Why are we still having to debate about abortion?


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Profile Es99
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Message 1330593 - Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 3:56:45 UTC - in response to Message 1330592.

Anything---ANYTHING, but personal responsibility. Typicl remarks from socialism, but I digress. Sheeple don't understand personal responsibility or rights for that matter.

Ahhh, you've never had sex then?
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Message 1330595 - Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 4:09:37 UTC - in response to Message 1330593.
Last modified: 24 Jan 2013, 4:15:43 UTC

Anything---ANYTHING, but personal responsibility. Typicl remarks from socialism, but I digress. Sheeple don't understand personal responsibility or rights for that matter.

Ahhh, you've never had sex then?

If he isn't a virgin he is in denial of truth, or denial of reality. I'm not a qualified shrink but isn't denial of reality a sufficient symptom to have someone involuntarily held for a psychiatric examination to determine if they are "a danger to themselves or others?" If he is a virgin then he shares at least one trait with a troglodyte leader and clearly is atypical if not abnormal.

<edit>I realize there is a third option. He simply could be a hypocrite. Realizes the reality but refuses to admit it to others.
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Message 1330597 - Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 4:21:08 UTC - in response to Message 1330595.

Anything---ANYTHING, but personal responsibility. Typicl remarks from socialism, but I digress. Sheeple don't understand personal responsibility or rights for that matter.

Ahhh, you've never had sex then?

If he isn't a virgin he is in denial of truth, or denial of reality. I'm not a qualified shrink but isn't denial of reality a sufficient symptom to have someone involuntarily held for a psychiatric examination to determine if they are "a danger to themselves or others?" If he is a virgin then he shares at least one trait with a troglodyte leader and clearly is atypical if not abnormal.

<edit>I realize there is a third option. He simply could be a hypocrite. Realizes the reality but refuses to admit it to others.

There is another option, which has been shown by some of his other posts and even his screen name.

He doesn't understand biology.
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Message 1330598 - Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 4:25:13 UTC

LOL, there is another answer, one that I'm sure neither of you would understand let alone be part of. It's called a marriage and I'm married.

Now the both of you sould really learn to type with BOTH hands. Or you should get married and understand what real men and ladies have in a relationship that includes sex in it. LOL!
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Message 1330599 - Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 4:27:03 UTC - in response to Message 1330597.

There is another option, which has been shown by some of his other posts and even his screen name.

He doesn't understand biology.

I tend to discount that. Given his posting history I suspect he would have to actively seek ignorance, if it were true, which I doubt.


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Message 1330608 - Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 4:54:41 UTC - in response to Message 1330598.

LOL, there is another answer, one that I'm sure neither of you would understand let alone be part of. It's called a marriage and I'm married.

Now the both of you sould really learn to type with BOTH hands. Or you should get married and understand what real men and ladies have in a relationship that includes sex in it. LOL!

Do you actually think that married people don't have abortions?

Let us imagine a scenario where your wife is say 50 years old. The doctor has told her that if she get's pregnant again it will be disastrous to her health. However, because most contraceptives are not 100% effective she has the audacity to fall pregnant.

You are both aware that at her age not only is there a huge risk to your wife, but there is a risk that the child is born disabled. You have other children that depend on your wife's care. They need their mother.

She sounds downright irresponsible to me.

or how about this scenario?

Your wife has cancer, but she falls pregnant. The pregnancy hormones are going to cause the cancer to grow out of control at an rapid rate, add to that the treatment would kill the baby.

Will your marriage protect her then?

How about this scenario?

Your wife gets raped and falls pregnant. The rape has left her traumatised and suicidal. The thought of being forced to carry this constant reminder of such a traumatic event is driving her to despair. Add to that, new legislation tabled by Paul Ryan has ensured that the father of the child can seek custody. You and your wife now have to raise the rapist's child and share custody with the rapist. You both have to see the man the traumatised her for at least the next 20 years.

Or what about this scenario?

You already have 7 children, you are doing your best to look after them, but things are very tight. Your wife falls pregnant. An extra child is going to make life difficult for your current children. They are struggling enough as it is and you are having trouble making sure that they have shoes on their feet. An extra child is going to cause more suffering for your current children.

