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Message 1326424 - Posted: 10 Jan 2013, 18:49:43 UTC

U.S. Health in International Perspective:
Shorter Lives, Poorer Health


Although the United States spends more on health care than any other nation, a growing body of research shows that Americans are in poorer health and live shorter lives than people in many other high-income countries.

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Message 1326740 - Posted: 11 Jan 2013, 18:06:45 UTC - in response to Message 1326424.

I'll say it again. God Bless Capitalism. For allowing illicit and poor life choices to be the norm.
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Message 1326741 - Posted: 11 Jan 2013, 18:16:20 UTC
Last modified: 11 Jan 2013, 18:20:01 UTC

That's what happens when health care is too expensive for people.

Regular check-ups are neglected. Even people with insurance often cannot afford a needed surgery, or even afford to go to the doctor when they suspect something is wrong.

For almost 10 years, every year my costs have gone up or stayed the same, all the while the benefits were being lowered annually.

Now, at my place of employment those of us with families are spending 150$ per week, for insurance that DOESN'T COVER 1 PENNY until you've spent over 3000$ out of pocket on top of the weekly premium!!! (At my place of employment, I'd guess the median Gross pay is about 450$/week..... You do that math. Yep.)

And this is considered OK!? Because anything else would be 'Socialism'..

Corporate profit has no place in the health care system. It's barbaric.
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Message 1326778 - Posted: 11 Jan 2013, 19:31:04 UTC

I cant argue with that EX, On a 40 work week my bring home pay is $455.00 a week. My medical is only $81.00 a week. But that is still a big dent every week.
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Message 1326808 - Posted: 11 Jan 2013, 20:10:02 UTC - in response to Message 1326778.
Last modified: 11 Jan 2013, 20:10:39 UTC

I cant argue with that EX, On a 40 work week my bring home pay is $455.00 a week. My medical is only $81.00 a week. But that is still a big dent every week.

These numbers seem very high.

Why are Americans fighting so hard against a cheaper, better system?

Where I am in BC the payment for Health Insurance is $125 per month and that covers our family of 5...and that covers almost everything apart from prescriptions. You can buy cover for those separately.

On your salary you wouldn't even have to pay the full amount, if anything.
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Message 1326846 - Posted: 11 Jan 2013, 22:16:35 UTC - in response to Message 1326808.

The American people are not fighting against a more cost effective health care system, the health care industry is doing most of the fighting.
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Message 1326862 - Posted: 11 Jan 2013, 22:53:14 UTC - in response to Message 1326846.

you mean the health insurance companies are doing the fighting
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Message 1326866 - Posted: 11 Jan 2013, 23:09:48 UTC - in response to Message 1326862.
Last modified: 11 Jan 2013, 23:10:03 UTC

I feel the drug companies are a major component also.
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Message 1326979 - Posted: 12 Jan 2013, 6:00:22 UTC - in response to Message 1326741.

That's what happens when health care is too expensive for people.

Regular check-ups are neglected. Even people with insurance often cannot afford a needed surgery, or even afford to go to the doctor when they suspect something is wrong.

It is the insurance that people can't afford. Regular checkups cost far less than the insurance premium. Also it isn't the Doctor that is the expensive part, it is the lab tests. How the hell is putting a drop of blood in a machine that damn expensive? Could it be malpractice insurance? Could it be product liability insurance for the maker of the machine? Or is it just flat out greed on the part of everyone?

Example: Lab I go to charges a $20 "draw fee." Average time for the tech is 10 minutes per. Place always has a line. That is $120/hr per tech. Just checked and average RN pay is $26/hr. I suspect they aren't full RN's either. Nice mark up. Then there are the fees for each test. I doubt that much electricity is used by the machine doing the test, so it is all pure markup.

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Message 1327052 - Posted: 12 Jan 2013, 8:33:31 UTC - in response to Message 1326979.

That's what happens when health care is too expensive for people.

Regular check-ups are neglected. Even people with insurance often cannot afford a needed surgery, or even afford to go to the doctor when they suspect something is wrong.

