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Aero
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Message 1324219 - Posted: 3 Jan 2013, 17:20:25 UTC

Hi crunchers,
I have a system which I'd like to leverage for SETI by installing a SETI capable GPU. The system has AGP so I'm currently searching for used AGP cards. I'm just wondering if I should be looking strictly for NVidia CUDA cards, because from what I can see, it's hard to tell before hand whether an ATI card will be compatible with SETI.

Is that pretty much correct? Better to not consider any ATI cards even if in specs it looks like it should be SETI capable?

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Message 1324303 - Posted: 3 Jan 2013, 19:34:56 UTC

Actually the only AGP cards you will be able to use are ATI. HD2000 and newer can be used with the lunatics hybrid Astropulse app, but for OpenCL support you need a newer HD4000 card.

You would probably be better off getting an older 8000 or 9000 NVIDIA PCI card or two for the system.

Either way you will be spending a fair amount of money on some pretty old tech, but if it what you want to do we will try to help you find what you want.

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Message 1324359 - Posted: 3 Jan 2013, 20:27:20 UTC - in response to Message 1324303.
Last modified: 3 Jan 2013, 20:30:23 UTC

Hi, Thanks for your reply.

Oh so no AGP NVidia has CUDA?

Was just looking and I think a 8000 or 9000 PCI might be difficult to find.

But you're saying that chances of SETI compatibility are pretty good with an AGP HD4000 or better? I have seen a Club 3D Radeon HD3850 512 MB AGP for sale. It's got good specs, but it's not 4000 series, so not sure about that one.

Cheers
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Message 1324364 - Posted: 3 Jan 2013, 20:36:20 UTC - in response to Message 1324303.

You would probably be better off getting an older 8000 or 9000 NVIDIA PCI card or two for the system.


This would work.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814139050

But I agree with HAL, you are spending good money on old technology. That card only has 16 CUDA cores. It works, but not very quickly.

I have a couple of GF 8400s, they work fine, and boost the throughput of a Core 2 Duo by about 50%. AS they cost me nothing, I run them. But I wouldn't go and pay money for one.

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Message 1324365 - Posted: 3 Jan 2013, 20:42:51 UTC - in response to Message 1324364.

You would probably be better off getting an older 8000 or 9000 NVIDIA PCI card or two for the system.


This would work.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814139050
....

Thanks for reply. Yeah I wouldn't spend $80 on a new PCI card. There are people selling better spec used AGP cards now and then. If I could find a HD4000+ AGP used, then price wise I'd be happier with that.

Cheers

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Message 1324370 - Posted: 3 Jan 2013, 21:08:31 UTC - in response to Message 1324365.

You would probably be better off getting an older 8000 or 9000 NVIDIA PCI card or two for the system.


This would work.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814139050
....

Thanks for reply. Yeah I wouldn't spend $80 on a new PCI card. There are people selling better spec used AGP cards now and then. If I could find a HD4000+ AGP used, then price wise I'd be happier with that.

Cheers

The HD3850 is not really one you would want to buy for crunching. As it lacks OpenCL support it will only run the hybrid Astropulse application. I have one in my old P4 machine.

I have seen both HD4650 & HD4670 cards in AGP. A HD4350 is borderline, but has been known to work.

Also I have remember that lunatics OpenCL application requires the CPU support SSE3. Which could stop everything in its tracks for an ATI card for you.

If you are not familiar with SSE you can grab CPUID & run it. http://www.cpuid.com/downloads/cpu-z/1.62-32bits-en.zip It will display a section with "Instructions" Which you would want to see SSE (1, 2, 3)
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Message 1324381 - Posted: 3 Jan 2013, 21:48:11 UTC - in response to Message 1324370.


The HD3850 is not really one you would want to buy for crunching. As it lacks OpenCL support it will only run the hybrid Astropulse application. I have one in my old P4 machine.

I have seen both HD4650 & HD4670 cards in AGP. A HD4350 is borderline, but has been known to work.

Also I have remember that lunatics OpenCL application requires the CPU support SSE3. Which could stop everything in its tracks for an ATI card for you.

If you are not familiar with SSE you can grab CPUID & run it. http://www.cpuid.com/downloads/cpu-z/1.62-32bits-en.zip It will display a section with "Instructions" Which you would want to see SSE (1, 2, 3)

Thanks for the info.

The rig in question has a P4 3.2 and has SSE(1,2) according to CPUID, but not SSE3. So that means this idea might not work?

