodiesel farmers would just make their land idle - no food, no feed!"

As the UK hits the 5% of liquid fuels mark, the government faces some difficult decisions...

... "When you have a lobby which includes the agricultural sector and the oil sector it is very hard for Governments to make a U-turn," said Rob Bailey.



There's more detail in: Thinktank: Biofuels are too expensive - and they don’t always reduce emissions

... The UK Department for Energy and Climate Change estimates that a carbon price of about £57 per tonne of carbon dioxide is needed to reduce emissions in line with the government's climate change targets. Chatham House concludes that the costs of reducing the equivalent amount of greenhouse gas emissions using transport biofuels is considerably higher - about £108 - £717. ...



So... How to untangle the politics and lobbying and commercial hegemony? How can a cost be put on pollution?...


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Message 1357518 - Posted: 16 Apr 2013, 12:50:33 UTC - in response to Message 1357238.  
Last modified: 16 Apr 2013, 12:53:49 UTC

There's a continuing stream of positive developments for our industrialised world going 'clean and green'. There's some curious contrary news hitting the headlines also... All a game of "news management"?...



Here's another very curious snippet trying to 'deflect the blame':

Cutting CO2 too difficult? Try these 4 simple tricks instead

Climate researchers - including one working for Wendy Schmidt, the campaigning wife of Google overlord Eric - have published research suggesting that there are other things apart from cutting CO2 emissions which would help to avoid disastrous rises in sea levels this century. ...


That one is a 'corker' of a "Lewis Page" article for The Register. He is a well known advocate of Global-Warming-Denial for the selection of articles published under his name. For real? Or just good lucrative journalism business and the wider Truth be damned?... Sponsored by fossil fuels money?...


All building up to what I wonder?...

Possibly these two financially big stories?


What's a fair nuclear price?

Whenever I ask government officials and ministers why they are taking so long to reach a deal with EDF on building the promised vast new nuclear plant at Hinkley Point in Somerset, they say "40 years" - and turn a whiter shade of pale.

What they mean is that the French energy giant says it needs a commitment of between 35 and 40 years on the price to be paid by consumers for the power generated...

... And what they then point out is that the price originally demanded by EDF of £100 per megawatt hour was 19% higher than another source of low-carbon power - onshore wind turbines - where there is a need to guarantee the tariff for "just" 15 years.

So the gap between the price the government is prepared to offer and what EDF desires has been huge...

... The prime minister is a bit concerned about the political fallout (no pun intended) if the project were scrapped...




EU parliament rejects plan to save carbon trading

The European Parliament has rejected a plan to rescue the EU's ailing carbon trading scheme. ...

... the price of carbon on the EU Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) has plunged to less than 5 euros a tonne.

But opponents won the day by arguing the plan would push up energy costs.

The price of carbon once stood at 32 euros per tonne.




So... How to untangle the politics and lobbying and commercial hegemony? How can a cost be put on pollution?...


All on our only one planet,
Martin
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Message 1358023 - Posted: 18 Apr 2013, 11:21:38 UTC - in response to Message 1357518.  
Last modified: 18 Apr 2013, 11:25:53 UTC

So... How to untangle the politics and lobbying and commercial hegemony? How can a cost be put on pollution?...


Another set of contrasts on 'going green' developments:


How environmentally friendly are electric cars?

Last week Nissan began production of the first UK-built electric car, the Leaf, at its plant in Sunderland. The company believes that after a slow start, the time has finally come for the battery operated electric car.

Electric vehicles are seen by governments as an important part of cutting emissions and reducing global warming. After all, what comes out of the car is completely clean, but nonetheless some scientists are questioning their green credentials.

Concerns are focused on two areas:

How electric vehicles (EVs), and particularly their batteries, are manufactured

How the electricity which powers them is generated. ...

... It all makes the choice for consumers of whether to switch to an EV a difficult and complicated one. Aside from questions about their driving range, and whether you will get to your destination without having to charge the battery, the environmental benefits are not always clear. And some research also has to be scrutinised carefully because oil companies are accused of funding pseudo-scientific reports aimed at doing down the EV market.

The Norwegian study has been criticised by some, for example, because of links between the university and the oil company Statoil. ...

... "The electric car has great potential for improvement, but ultimately what will make it a success or failure from an environmental standpoint is how much we can clean up our electricity grid - both for the electricity you use when you drive your car, and for the electricity used for producing the car." ...



