Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects: Solutions

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Message 1389439 - Posted: 10 Jul 2013, 10:34:32 UTC - in response to Message 1389437.  

It is the gap from now until nuclear fusion or some other unknown power source are developed that is the problem. It is not helped when politicians make wild claims for green power, as shown in this article about the claims of Scottish politicians and the facts as detailed by Oxford University engineering study about wave power in the Pentland Firth.

Wave goodbye to hopes of tidal energy exports, Scots politicians told
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Message 1389491 - Posted: 10 Jul 2013, 15:27:17 UTC - in response to Message 1389439.  
Last modified: 10 Jul 2013, 15:52:34 UTC

It is the gap from now until nuclear fusion or some other unknown power source are developed that is the problem. It is not helped when politicians make wild claims for green power, as shown in this article about the claims of Scottish politicians and the facts as detailed by Oxford University engineering study about wave power in the Pentland Firth.

Wave goodbye to hopes of tidal energy exports, Scots politicians told

From that article:

"14GW" previously assumed... That is then reduced to "1.9GW" with the assumption that "Three rows of turbines would be the maximum that could be deployed without seriously eroding the power-generating capacity of the tidal flow".

That looks to be surprisingly pessimistic... Also, only 3 rows of turbines to kill the flow?... I strongly suspect some arbitrary 'minimal value of non-disturbance' has been assumed/used rather than calculating for a much higher maximum energy return which will slow the tidal flow.


Also, this quote looks to be a little suspicious:

"This would produce a power output that could match or exceed that of wind turbines,"

Is that a clever swipe to divert grants/funding?...


Regardless, even with overly pessimistic figures, that still adds up to [about] half of the power used by Scotland.


Good and interesting but a curious angle... Note also that is only one of a number of tidal races around the UK.

All on our only planet,
Martin


[edit]

As usual, detail lost in the journalism... Instead see: Pentland Firth turbines could generate "almost half of Scotland's electricity"

"the researchers assumed that, to be viable, the potential energy generated by each tidal turbine would have to be greater than that of off-shore wind turbines"

So, grabbing 10% of the potential available energy assuming various current economics is perhaps not too unreasonable.

I wonder if the undersea tidal turbines could be combined with above-sea wind turbines on the same fixtures for better economy and power output?...

[edit]
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Message 1389493 - Posted: 10 Jul 2013, 15:32:42 UTC - in response to Message 1389451.  
Last modified: 10 Jul 2013, 15:34:04 UTC

There was some grandiose scheme for the Severn Estuary that never got off the ground.

That one is always getting sunk by the too-greedy construction consortium wanting a multi-billion guaranteed corrupt gravy train to pour stupid amounts of CO2-costly concrete and the country and environment be damned.

Meanwhile, our money is now to instead be squandered on an ever-expanding "High Speed 2" train line to shave off a few minutes inter-city time for an elite. How can a train line be so expensive and take so long to construct?! All for such little gain...


Meanwhile, the same money could either fund discrete tidal stream turbines around the whole of the UK, no monstrous mega-barrage needed. Or, speed up the development of Fusion power...


It's all our choice...

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Message 1389495 - Posted: 10 Jul 2013, 15:39:32 UTC - in response to Message 1389389.  
Last modified: 10 Jul 2013, 15:40:56 UTC

A possibility to keep using coal as a clean energy source.

New Coal Technology Harnesses Energy Without Burning, Nears Pilot-Scale Development

COLUMBUS, Ohio—A new form of clean coal technology reached an important milestone recently, with the successful operation of a research-scale combustion system at Ohio State University. The technology is now ready for testing at a larger scale.

For 203 continuous hours, the Ohio State combustion unit produced heat from coal while capturing 99 percent of the carbon dioxide produced in the reaction.

Thanks for that. Looks to be developing nicely.


I wonder if that can come into play before and instead of the next round of dirty old tech is allowed in for the rushed next round of replacing old coal power in UK?... There's a lot of current old coal spluttering along beyond end of life... And predictably the power industry is ramping up the rhetoric of "the lights will go out, so lets build anything dirty quick"...


