Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects: Solutions
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Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects: Solutions
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 ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20258 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 
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Coal is natural but dug up by us. Answered over on the denial thread (Message 1389818). We must find a solution before we burn our own planet around us... Or rather cook ourselves with our own CO2 pollution... All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 1389814 ·  |
bobby  Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 
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What pumps out more Co2, the photo or us? When have photos ever pumped out CO2? I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... 
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MOMMY: He is MAKING ME Read His Posts Thoughts and Prayers. GOoD Thoughts and GOoD Prayers. HATERWORLD Vs THOUGHTs and PRAYERs World. It Is a BATTLE ROYALE. Nobody LOVEs Me. Everybody HATEs Me. Why Don't I Go Eat Worms. Tasty Treats are Wormy Meat. Yes  Send message Joined: 16 Jun 02 Posts: 6895 Credit: 6,588,977 RAC: 0
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Cartoon Head Said: When have photos ever pumped out CO2? Brainiacs Should Not try To Be Cute. Bound For IT IT.  May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!! 
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rob smith    Send message Joined: 7 Mar 03 Posts: 22188 Credit: 416,307,556 RAC: 380
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Strangely enough my first thoughts were exactly the same as Bobby's....Then I realised "Oh yes they do, particularly when I've set fire to one"... Bob Smith Member of Seti PIPPS (Pluto is a Planet Protest Society) Somewhere in the (un)known Universe? ID: 1389845 · |
Intelligent Design  Send message Joined: 9 Apr 12 Posts: 3626 Credit: 37,520 RAC: 0
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Cartoon Head Said: +10 Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick... ID: 1389883 · |
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Intelligent Design Send message Joined: 9 Apr 12 Posts: 3626 Credit: 37,520 RAC: 0
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Coal is natural but dug up by us. Not only does a volcano pump out CO2 it pumps out every other greenhouse gas known to man. The photos you have shown me only pump out CO2. Grass fires, even before men walked up-right over the life-time of this rock, have pumped out more CO2 then man ever has. As I have told you our oceans are the largest scrubber of CO2 on this rock. Plants would be the second. Oceans take 500 years to do the job and plants do so quickly. It just so happens that submarine volcanoes, produce vastly greater amounts of CO2 then the ones above water. Volcanoes emit more CO2 than humans "Human additions of CO2 to the atmosphere must be taken into perspective. Over the past 250 years, humans have added just one part of CO2 in 10,000 to the atmosphere. One volcanic cough can do this in a day." (Ian Plimer) It is also thought, by a lot of people, that El Niño is due to submarine volcanoes. At any rate, no one other then them who stand to make money off of global warming is taking what you think too heart. We humans cannot pump out as much CO2 as nature does. And the carbon cycle has been around A LOT longer then we have. Antarctica first had glaciers at the end of the Devonian period, around 350 million years ago. But it was still joined to the Gondwana supercontinent at that time and in any case the climate wasn't cold enough for it to freeze completely. There are fossils of plants from this era. The polar ice caps melted for a while after that and it wasn't until Africa and Antarctica separated around 160 million years ago that it began to cool again. By 23 million years ago, Antarctica was mostly icy forest and for the last 15 million years, it has been a frozen desert under a thick ice sheet. During this whole time, from 350 million years ago till 23 million years ago the sun drove the weather as it does now. Of course the land, winds and sea currents were a lot different then, because of the distribution of land mass. But the warming was due, mostly to volcanoes. I can tell you one thing, life went on and the proof of that is us humans. I can also tell you life will continue to go right along unless a huge rock from space comes to kill us all like it did the dinosaurs. The logical premise offered by global warming people is not even close to the truth. I don't buy into the chicken little story. I cannot buy into the chicken little story because history tells us that nothing living can change weather by its just being here. This has only changed of late because of atomic weapons and even that theory has not been tested. And NO--I don't want to test the theory of nuclear winter but facts are facts and that theory has not been tested. I find is frightening, very frightening that most of you here gave me a hard time about a 'God hypothesis' and such things as global warming are nothing more then a hypothesis. Yet this 'global warming hypothesis' is touted as fact. People even have spent billion of dollars of tax payer monies to stop a hypothesis! No one has spent a dime of tax payer monies on the 'God hypothesis.' As I have said, the temperatures of our oceans and seas have only been taken on a regular basis since the 1950's. This science is so new that we cannot use it as a reliable part of the puzzle you posit for global warming. And since we know that our waters are the biggest scrubber, and since we know that volcanoes are larger underwater, we can make a 'hypothesis' about what happened 500 years ago. 500 years ago we had a huge underwater volcano eruption that overwhelmed the ability of our waters to scrub. This could be a factor in our weather today. But since we have not seen any increase in droughts since the 1950's I have my doubt on the very 'hypothesis' I have just posited. But, I would look to natural causes long before I'd look to human cause of weather change. At any rate, human life will continue. Furthermore, human life has bottled necked many times and never has our own presence been the cause of that bottleneck. I rest my case for now... Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick... ID: 1389886 · |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20258 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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Not only does a volcano pump out CO2 it pumps out every other greenhouse gas known to man. ... Your comments are very definitely for the Denialists thread. Please give some hard evidence rather than just wild random 'feelings'. Just regarding Ian Plimer, volcanoes, and CO2: Wikipedia: Ian Plimer Volcanoes and CO2 Plimer has long argued that volcanic eruptions release more carbon dioxide (CO2) than human activity; in particular that submarine volcanoes... The United States Geological Survey has calculated that human emissions of CO2 are about 130 times larger than volcanic emissions, including submarine emissions. The United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) stated that Plimer's claim "has no factual basis." This was confirmed in a 2011 survey published in the Eos journal of the American Geophysical Union, which found that anthropogenic emissions of CO2 are 135 times larger than those from all volcanoes on Earth. Not much then...! Further comment over on Denialists please. This thread is for SOLUTIONS. All on our only planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 1389890 · |
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Intelligent Design Send message Joined: 9 Apr 12 Posts: 3626 Credit: 37,520 RAC: 0
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Not only does a volcano pump out CO2 it pumps out every other greenhouse gas known to man. ... Wild random 'feelings'? In case you missed it, I offered my solution. I think we need to spend the same amount of monies on both hypothesis. Thank you for your time in this matter. Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick... ID: 1389918 · |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20258 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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All a game of crazy politics or of political graft? Call to pay landowners to save peat Britain’s rich landowners are fuelling climate change by clearing peat bogs for grouse shooting... ... Landowners burn off the peat to encourage the growth of heather, which feeds the sporting birds. The Committee on Climate Change says they should be paid to leave the bogs to store carbon and water. If the peat is drained, the carbon stored in organic material is exposed to air, decomposing and forming CO2. The report by the committee’s sub-group on adaptation says around 30% (nearly 1,000 sq km) of upland deep peat has become dominated by heather for grouse. "It really makes no sense to be draining peat when we are trying to cut carbon emissions," ... ... The Country Landowners Association (CLA) said it expected to be compensated if it is expected to conserve peat bogs. ... "The sooner we get market-based payments for protecting peat the better.†He said the CLA was discussing the idea of payments with government. The idea may prove controversial as it could see some of the UK’s richest people who own large tracts of uplands effectively paid for doing nothing. The committee says sheep farmers are to blame, too, for draining peatbogs. The bogs also provide a valuable service in storing water, which inhibits flooding and filters water for drinking. ... Quite a thorny one... Note how we have restrictive planning regulation for building and land use in city areas and national park areas... All a game of subsidies? Should we have a 'price' for inherited carbon storage and water catchment? Should there be a carbon pollution charge if change of land use adds to pollution? All a game of politics... All on our only planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 1390167 · |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20258 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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A brief collection from the flurry from President Obama's 'Climate Speech': Barack Obama's Climate Action Plan The President’s comprehensive plan has three main objectives: One – to prevent the worst effects of climate change by reducing our carbon pollution. ... Two – to prepare this country for the impacts of climate change we can’t avoid. And three – to lead the rest of the world around combating changing climate. US and China to extend co-operation in effort to curb climate change New initiatives announced in Washington by both countries – who jointly account for 40% of greenhouse gas emissions America and China agreed on Wednesday to work together to develop cleaner trucks, expanding joint efforts against climate change by the two greatest emitters and raising prospects for a global climate deal. The new initiatives announced in Washington on Wednesday would see China and the US extend their climate co-operation to five new areas – beginning with heavy