Cheers

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Message 1324382 - Posted: 3 Jan 2013, 21:52:56 UTC - in response to Message 1324370.
Last modified: 3 Jan 2013, 22:02:39 UTC

You would probably be better off getting an older 8000 or 9000 NVIDIA PCI card or two for the system.


This would work.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814139050
....

Thanks for reply. Yeah I wouldn't spend $80 on a new PCI card. There are people selling better spec used AGP cards now and then. If I could find a HD4000+ AGP used, then price wise I'd be happier with that.

Cheers

The HD3850 is not really one you would want to buy for crunching. As it lacks OpenCL support it will only run the hybrid Astropulse application. I have one in my old P4 machine.

I have seen both HD4650 & HD4670 cards in AGP. A HD4350 is borderline, but has been known to work.

Also I have remember that lunatics OpenCL application requires the CPU support SSE3. Which could stop everything in its tracks for an ATI card for you.

If you are not familiar with SSE you can grab CPUID & run it. http://www.cpuid.com/downloads/cpu-z/1.62-32bits-en.zip It will display a section with "Instructions" Which you would want to see SSE (1, 2, 3)

The latest Nvidia and ATI Astropulse apps only require SSE2 (ie the Stock NV and ATI/AMD AP apps), and the latest ATI MBv7 app (ie the Seti Beta ATI v7 app) only requires SSE, (whether that will work on a HD4*** GPU is open to question),
BUT for ATI/AMD GPUs to be OpenCL capable they must have a SSE2 capable processor,

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Message 1324383 - Posted: 3 Jan 2013, 21:56:27 UTC - in response to Message 1324381.

The rig in question has a P4 3.2 and has SSE(1,2) according to CPUID, but not SSE3. So that means this idea might not work?

It should work no problem, see my last post.

Does it have PNI? (Prescott New Instructions is also known as SSE3)

Claggy

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Message 1324385 - Posted: 3 Jan 2013, 22:02:33 UTC - in response to Message 1324383.

The rig in question has a P4 3.2 and has SSE(1,2) according to CPUID, but not SSE3. So that means this idea might not work?

It should work no problem, see my last post.

Does it have PNI? (Prescott New Instructions is also known as SSE3)

Claggy

Thanks for info.

Slight update to my situation: Silly me, I just realized I have a HD4650 collecting dust on the shelf. Doh. I tried using it some time back and for some reason couldn't get the AMD supplied unified driver package for it to work. It installed "catalyst installation manager" but for some reason didn't detect the card and installed no driver for it. It's a GigaByte branded HD4650.

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Message 1324387 - Posted: 3 Jan 2013, 22:04:35 UTC - in response to Message 1324385.
Last modified: 3 Jan 2013, 22:18:04 UTC

Slight update to my situation: Silly me, I just realized I have a HD4650 collecting dust on the shelf. Doh. I tried using it some time back and for some reason couldn't get the AMD supplied unified driver package for it to work. It installed "catalyst installation manager" but for some reason didn't detect the card and installed no driver for it. It's a GigaByte branded HD4650.

You need the AGP hotfix driver, What OS will you want to run it on?

If you want to run it on XP the last driver you can use is 12.1, as OpenCL support is deprecated for XP from Cat 12.2,
and HD4*** support is deprecated from SDK2.8, what the maximum driver you can use is unknown at the moment:

ATI Driver Version Cheat Sheet

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Message 1324389 - Posted: 3 Jan 2013, 22:11:44 UTC - in response to Message 1324387.

Slight update to my situation: Silly me, I just realized I have a HD4650 collecting dust on the shelf. Doh. I tried using it some time back and for some reason couldn't get the AMD supplied unified driver package for it to work. It installed "catalyst installation manager" but for some reason didn't detect the card and installed no driver for it. It's a GigaByte branded HD4650.

You need the AGP hotfix driver, What OS will you want to run it on?

Claggy

I just now happened to find the same solution through a search:
http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/CatalystAGPHotfix.aspx

Is that the one that you mean? I'll be trying this on WinXP.

I'm excited to try this. But I'll need a special build of the SETI apps to make this work? The "lunatic" thing?

Cheers

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Message 1324391 - Posted: 3 Jan 2013, 22:18:16 UTC

First make sure OpenCL is supported by your card.

The HD 4650 only has beta level support.

Run GPUz and see if OpenCL is checked.