Or what about this?

Your wife is in her late 50s. She gets pregnant, the child is going to be severely disabled and you will be in your 70s before it is grown. Even then, the child is going to need full time care for the rest of its life.

I could go on. There are so many reasons married women seek abortions. You really are living in an alternate universe if you think it couldn't happen to you.
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Message 1330613 - Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 5:05:50 UTC
Last modified: 24 Jan 2013, 5:07:11 UTC

Don't sidestep the topic YOU brought up ES. I'm married, therefor I have had sex and more then once too.


YOU are the one who has ignored Biology. RIGHT after the first cell division we have unique DNA that pinpoints that unique human WITHIN the mother. This isn't a clump of cells like the wart on the end of your nose. You have unique DNA and the child within the mother ALSO has unique DNA and both tell the story of BEING human.

Your last post is NOTHING but excuses for NOT doing the right thing or avoiding the right thing in the first place. Please be an adult and take personal responsibility for your own actions, just like the rest of us adults.
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Message 1330614 - Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 5:16:28 UTC - in response to Message 1330613.

This isn't a clump of cells like the wart on the end of your nose.

A wart on the end of your nose has human DNA. So by your rules cutting it off is murder.

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Message 1330616 - Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 5:29:21 UTC - in response to Message 1330613.

Don't sidestep the topic YOU brought up ES. I'm married, therefor I have had sex and more then once too.


YOU are the one who has ignored Biology. RIGHT after the first cell division we have unique DNA that pinpoints that unique human WITHIN the mother. This isn't a clump of cells like the wart on the end of your nose. You have unique DNA and the child within the mother ALSO has unique DNA and both tell the story of BEING human.

ID, My little toe is full of the unique DNA that makes up a human being. Doesn't mean it is one.

Can you tell the difference between a fertilised chicken egg and an actual chicken? If not the cooking in your house must be very weird.
Your last post is NOTHING but excuses for NOT doing the right thing or avoiding the right thing in the first place. Please be an adult and take personal responsibility for your own actions, just like the rest of us adults.

I think not bringing a child into the world that you don't want or can't look after is the ultimate in responsible behaviour.

Otherwise I am not sure what you mean. What actions are accusing me of not taking responsibility for? Please explain.

I don't happen to think that a fertilised human egg is actually a human being. I happen to think there is more to a human than dna, that is because I know science.

I happen to think that any man who thinks he has the right to dictate to someone else what they should do when he knows full well he can't end up in that situation is completely refusing to take responsibility. Go out there and demand all men have vasectomies, then I will think you are being responsible. Any other position is judgmental, and misogynistic.

Men AND Women have sex. All I see is you pointing the finger at women and expecting them to clean up the mess while you holler and cry about what you think they should do. And you DARE call me irresponsible?

Grow up. This is the real world. How dare you insist that someone else take responsibility for the consequences and pretend that somehow that makes you an adult.
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Message 1330617 - Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 5:30:29 UTC - in response to Message 1330614.

This isn't a clump of cells like the wart on the end of your nose.

A wart on the end of your nose has human DNA. So by your rules cutting it off is murder.


You deflect from point. Typical socialist tactic. It the same DNA as yourself if that wart is on the end of your own nose.

The life within the mother is unique from the mother and the life/child has rights.
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Message 1330620 - Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 5:33:53 UTC - in response to Message 1330617.

This isn't a clump of cells like the wart on the end of your nose.

A wart on the end of your nose has human DNA. So by your rules cutting it off is murder.


You deflect from point. Typical socialist tactic. It the same DNA as yourself if that wart is on the end of your own nose.

The life within the mother is unique from the mother and the life/child has rights.

It does not have rights.
It is not a fully developed human being.
It cannot survive outside the mother.
It shares the mother's blood supply and as such is part of the mother. The mother is not part of the foetus no matter how much you might wish it.

The mother has rights because she is a human being and it is HER body. Not yours and not the foetus's.
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Message 1330623 - Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 5:52:10 UTC - in response to Message 1330616.

I happen to think there is more to a human than dna, that is because I know science.