trucks, which are a significant cause of greenhouse gas emissions in both countries. ... Can Jim Yong Kim end World Bank backing for coal-fired power ... this proposal is a big step forward for an agency that has supported some of the world's largest and dirtiest coal plants for years. It is also a key opportunity for World Bank President Dr Jim Yong Kim to lead the World Bank into a clean energy future. ... Is Obama's climate plan enough to 'stop the planet being beyond fixing'? Barack Obama has laid out his 'climate action plan', but will it be enough to halt the rise in carbon emissions?... Too little too slow too late, or good hope and a call to urgent action? All on our only one planet, Martin (The trucks and chimneys in that YouTube clip are particularly apt...) See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 1391787 · |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20258 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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Quite a mixed bag of reporting. Is this partly a journalistic backlash to 'balance' against the Obama 'Climate Speech'? Can Germany afford its 'energy bender' shift to green power? Germany's rapid transition to renewable energy is said to be the country's biggest and most expensive project since the fall of the Berlin wall - but with rising costs for consumers and industry, will this great energy experiment succeed? ... Battle over wind turbines in the land of Sleeping Beauty Plans to expand wind energy into the most scenic parts of Germany are fuelling increasing opposition across the country. Anti-wind campaigners are angry that areas including the forests made famous by the tales of the brothers Grimm are among the targets for new turbines. For the first time they have formed a national opposition group to thwart the expansion. ... ... "I want the green movement, I want green technology, I don't want nuclear power - but they should be made in the right way and not by destroying the forest. ... ... Some of those involved believe that unlike solar power, which has been adopted by many individual householders, wind parks are essentially speculative investments with electricity consumers guaranteeing a return for developers. ... Let's go solar: How communities make energy together ... in part of south London, the thoughts of Agamemnon Otero are on the kilowatts per hour being generated on local rooftops. "It's a great summer to install solar panels," he says. "On a day like today, in the full sun, we'll be creating more energy than all these buildings need." But his enthusiasm is not only a result of Britain's soaring temperatures. ... For Germany, here's hoping that crass couldn't-care-less commercialism doesn't spoil the party. How do we cost in a more holistic picture rather than just destructively working blindly for cold commercial profit? And there is an awful lot of unutilized roof area that can be utilized for solar electric and solar heating! Also note the complete absence in those articles of any mention of costing for the cost of fossil fuels pollution... All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 1392820 · |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20258 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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An interesting rebirth, provided there is none of the sort of "sharp practice" as has been pioneered in the IT world: Bill Gates' nuclear firm plans hot, salty push into power And a royalty payment from every home The nuclear power firm being hailed by Bill Gates as the answer to mankind's future energy needs is planning a proprietary approach to an old atomic idea to further its global ambitions... ...the main area the firm is working on is a traveling-wave reactor (TWR). A TWR mostly burns depleted uranium fuel, which is stacked in a long candle-like column and then ignited with a cap of enriched uranium. Such a fission reactor would take 50-100 years to burn itself down, with virtually no maintenance required or spent fuel to dispose of... ... One area the firm won't be seriously looking into is fusion power. This might seem odd, since Gilleland was the US managing director of the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (ITER) fusion plant, based in France, before joining TerraPower, but he said that the payoff period for research is too long. "I have a soft spot in my heart for fusion, having run the ITER program and things like that, but it's something I can't count on for my grandchildren," he said. "We're focused more on fission rather than fusion. Fusion just takes so much more development and so much more time."... One particularly apt comment is: Re: "Proprietary" and "patents" ...Still, nice to see some moves on safer and more efficient fission. Amazing what can happen when there's less pressure to generate useful side products for the military and actual make sane design choices. Good indeed to see saner alternatives being looked at again... So whatever did happen to the Thorium ideas and also the inherently fail-safe Candu style nuclear fission reactors? All on our only one world, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 1395174 · |
Gary Charpentier  Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30638 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32
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Even simple solar power is not without environmental problems ... http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/25/the-real-death-panels-endangered-birds-killed-by-solar-plants/ http://cochise.az.gov/uploadedFiles/Planning_and_Zoning/Agendas_and_Meeting_Minutes/Solar%20One%20Avian%20Mortality%20Study.pdf 
