Discussion of Cafe games #5

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Profile Julie
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Message 1399494 - Posted: 6 Aug 2013, 12:14:46 UTC - in response to Message 1399489.  

I still think we fall under fair usage policy unless the copyright holder complains.
In academia it's usually enough to cite the author - maybe we can adopt a strategy of acknowleding the source (in case of mystery pics after the solution was found).


I totally agree.


+1
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Message 1399966 - Posted: 7 Aug 2013, 4:29:34 UTC - in response to Message 1399446.  
Last modified: 7 Aug 2013, 5:22:01 UTC

I still think we fall under fair usage policy unless the copyright holder complains.
In academia it's usually enough to cite the author - maybe we can adopt a strategy of acknowleding the source (in case of mystery pics after the solution was found).

It was Fred who told us that he was told to hide copyright pictures. I cant remember if was the Legal office who told him or legal told The Admins who told Fred.

Its been so long maybe it has slipped off the radar. So I will PM Fred and see if he has heard anything.

Edit- I PMed Fred, So I awaite his response.
[/quote]

Old James
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Message 1400094 - Posted: 7 Aug 2013, 11:28:04 UTC

Lick my neck, lick my back, lick my p...

Erm, maybe not! I'm withdrawing this caption from shame


Over here we have the saying 'if you say A, you must say B as well'...;)
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Message 1400096 - Posted: 7 Aug 2013, 11:32:17 UTC - in response to Message 1400094.  

Lick my neck, lick my back, lick my p...

Erm, maybe not! I'm withdrawing this caption from shame


Over here we have the saying 'if you say A, you must say B as well'...;)

Not without falling foul of several of the rules.
Life on earth is the global equivalent of not storing things in the fridge.
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Message 1400126 - Posted: 7 Aug 2013, 12:46:58 UTC - in response to Message 1400096.  

Lick my neck, lick my back, lick my p...

Erm, maybe not! I'm withdrawing this caption from shame


Over here we have the saying 'if you say A, you must say B as well'...;)

Not without falling foul of several of the rules.



Probably...;)
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Message 1400257 - Posted: 7 Aug 2013, 17:46:21 UTC

The problem with Fair Use as a defense is that it is only considered on a case-by-case basis, and there hasn't been any hard-set rules which determine exactly what is Fair Use and what is not. There are several cases of precedence in the U.S. legal system, but these may or may not be considered by the presiding judge.

For reference, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Common_misunderstandings. Simply acknowledging the source or author does not automatically make it Fair Use, and there are no special provisions for academia as far as I can tell. Noncommercial/non-profit use is also not necessarily valid for Fair Use.

Since SETI@home does not have the funds to afford a legal team to fend off every copyright holder who claims we violate their rights, we will be forced to comply with take-down notices as they come in. Otherwise, I'm perfectly OK with assuming our uses are Fair Use.

-Fred
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Message 1400267 - Posted: 7 Aug 2013, 17:57:07 UTC

Thanks Fred. The current approach makes sense.



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Message 1400288 - Posted: 7 Aug 2013, 18:45:37 UTC - in response to Message 1400267.  

Thanks Fred. The current approach makes sense.

To me too.

David
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Message 1400314 - Posted: 7 Aug 2013, 19:40:16 UTC - in response to Message 1400288.  

Thanks Fred. The current approach makes sense.

To me too.


+2
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Message 1400426 - Posted: 8 Aug 2013, 4:09:25 UTC

Thank you Fred for posting the answer.

I know Fred is a busy man, So I asked him if I could post his resonse to me in the thread. He took the time to post it himself. Thanks again Fred.
[/quote]

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Message 1400428 - Posted: 8 Aug 2013, 4:14:23 UTC
Last modified: 8 Aug 2013, 4:34:26 UTC

If we lift an image off someones personal web site then I can clearly see
infringements of copyright. But if we lift that same image off a Google web page,
via an image search, then if we are still infringing upon copyright so must Google be infringing too.
....or am I completely miss-guiding myself here?
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Message 1400433 - Posted: 8 Aug 2013, 4:28:55 UTC

Some say its ok and some say it is not. Back when all this flap started I had read conflicting reports about what you are asking. What confuses the issue even more is that countries have different laws about copyrights.