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Message 1389498 - Posted: 10 Jul 2013, 15:43:54 UTC
Last modified: 10 Jul 2013, 15:44:23 UTC

Coal is natural but dug up by us.

So the below is or isn't natural? And what pumps out more Co2?


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Message 1389501 - Posted: 10 Jul 2013, 15:45:52 UTC

Please give real answers.
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Message 1389507 - Posted: 10 Jul 2013, 15:59:03 UTC
Last modified: 10 Jul 2013, 16:02:12 UTC

Meanwhile, our money is now to instead be squandered on an ever-expanding "High Speed 2" train line to shave off a few minutes inter-city time for an elite. How can a train line be so expensive and take so long to construct?! All for such little gain...

Being kind here a bit aren't you Martin?...don't you mean, "Ruddy wasted"
Some Europeans countries, including France, are dropping any further plans to
extend their High Speed train networks. Reason being that advances in communications
technology will render long distance HS travel unnecessary. HS2 wont go ahead, we
can't afford the £100 billion price tag that this whole project is now going to
cost.
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Message 1389543 - Posted: 10 Jul 2013, 17:23:57 UTC

I prophesy that HS2 will go ahead.


...Oh no it wont!!


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Message 1389546 - Posted: 10 Jul 2013, 17:28:10 UTC

Not my country but I'll have to agree with Nick after reading up on it. {smile}
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Message 1389547 - Posted: 10 Jul 2013, 17:28:26 UTC

Tidal turbines, eh?
Now....I wonder just how long it shall take for the environmentalists to pipe up and claim they would kill too many fish? Same as the wind turbine/bird argument.
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Message 1389554 - Posted: 10 Jul 2013, 17:39:05 UTC - in response to Message 1389546.  
Last modified: 10 Jul 2013, 17:40:32 UTC

Not my country but I'll have to agree with Nick after reading up on it. {smile}

If they do start to construct the line it will eventually go down the same
road that TSR2 went.....will get cancelled before fully completed.
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Message 1389559 - Posted: 10 Jul 2013, 18:05:05 UTC - in response to Message 1389547.  
Last modified: 10 Jul 2013, 18:07:17 UTC

Tidal turbines, eh?
Now....I wonder just how long it shall take for the environmentalists to pipe up and claim they would kill too many fish? Same as the wind turbine/bird argument.

I should imagine the environmentalists will be all for most of the types of undersea turbines.

The blades are broad and squat and turn slowly (water is a LOT heavier/denser than wind and flows comparatively slowly also). So little danger to fish and seals. Larger mammals have echo location and would likely be scared off by the unnatural noise in any case.

More of concern will be the hazard to fishing trawlers and large vessels...

Which also offers the hope of the areas becoming marine sanctuaries to keep the marauding trawlers of destruction away altogether...


Overall, for the comparatively small areas to be exploited/protected, we should gain a big win all round, including for rejuvenating the marine environment to allow catching MORE fish!


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Message 1389560 - Posted: 10 Jul 2013, 18:08:29 UTC - in response to Message 1389559.  
Last modified: 10 Jul 2013, 18:18:08 UTC

Tidal turbines, eh?
Now....I wonder just how long it shall take for the environmentalists to pipe up and claim they would kill too many fish? Same as the wind turbine/bird argument.

I should imagine the environmentalists will be all for most of the types of undersea turbines.

The blades are broad and squat and turn slowly (water is a LOT heavier/denser than wind and flows comparatively slowly also). So little danger to fish and seals. Larger mammals have echo location and would likely be scared off by the unnatural noise in any case.

More of concern will be the hazard to fishing trawlers and large vessels...

Which also offers the hope of the areas becoming marine sanctuaries to keep the marauding trawlers of destruction away altogether...


Overall, for the comparatively small areas to be exploited/protected, we should gain a big win all round, including for rejuvenating the marine environment to allow catching MORE fish!