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Message 1324392 - Posted: 3 Jan 2013, 22:21:52 UTC - in response to Message 1324389.
Last modified: 3 Jan 2013, 22:25:27 UTC

Slight update to my situation: Silly me, I just realized I have a HD4650 collecting dust on the shelf. Doh. I tried using it some time back and for some reason couldn't get the AMD supplied unified driver package for it to work. It installed "catalyst installation manager" but for some reason didn't detect the card and installed no driver for it. It's a GigaByte branded HD4650.

You need the AGP hotfix driver, What OS will you want to run it on?

Claggy

I just now happened to find the same solution through a search:
http://support.amd.com/us/kbarticles/Pages/CatalystAGPHotfix.aspx

Is that the one that you mean? I'll be trying this on WinXP.

I'm excited to try this. But I'll need a special build of the SETI apps to make this work? The "lunatic" thing?

Cheers

Here's the url for the Cat 12.1 AGP hotfix driver (see my earlier post to why to run this driver):

http://www2.ati.com/drivers/hotfix/12-1_agp-hotfix_xp32_dd_ccc.exe

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Message 1324393 - Posted: 3 Jan 2013, 22:24:44 UTC - in response to Message 1324391.
Last modified: 3 Jan 2013, 22:26:36 UTC

First make sure OpenCL is supported by your card.

The HD 4650 only has beta level support.

Run GPUz and see if OpenCL is checked.


GPU-Z can't always be trusted, it never showed a tick for OpenCL support on my 8400M GS, when it is is there,
Better to use GPUCapsViewer, then you can see what platforms and devices are available, or use CLinfo.

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Message 1324394 - Posted: 3 Jan 2013, 22:29:46 UTC - in response to Message 1324393.

Thats true but on 4650 he dont need to try if it is unchecked.
At least MBs wont work.

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Message 1324398 - Posted: 3 Jan 2013, 22:40:41 UTC - in response to Message 1324392.

Here's the url for the Cat 12.1 AGP hotfix driver (see my earlier post to why to run this driver):

http://www2.ati.com/drivers/hotfix/12-1_agp-hotfix_xp32_dd_ccc.exe

Claggy

Ok thanks. I read the update to your previous post. So the driver must be v12.1 for this to work. Downloaded it and will have time to install the card and try out everything within next couple of days. I'll report back. Thanks! :)

And thanks everyone for all the input and information!

Cheers

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Message 1324574 - Posted: 4 Jan 2013, 13:44:23 UTC

Hi again,
I've installed the card with the v12.1 hotfix and the card is working and recognized by the project as AMD ATI Radeon HD 4600 series (R730) (1024MB) driver: 1.4.1664

It appears to be working fine and GPU-Z shows the opencl box as checked.

I have "ATI GPU" option enabled in my SETI preferences, but SETI so far has not sent any GPU WU's (don't think that the scheduled downtime has started yet). BOINC also did not do a bench test on the GPU (I thought it would have done that).

I'm still confused about the lunatic builds. According to the website, two of the installers have been pulled because of "licensing concerns", but there are other files as well. Is there something from there I should get?
http://lunatics.kwsn.net/index.php?module=Downloads

Cheers

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Message 1324581 - Posted: 4 Jan 2013, 14:22:41 UTC

What you want to know is the max work group size of the card.

Run CLinfo in a cmdline window and check this please.

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Message 1324585 - Posted: 4 Jan 2013, 14:38:38 UTC - in response to Message 1324574.
Last modified: 4 Jan 2013, 14:40:38 UTC

Hi again,
I've installed the card with the v12.1 hotfix and the card is working and recognized by the project as AMD ATI Radeon HD 4600 series (R730) (1024MB) driver: 1.4.1664

It appears to be working fine and GPU-Z shows the opencl box as checked.

I have "ATI GPU" option enabled in my SETI preferences, but SETI so far has not sent any GPU WU's (don't think that the scheduled downtime has started yet). BOINC also did not do a bench test on the GPU (I thought it would have done that).

I'm still confused about the lunatic builds. According to the website, two of the installers have been pulled because of "licensing concerns", but there are other files as well. Is there something from there I should get?
http://lunatics.kwsn.net/index.php?module=Downloads

Cheers

BOINC doesn't benchmark the GPU at this time. It uses the manufacture specified number for the card. Which is probably 383, or 416 GFLOPS for the card.
Right now there are only GPU Apps to download. The app "AP 6.01 r555 ATI OpenCL" is the most recently. However, "ATI OpenCL MultiBeam 6.10 App (rev177) for Windows" is an older version. I am not sure if the most recent version (r390) is subject to the licensing issue or not. It is possible to create an app_info.xml file that would let you run the stock CPU apps and the optimized GPU apps, but it can be a bit tricky.
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