It is the insurance that people can't afford. Regular checkups cost far less than the insurance premium. Also it isn't the Doctor that is the expensive part, it is the lab tests. How the hell is putting a drop of blood in a machine that damn expensive? Could it be malpractice insurance? Could it be product liability insurance for the maker of the machine? Or is it just flat out greed on the part of everyone?

Example: Lab I go to charges a $20 "draw fee." Average time for the tech is 10 minutes per. Place always has a line. That is $120/hr per tech. Just checked and average RN pay is $26/hr. I suspect they aren't full RN's either. Nice mark up. Then there are the fees for each test. I doubt that much electricity is used by the machine doing the test, so it is all pure markup.


All valid points for sure.
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Message 1327100 - Posted: 12 Jan 2013, 12:08:01 UTC

Im sure even the Obama care isnt going to be cheaper for us folks either. It was crfated by law makers who have pals and lobbyists who work for the drug and health care providers.

I know a few people at work who opt out of the health insurance just because of the cost. They reason that they are still young and need the money in the paycheck more. They are just one major illnes away from financial disaster.
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Message 1327181 - Posted: 12 Jan 2013, 21:09:34 UTC - in response to Message 1327100.

They are just one major illnes away from financial disaster.

The very same can be said about fire insurance. But why is it in the case of illness people insist on free treatment when they didn't purchase insurance? Shouldn't people who have a fire but didn't purchase fire insurance have their place and possessions restored by the government?

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Message 1327196 - Posted: 12 Jan 2013, 22:12:24 UTC - in response to Message 1327181.
Last modified: 12 Jan 2013, 22:12:55 UTC

They are just one major illnes away from financial disaster.

The very same can be said about fire insurance. But why is it in the case of illness people insist on free treatment when they didn't purchase insurance? Shouldn't people who have a fire but didn't purchase fire insurance have their place and possessions restored by the government?

I think that is a straw man argument, it is more like a case where the fire dept does not respond because you are not a tax paying resident in their district.
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Message 1327262 - Posted: 13 Jan 2013, 2:12:06 UTC - in response to Message 1327196.

They are just one major illnes away from financial disaster.

The very same can be said about fire insurance. But why is it in the case of illness people insist on free treatment when they didn't purchase insurance? Shouldn't people who have a fire but didn't purchase fire insurance have their place and possessions restored by the government?

I think that is a straw man argument, it is more like a case where the fire dept does not respond because you are not a tax paying resident in their district.

Perhaps you meant to say won't respond because you didn't pay the bill. However doctors will take cash unlike fire departments which won't take a late payment.

There are also still some health plans out there where you have to pay the bill and then send it to the insurance company to get reimbursed, not all are HMO/PPO everything must be pre-approved stuff. Of course Obama care will erase that.

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Message 1327267 - Posted: 13 Jan 2013, 2:27:47 UTC

The health insurance approach to healthcare astonishes me in a rich country like the USA, where >25% of the population has little cover. Amazing ...
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Message 1327286 - Posted: 13 Jan 2013, 5:01:53 UTC - in response to Message 1327181.

They are just one major illnes away from financial disaster.

The very same can be said about fire insurance. But why is it in the case of illness people insist on free treatment when they didn't purchase insurance? Shouldn't people who have a fire but didn't purchase fire insurance have their place and possessions restored by the government?

A house is very different than a human life.
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Message 1327313 - Posted: 13 Jan 2013, 8:13:56 UTC - in response to Message 1327181.
Last modified: 13 Jan 2013, 8:19:00 UTC

The very same can be said about fire insurance. But why is it in the case of illness people insist on free treatment when they didn't purchase insurance? Shouldn't people who have a fire but didn't purchase fire insurance have their place and possessions restored by the government?

Definitely a "straw man" argument.

Nobody ever died because of a lack of fire insurance and from what I read, rebuilding your house is cheaper in the US than most life saving operations and the associated care.

I don't think anyone wants "free" medical care, they just want the health care and health insurance to be affordable.