German boffins aim to burn natural gas - WITHOUT CO2 emissions

... They're looking to do that by making methane (CH4), the main compound in natural gas, into straight hydrogen and [solid] carbon. The hydrogen can then be burned as a fuel - in a fuel cell, a combustion engine, a boiler, anything you like - and the resulting exhaust will be harmless water rather than possibly planet-busting CO2...

... prospect here of powering the human race with very low carbon emissions - not just the few per cent of its needs met by electricity, but just about everything - using potentially abundant natural gas...



Super-powered battery breakthrough claimed by US team

... The University of Illinois team says its use of 3D-electrodes allows it to build "microbatteries" that are many times smaller than commercially available options, or the same size and many times more powerful.

It adds they can be recharged 1,000 times faster than competing tech.

However, safety issues still remain. ...

... "Today we're making small numbers of these things in a boutique fabrication process, but while that's reliable and we can repeat it we need to be able to make large numbers of these things over large areas," said Prof King.

"But in principle our technology is scalable all the way up to electronics and vehicles.

"You could replace your car battery with one of our batteries and it would be 10 times smaller, or 10 times more powerful. With that in mind you could jumpstart a car with the battery in your cell phone."...

... However, he added that he soon planned to switch to a safer polymer-based electrolyte to address the [safety] issue.

Prof King added that he hoped to have the technology ready to be trialled as a power source for electronic equipment before the end of the year. ...



So... The oil companies sponsor selective niche studies to trash electric vehicles. Common sense is enough to note that for any type of vehicle, there are good uses and bad uses for how whatever vehicle can be used. Hence, electric vehicles are indeed good for 'city' use and multi-hop stops/deliveries. Especially so for not adding to local city pollution. However, they are not so good for high speed long range needs for the presently manufactured tech.

And that's where a few developments are rapidly improving the state of play... Just two are listed above. There's lots more possible yet.


Meanwhile, can we expect an ever increasing crescendo of FUD from the fossils to trash anything and everything new and our planet be damned?...

(Also interesting how despite the climate-denial stance of The Register, they also acknowledge human CO2 powered Global Warming.)


All on our only one planet,
Martin
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Message 1358031 - Posted: 18 Apr 2013, 11:39:24 UTC

Nicely said ML1

Capacitor TECK is very promising and a game changer

Let hope the petrol co's don't interfere .The oil will run out in 2040 and that was 1990 estimates before china !

Climate change ? prob ! probably , let's use what's left to get ready for no oil!
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Message 1358179 - Posted: 18 Apr 2013, 18:04:41 UTC

Research on wind farms says that the current estimates of up to 4W/m^2 are unobtainable on large farms. Due to the localised climate changes caused by each turbine the output could be as low as 1W/m^2.

Is Large Scale Wind Power Handicapping Itself?
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Message 1358291 - Posted: 18 Apr 2013, 21:39:05 UTC

I have been reading recently that climatologists are at a loss to explain why the rate of "global warming" has significantly slowed down over the last decade. Could it be that they just don't have enough data to make the claims they have. There are probably several contributing factors that have not been accounted for in their equations. My belief remains that nature still has the upper hand and that termites make a bigger contribution to global climate change than humans do.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
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Message 1358296 - Posted: 18 Apr 2013, 21:47:21 UTC - in response to Message 1358291.  

do they or have they factored recent ice melting in there model's of the poler caps, De Woody ?
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Message 1358301 - Posted: 18 Apr 2013, 22:17:56 UTC

Millions of "breakthroughs" can't be unscaled out of laboratory curiosities.

However it is very important to be 100% sure that a proposed replacement technology has less impact that the thing it is to replace at full scale. Real world numbers on manufacturing have to be used. Such as it may get built in China with 100% coal power electricity. Not only the manufacturing side of the house, but the disposal side of the house has to be included. Can't go make a huge festering pit of toxic waste either. Costs a bit of power to reduce things to a acceptable to dispose state.

I don't trust a "climate scientist" to be expert in manufacturing engineering to be able to know all those numbers. It is out of his field of expertise. Worse a great many of the numbers are trade secret.

Humans can't afford to make a mistake on this and implement a technology that increases global warming.

As to those big bad "oil" companies, long ago they stopped being "oil" companies and became "energy supply" companies. They saw the wells going dry. $0.001 per Joule any way they can.


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Message boards : Politics : Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects: Solutions


 
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