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Climate Change, 'Greenhouse' effects: DENIAL
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William Rothamel Send message Joined: 25 Oct 06 Posts: 3756 Credit: 1,999,735 RAC: 4 |
How about it guys and gals. Do you own a car ? Do you fly on an airplane or take public transport? Do you use electricity in your home? How do you warm your House ? Do you use air conditioning. Do you have a fireplace ? Do you eat meat or vegetables ? Do you have a compost heap ? Do you breathe air ? Are you in favor of street lights ? Do you use a washer, dryer or dishwasher ? Do you own a powered lawn mower, weed wacker, hedge trimmer, power washer. chain saw etc So even if I believed that C0-2 was deleterious I doubt that I would not engage in any of the events listed above. What are all of you non-deniers going to do or propose? Please don't prosthelytize about CO-2 if you engage in any of the above. The world has an over-supply of ignorant hypocrites. |
kittyman Send message Joined: 9 Jul 00 Posts: 51468 Credit: 1,018,363,574 RAC: 1,004 |
How about it guys and gals. The life os Pi/ Oh,. simlly to me politically correct because the planet won't wait. What expedience. What a funding insittution . We'll go here now/ Whether you like it or n9ot./ Don't care much any more about polotics, becaus far too many seem to empluy these dungions only to annoy or incite. And somebody said something about posting links. Yes, I do that. I do that often. Because, at times, I do not have a comment. But. as so many of you seem to have them overflowing. "Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster |
James Sotherden Send message Joined: 16 May 99 Posts: 10436 Credit: 110,373,059 RAC: 54 |
How about it guys and gals. The question I have is. Even if the goverments of the world all got together and said we will impose such a nasty tax on CO2 emissions that it will cease. And all people will be made to live like they did before electricity, gasoline, oil lamps and what ever else we invented after the dark ages. What would you have? Youd have 6 billion humans burning either wood or coal for cooking or heat. Im sure 6 billion fires burning 24/7 would solve the problem of CO2. Like I posted in another thread if the common man cant afford to buy electric cars and windmills and solar power he isnt going to get on the CO2 reduction band wagon. I dont do two of the questions. And I dont want to live like they did in the middle ages. [/quote] Old James |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
How about it guys and gals. Precisely. Which is why all the methods being proposed are going to fail from a social engineering standpoint. In the face of a growing population it is impossible to cut CO2 emissions enough to make a minor dent. Like I posted in another thread if the common man cant afford to buy electric cars and windmills and solar power he isnt going to get on the CO2 reduction band wagon. No one will accept that. Nor is there any need to. However if we don't soon start down a path to limit the worlds population I suspect we will be living not like the middle ages but like the stone ages. |
James Sotherden Send message Joined: 16 May 99 Posts: 10436 Credit: 110,373,059 RAC: 54 |
It agree that population control is needed. But even if we had 0 growth wed still have the problem of nobody wanting to give up their standard of living. Lets take China as an example. They enforce population control but are one of the worlds worst polluters. I dont see them giving up a slice of the economic pie anytime soon. [/quote] Old James |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
It agree that population control is needed. But even if we had 0 growth wed still have the problem of nobody wanting to give up their standard of living. Zero growth? Negative growth is needed! You are right. No country will negotiate away any economic pie. Each will demand a bigger cut. So this reduction is going to have to be made some other way. War being a classic method. Perhaps today however a GM to human staple crops to make them function as birth control. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20147 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Martin, Could be just that there's been a fair flurry of news and counter-news after the big speech by Obama about saving our planet from ourselves... The flurry has been more positive than negative, so further comments listed over on the solutions thread. All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20147 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Here's a typically journalistic shallow summary but at least there are some useful numbers included and some good questions even the Denialists should not honestly be able to deny: Why has global warming stalled? ... climate sceptics have for years pointed out that the world is not warming as rapidly as once forecast. A lot depends on how you do the measurements, of course. Each of the last few decades has been warmer than the last. But start your graph in 1998 - which happened to be an exceptionally warm year - and [then that erroneously suggests] there hasn't been much global warming at all. ... ... what's known as their "radiative forcing". Between 1998-2012, he reckons, manmade greenhouse gases were still the biggest influence, causing warming of 0.48 of a Watt per square metre (a key measure of energy flows to and from the planet). At the same, he estimates, two other natural influences might have led to some cooling: a relatively quiet Sun might have been responsible for a reduction of 0.16 of a Watt/sq m and volcanic eruptions another 0.06 Watt/sq m. A big unknown is the effect of aerosols - tiny particles released by industrial pollution which could cause a further cooling effect. It is thought that the world's massive industrialisation after World War Two contributed to a slight drop in global temperatures in the late 1940s. But the key factor - according to all the speakers at the briefing - is that whatever solar energy is making it through to the surface, much is being absorbed by the hidden depths of the oceans. ... Half a Watt per square metre of extra heat across the entire sunlit globe adds up to an awful lot of extra heating... How quickly do we allow our industrialized pollution to cook ourselves?... All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Intelligent Design Send message Joined: 9 Apr 12 Posts: 3626 Credit: 37,520 RAC: 0 |