Gary, while we agree on many things, I find it very hard to understand your attitudes on public health care. Are you trolling, or just an unfeeling, asocial b*st*rd ?

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Message 1327364 - Posted: 13 Jan 2013, 15:35:49 UTC - in response to Message 1326846.
Last modified: 13 Jan 2013, 15:36:24 UTC

The American people are not fighting against a more cost effective health care system, the health care industry is doing most of the fighting.


*most of the American people are not fighting against it, but many are.
I suppose the very people in the US that are against public healthcare would rather spend 50-200$/week than have taxes go up far less than that amount.

And, even if all of the American people get on board with public health care, then of course there's still the lobbied interests that will do everything they can to prevent it. This country is just too set in its ways for major change like that.

And people are right when they say Obamacare is not the answer... It's a very righ-wing plan that ultimately will help the private insurance sector more than the American public.

There is a simple solution that could work, public funded single payer healthcare. Unfortunately it means higher taxes for everyone, the positive being lower health costs out of your pocket, and oh yea you don't have to worry about being in debt for the rest of your life if you get appendicitis. And to those people here who are so anti-public healthcare, maybe they need education on the private add-on options available in countries with publicly funded systems.
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Message 1327381 - Posted: 13 Jan 2013, 16:46:25 UTC - in response to Message 1327313.

Nobody ever died because of a lack of fire insurance and from what I read, rebuilding your house is cheaper in the US than most life saving operations and the associated care.

Love your straw man. Every hospital emergency room in the US must treat.

I don't think anyone wants "free" medical care, they just want the health care and health insurance to be affordable.

Perhaps you should read more American media. Try some of the local outlets, the ones closer to the people.

Gary, while we agree on many things, I find it very hard to understand your attitudes on public health care. Are you trolling, or just an unfeeling, asocial b*st*rd ?

T.A.

Why do you wish to run other people's lives? To tell them what they must do, e.g. buy single payer medical insurance.

Continuing to throw ever bigger piles of cash to the same broken system in some vain hope that more cash will fix it is crazy. Perhaps I'm just sane.

Let me toss something out there. As a holder of a driver's license I'm required to present myself to the state every so often to be re-tested. Is a doctor, nurse or any other medical tech?

What is the largest cost on the profit and loss statement of a medical professional? Is it malpractice insurance?

Do you think the above two might be linked in some manner?

It is way past time for the medical quality boards to get serious about quacks and mills. Time to require them to send out "patients" to be seen to be sure that treatment is correct. Time to require retesting based on current standards to make sure skills haven't lapsed. If you want to throw money, throw money at the boards for quality of care enforcement. Right now all they check for is excessive oxycontin prescribing or false billing to medicare (government funds).

I know there is a continuing education requirement. Went looking at one code. It requires the licensee to take the class. It doesn't require them to pass the class! It doesn't require the class to be relevant! It is a joke!

Malpractice costs are out the roof because malpractice is rampant. Fix what is broken first.

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Message 1327394 - Posted: 13 Jan 2013, 17:25:13 UTC - in response to Message 1327381.

Nobody ever died because of a lack of fire insurance and from what I read, rebuilding your house is cheaper in the US than most life saving operations and the associated care.

Love your straw man. Every hospital emergency room in the US must treat.

Correct me if I'm wrong but if a patient presents at an emergency room with a heart attack or similar. Isn't all the emergency ward required to do is stabilise them and stop them from dying ? I don't think the bypass surgery that may be required is included in the "must treat" category.

Why do you wish to run other people's lives? To tell them what they must do, e.g. buy single payer medical insurance.

If the cost of full cover medical insurance was only 1.5% of their taxable income I don't think too many would see it as "being forced".

Malpractice costs are out the roof because malpractice is rampant.....

But is it actually Medical malpractice or Legal Malpractice that is rampant ? Are the doctors really at fault or is it the ambulance chasing lawyers, courts that award unrealistic damages and plaintiffs full of the desire for a quick, unearned buck that is the problem there ?

T.A.

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