I would say if you can find a pic that isnt copyrighetd use it, But as Fred said if the owner complains then it gets hid.
[/quote]

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Message 1400447 - Posted: 8 Aug 2013, 5:13:11 UTC
Last modified: 8 Aug 2013, 5:13:40 UTC

I wonder if there is a way of carrying out an image search on Google that could
include a tag requesting no copyright images to be included in search results?
The Kite Fliers

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Message 1400461 - Posted: 8 Aug 2013, 5:41:46 UTC

Copyright law even within one country can be confusing in its interpretation, never mind the complexities of international copyright. Take the phrase "small extracts for the purposes of review" and define the meaning of each of the two sub-phrases.... (don't bother if you asked ten copyright lawyers for their interpretation you would get twelve answers).

Answering Nick's thought, I doubt that it would help much as many pictures that have obvious copyright watermarks don't have that fact listed in their tags. If you want to use an image that you didn't create then there are a few steps, examine the image, does it have a visible copyright watermark? look at its exif data, sometimes a note can be placed there, look at the hosting page (not the google search page, but the actual hosting page), then the hosting gallery. Its a pain, but if you want to avoid problems downstream doing these steps at least demonstrates you have taken due care.
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Message 1400475 - Posted: 8 Aug 2013, 6:44:39 UTC

I would still ask posters to be carefull on where they get the pictures or cartoons or whatever that might be copyrighted.
Being asked to hide a pic is vastly different then being sued.

So that being said, Have fun.
[/quote]

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Message 1400645 - Posted: 8 Aug 2013, 15:23:28 UTC - in response to Message 1400428.  

If we lift an image off someones personal web site then I can clearly see
infringements of copyright. But if we lift that same image off a Google web page,
via an image search, then if we are still infringing upon copyright so must Google be infringing too.
....or am I completely miss-guiding myself here?

That is a very good question. It is also a major bone of contention between the search engines and content owners, one that is far from settled to anyone's satisfaction.

As for international laws, all you furriners should probably keep in mind that UCB is in the United States and therefore mostly concerned with US law.

David
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Message 1400646 - Posted: 8 Aug 2013, 15:24:22 UTC - in response to Message 1400447.  

I wonder if there is a way of carrying out an image search on Google that could
include a tag requesting no copyright images to be included in search results?

Nope. Unless the photographer expressly (in writing) disclaims the copyright, it is copyrighted. Copyright exists from the time of creation and for a photograph that is when the shutter button is pressed. So if the photo isn't on Wikimedia or a similar site, it is copyrighted.

That is the problem is saying don't post copyrighted photos, they all are copyrighted. So in essence it is saying don't post photographs.

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Message 1400731 - Posted: 8 Aug 2013, 18:01:48 UTC - in response to Message 1400428.  

If we lift an image off someones personal web site then I can clearly see
infringements of copyright. But if we lift that same image off a Google web page, via an image search, then if we are still infringing upon copyright so must Google be infringing too.
....or am I completely miss-guiding myself here?

Not necessarily. Google may (probably does) have a licensing agreement with the copyright holder for use of the image, especially where the image source is credited. Third-parties would not be covered by that license.
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Message 1400744 - Posted: 8 Aug 2013, 18:26:50 UTC - in response to Message 1400731.  

If we lift an image off someones personal web site then I can clearly see
infringements of copyright. But if we lift that same image off a Google web page, via an image search, then if we are still infringing upon copyright so must Google be infringing too.
....or am I completely miss-guiding myself here?

Not necessarily. Google may (probably does) have a licensing agreement with the copyright holder for use of the image, especially where the image source is credited. Third-parties would not be covered by that license.

Google does not have any license. Google has lots and lots of lawyers and argues fair use, and so far they have won. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_10,_Inc._v._Google_Inc. and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_10,_Inc._v._Amazon.com,_Inc.


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Message 1401081 - Posted: 9 Aug 2013, 15:20:42 UTC - in response to Message 1400744.  

If we lift an image off someones personal web site then I can clearly see
infringements of copyright. But if we lift that same image off a Google web page, via an image search, then if we are still infringing upon copyright so must Google be infringing too.
....or am I completely miss-guiding myself here?

Not necessarily. Google may (probably does) have a licensing agreement with the copyright holder for use of the image, especially where the image source is credited. Third-parties would not be covered by that license.

Google does not have any license. Google has lots and lots of lawyers and argues fair use, and so far they have won. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_10,_Inc._v._Google_Inc. and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_10,_Inc._v._Amazon.com,_Inc.

Thank you, Gary, I stand corrected (and enlightened)
Donald
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