All on our only one planet,
Martin

Well, good news then.
I would suggest that in the name of safety and enhancing the positive aspects you hope for, a boating/fishing free zone be enforced in their vicinity.
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Message 1389599 - Posted: 10 Jul 2013, 20:51:56 UTC - in response to Message 1389547.  

Tidal turbines, eh?
Now....I wonder just how long it shall take for the environmentalists to pipe up and claim they would kill too many fish? Same as the wind turbine/bird argument.


Owls and eagles have VARY good eye site and still get killed by wind turbines. Reckon they wont learn till a whale get turned into sushi? Damn tree huggers.....
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Message 1389601 - Posted: 10 Jul 2013, 20:54:49 UTC - in response to Message 1389554.  

Not my country but I'll have to agree with Nick after reading up on it. {smile}

If they do start to construct the line it will eventually go down the same
road that TSR2 went.....will get cancelled before fully completed.


Waste of money no doubt. Perhaps they will build rainbows next? They should raise and sell Unicorns, heck I'll buy a few just to help cover the cost. Honest. ;-)
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Message 1389607 - Posted: 10 Jul 2013, 21:41:14 UTC - in response to Message 1389601.  

Not my country but I'll have to agree with Nick after reading up on it. {smile}

If they do start to construct the line it will eventually go down the same
road that TSR2 went.....will get cancelled before fully completed.


Waste of money no doubt. Perhaps they will build rainbows next? They should raise and sell Unicorns, heck I'll buy a few just to help cover the cost. Honest. ;-)

Well, they do seem to have their heads in the clouds at times so anything is
possible.


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Message 1389609 - Posted: 10 Jul 2013, 21:50:58 UTC - in response to Message 1389607.  
Last modified: 10 Jul 2013, 21:56:11 UTC

Waste of money no doubt. Perhaps they will build rainbows next? They should raise and sell Unicorns, heck I'll buy a few just to help cover the cost. Honest. ;-)

Well, they do seem to have their heads in the clouds at times so anything is
possible.

Just a hint of cynicism?...

For both of the Bristol Barrage and HS2 schemes, there does seem to be something of a grandstanding stance for the present politicians to burn their names into history with some great UK-changing project. Corruptly with a very eager construction industry desperate to squander 50 to 100 BILLION POUNDS? Whatever the project is almost seems irrelevant.

Can we have an all-UK ITER + DEMO fusion reactors for that please instead? Likely less cost and with grand payback guaranteed! Might even save the planet rather than burn it up more quickly.


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Message 1389610 - Posted: 10 Jul 2013, 21:56:36 UTC - in response to Message 1389609.  

Waste of money no doubt. Perhaps they will build rainbows next? They should raise and sell Unicorns, heck I'll buy a few just to help cover the cost. Honest. ;-)

Well, they do seem to have their heads in the clouds at times so anything is
possible.

Just a hint of cynicism?...

For both of the Bristol Barrage and HS2 schemes, there does seem to be something of a grandstanding stance for the present politicians to burn their names into history with some great UK-changing project. Corruptly with a very eager construction industry desperate to squander 50 to 100 BILLION POUNDS? Whatever the project is almost seems irrelevant.

Can we have an all-UK ITER + DEMO fusion reactors for that please instead? Likely less cost and with grand payback guaranteed! Might even save the planet rather than burn it up more quickly.


All on our only one planet,
Martin


I said, honest. I'll buy three Unicorns and one rainbow. What you do with the money is all up to your country. I don't care.
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Message 1389615 - Posted: 10 Jul 2013, 22:15:19 UTC

So now you want man to play with ocean currents. Aren't they what is keeping this world cold in the first place. Now you want to slow down the air conditioner because we are getting hotter? Go post this in the denial thread.

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Message 1389800 - Posted: 11 Jul 2013, 15:54:57 UTC - in response to Message 1389498.  

Coal is natural but dug up by us.

So the below is or isn't natural? And what pumps out more Co2?



What pumps out more Co2, the photo or us?

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