Martin, +1 just because I like worms and they don't lie. Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick... |
Intelligent Design Send message Joined: 9 Apr 12 Posts: 3626 Credit: 37,520 RAC: 0 |
Here's a typically journalistic shallow summary but at least there are some useful numbers included and some good questions even the Denialists should not honestly be able to deny: Didn't the court system in your country tell you there wasn't any such thing as global warming? Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick... |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20147 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Didn't the court system in your country... Care to give a link or document that can be discussed? (Rather than the usual unfounded "It can't be so!" randomness?) All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
hum ... Does this sound familiar? x% of scientists believe in xyz therefor it must be true ... Michael Watson wrote: Dr. Davis is far from being the only scientifically trained person to have looked into the UFO problem, and to have concluded that the most reasonable explanation for some of the 10 or 15 % of persistently unidentifiable UFOs is extraterrestrial technology. The list of such persons has grown to considerable length, and contains some quite illustrious names. |
Intelligent Design Send message Joined: 9 Apr 12 Posts: 3626 Credit: 37,520 RAC: 0 |
My bad, it was in my country. This is what I was thinking about. Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick... |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20147 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Phew!! For real!? Thanks for those... My bad, it was in my country. Wow! That is definitely an "Only in America"! Note the emphasis on: "The plaintiffs sought to have their case heard at the Supreme Court level without first working through the lower courts. Among the requirements for the Supreme Court to assert jurisdiction is that the dispute be one of law and not of fact." So... A good shimmy out of that one and the Denialists can still claim what they like. This is what I was thinking about. That swindle of a program has long since been discredited: The Great Global Warming Swindle Unfortunately, in true trash journalistic style, it tells some people what they want to hear for the sake of fraudulent profit in proffering a swindle. Even more unfortunately, it has given credence to a lie by certain fossil Marketing that has 'safeguarded' the profits of the fossil fuels industry for some time yet... All to the cost of everyone else... Turn up the gas some more?! Who do you believe? Make-believe film swindlers or the present 97+% of genuine scientists? All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Nick Send message Joined: 11 Oct 11 Posts: 4344 Credit: 3,313,107 RAC: 0 |
Who do you believe? Make-believe film swindlers or the present 97+% of genuine scientists? Simple, just believe those remaining 3% of scientists who genuinely know what they are talking about....Never follow the herd....never ever follow the herd!!! The Kite Fliers -------------------- Kite fliers: An imaginary club of solo members, those who don't yet belong to a formal team so "fly their own kites" - as the saying goes. |
Intelligent Design Send message Joined: 9 Apr 12 Posts: 3626 Credit: 37,520 RAC: 0 |
Who do you believe? Make-believe film swindlers or the present 97+% of genuine scientists? Never, I blaze my own path in this world. ;-) Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick... |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20147 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Never, I blaze my own path in this world. ;-) And yet, without mutual cooperation, we are doomed :-( Perhaps this really is primarily a game of education, awareness, 'good' and blind selfish 'evil'... All on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30608 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Who do you believe? Make-believe film swindlers or the present 97+% of genuine scientists? What makes the scientist "genuine?" IIRC you have posited that 20 articles published in climate change rags makes one genuine. I think you have also posited about illustrious names making them such. Now we got to this 97% number. Okay. Looks impressive. So we now apply your logic to: Michael Watson wrote: Dr. Davis is far from being the only scientifically trained person to have looked into the UFO problem, and to have concluded that the most reasonable explanation for some of the 10 or 15 % of persistently unidentifiable UFOs is extraterrestrial technology. The list of such persons has grown to considerable length, and contains some quite illustrious names. To be considered genuine they had 20 UFO papers published. Obviously you don't get them published if you claim they don't exist. We now get to the 97% number. Self selection. You had to believe in UFO's to begin with to get published so there is no surprise. Martin, science is not a popularity contest. That man made global warming has come done to being proved correct in exactly the same way that one can prove UFO's exist, says there is a big problem with the proof of man made global warming. A much better proof would be the standard particle physicists use, 5 standard deviations. |
William Rothamel Send message Joined: 25 Oct 06 Posts: 3756 Credit: 1,999,735 RAC: 4 |
Good post . I think that we should concentrate on the absurdity of trying to reduce man made CO-2. let's put a price tag on all of the grand schemes. Some of the no-think, draconian measures will have virtually no effect on overall CO-2 production yet will further wreck our world economy. |
ML1 Send message Joined: 25 Nov 01 Posts: 20147 Credit: 7,508,002 RAC: 20 |
Deny this: North Pole Melting Leaves Small Lake At The Top Of The World The North Pole probably looks a bit different than you would expect right now. Because, at this very moment, it's actually a lake... Amazingly, the fossil-fuel's sponsored Watt's Up buffoon does all the denial unimaginable! Only on our only one planet, Martin See new freedom: Mageia Linux Take a look for yourself: Linux Format The Future is what We all make IT (GPLv3) |
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