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20258 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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Even simple solar power is not without environmental problems ... Thanks for that, interesting unexpectedness... Hopefully not too many birds will be dumb enough to be so confused... That problem might suggest the use of the more non-reflective black looking solar panels instead? Also, do not underestimate the death and destruction to birds from other man-made causes: Why Coal and Nuclear Plants Kill Far More Birds than Wind Power ... Risks to wildlife vary substantially by life cycle stage. Higher risks are generally associated with the resource extraction and power generation stages, as compared to other life cycle stages. Overall, non-renewable electricity generation sources, such as coal and oil, pose higher risks to wildlife than renewable electricity generation sources, such as hydro and wind. Based on the comparative amounts of SO2, NOx, CO2, and mercury emissions generated from coal, oil, natural gas, and hydro and the associated effects of acidic deposition, climate change, and mercury bioaccumulation, coal as an electricity generation source is by far the largest contributor to risks to wildlife... Avian mortality from wind power, fossil-fuel, and nuclear electricity Fossil-fueled facilities are 17 times more dangerous to birds on a per GWh basis than wind power. ... but fossil-fueled stations killed 14.5 million and nuclear 327,000. ... ... After surveying wind development in California, Colorado, Iowa, Minnesota, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Oregon, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming (the 10 states with more than 90% of total installed wind power capacity), the US GAO (2005) calculated that building windows are by far the largest source of bird morality, accounting for 97-976 million deaths per year. Attacks from domestic and feral cats accounted for 110 million deaths; poisoning from pesticides 72 million; and collisions with communication towers 4-50 million... 11 Facts about the BP Oil Spill ... In the BP Oil Spill, more than 200 million gallons of crude oil was pumped into the Gulf of Mexico for a total of 87 days, making it the biggest oil spill in U.S. history. 16,000 total miles of coastline have been affected, including the coasts of Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Florida. Even though the gushing well was capped in July 2010, oil is still washing up on shores... BP's oiled animals: Where are they now? ... More than 1,100 miles of shoreline were oiled by the Deepwater Horizon spill in 2010, ... about 340 miles of those beaches and bayous remain "subject to evaluation and/or cleanup operations." ... ... Thousands upon thousands of people have also been affected in the three years since, and in a wide range of ways. Some were physically sickened by oil or its fumes during the cleanup, while others lost fortunes or entire businesses to prolonged slumps in fishing, shrimping and tourism. BP set up a $20 billion fund to compensate ... it pleaded guilty to 12 felony charges as part of a $4.5 billion settlement with the U.S. government... It also reached a $7.8 billion settlement last spring with private-sector plaintiffs, and a civil trial is currently under way in New Orleans. ... Fossil fuels come out as particularly dirty, poisonous, and deadly... All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 1395960 · |
James Sotherden  Send message Joined: 16 May 99 Posts: 10436 Credit: 110,373,059 RAC: 54
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Why dont we stop spending on war crap and just build a Dyson sphere. That would solve our enegy needs. And it would put every one to work so the GOV. could tax the hell out of us.  [/quote]Old James ID: 1396059 · |
W-K 666  Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19048 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67
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In an area that there is probably vast oil fields, up to 50 billion as-yet untapped barrels of oil, say some. Which if exploited will cause more warming, is Kivalina, The Alaskan village set to disappear underwater in a decade US President Obama's promise to take bold measures to combat climate change has provoked strong domestic opposition, but Americans are now facing the impact of global warming in their own country. ID: 1396448 · |
William Rothamel  Send message Joined: 25 Oct 06 Posts: 3756 Credit: 1,999,735 RAC: 4
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This is a solutions thread. What is your solution ?? ID: 1396562 · |
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W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19048 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67
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This is a solutions thread. What is your solution ?? It is also a greenhouse effects thread. ID: 1396570 · |
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ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20258 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20
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This is a solutions thread. What is your solution ?? The 'solution' for Kivalina looks to be enforced relocation. Possibly the first directly due to forced rapid climate change. And the Arctic is suffering the fastest change... Meanwhile, do we have a useful solution possible with the present hot-air-little-action politics? All on our only planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) ID: 1396609 · |
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