A corpse in the ground has DNA, but I don't think it is alive, nor do you. Ergo it isn't DNA that makes something alive. Perhaps in the case of a human it is brain wave activity and an a heartbeat. A zygot has neither, nor a brain or heart. I'd expect ID to say a soul, but that is consciousness, so a persistent vegetative state isn't human life either.



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Message 1330624 - Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 5:57:19 UTC - in response to Message 1330617.

This isn't a clump of cells like the wart on the end of your nose.

A wart on the end of your nose has human DNA. So by your rules cutting it off is murder.


You deflect from point.

I simply point our your logical fallacy.

Something either is or is not human life. You came up with the hypothesis to determine human life and we get to tell you where your hypothesis fails, and in this case rather spectacularly. Come up with a better hypothesis.


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Message 1330630 - Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 6:07:17 UTC - in response to Message 1330617.

So, now a libertarian is a socialist?
How very interesting.
As I mentioned earlier, Rush L. claimed it was the liberals that shift the meanings of words.
So, either Gary is a socialist, or I.D. calls anyone that disagrees with him (on at least 1 thing) a socialist.
I wonder how which is true?
And how the field of allies shrinks?

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Message 1330631 - Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 6:08:36 UTC - in response to Message 1330624.

This isn't a clump of cells like the wart on the end of your nose.

A wart on the end of your nose has human DNA. So by your rules cutting it off is murder.


You deflect from point.

I simply point our your logical fallacy.

Something either is or is not human life. You came up with the hypothesis to determine human life and we get to tell you where your hypothesis fails, and in this case rather spectacularly. Come up with a better hypothesis.



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Message 1330632 - Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 6:20:57 UTC - in response to Message 1330630.

So, now a libertarian is a socialist?
How very interesting.

Yes. I've been called a teapublican, a republican, a repugnantican, a liberal, a socialist, a communist, a statist, and a libertarian. I don't think I've been called a centrist yet. I think I said I don't herd well. Perhaps that is true of libertarians and why we don't have an effective political party.

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Message 1330633 - Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 6:29:55 UTC - in response to Message 1330617.



You deflect from point. Typical socialist tactic. It the same DNA as yourself if that wart is on the end of your own nose.

The life within the mother is unique from the mother and the life/child has rights.


Wrong - a baby only shares half of its DNA with its mother, most of the remaining 50% is from its father, and a tiny bit is unique to that child. This is the case from before the first cell division, and continues right through to death. It is this combination of DNA from both parents, and the unique bit that gives uniqueness - 100% DNA from one parent would lead to something akin to a clone, or a single-cell, non-sexual life form.


(It is thought that the tiny bit of non-parental DNA is actually damaged DNA, which may account for some congenital deformities)
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Message 1330634 - Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 6:30:21 UTC

I've never Had A Clump Of Cells In Me Become A Human Baby or Delivered Cells Into Another which Became A Human Baby.

The Person with The Clump Of Cells in them, which are Dividing and Can Become A Human, has The Only Say in The Final Destination of Said Cells.

PROFessor S. Say: I Have Been A Clump Of Cells, Been In A Cell, and Around Other Cells.
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Message 1330635 - Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 6:30:54 UTC

Ya, so if a single cell is found on another planet it wouldn't REALLY be life then would it?

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."
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Message 1330637 - Posted: 24 Jan 2013, 6:34:01 UTC - in response to Message 1330633.



You deflect from point. Typical socialist tactic. It the same DNA as yourself if that wart is on the end of your own nose.

The life within the mother is unique from the mother and the life/child has rights.


Wrong - a baby only shares half of its DNA with its mother, most of the remaining 50% is from its father, and a tiny bit is unique to that child. This is the case from before the first cell division, and continues right through to death. It is this combination of DNA from both parents, and the unique bit that gives uniqueness - 100% DNA from one parent would lead to something akin to a clone, or a single-cell, non-sexual life form.


(It is thought that the tiny bit of non-parental DNA is actually damaged DNA, which may account for some congenital deformities)


What the hell? I said unique. I didn't say it wasn't 50% and 50%. As a matter of fact unique FROM the mother and father, unique like finger prints, unique of it OWN. It is HUMAN life.
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