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Message 1590359 - Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 20:42:34 UTC
Last modified: 22 Oct 2014, 20:48:11 UTC

Perspective is a wonderful thing when it arrives timely.

Seems gaming fora are not the only place this happens. And yes, here at Seti too. I do remember the BOTD. Of course being a veteran of Usenet I saw a lot. Meow. Engage filters. <plonk>

http://www.pewinternet.org/2014/10/22/online-harassment/
Harassment—from garden-variety name calling to more threatening behavior— is a common part of online life that colors the experiences of many web users. Fully 73% of adult internet users have seen someone be harassed in some way online and 40% have personally experienced it, according to a new survey by the Pew Research Center.
...
Online harassment tends to occur to different groups in different environments with different personal and emotional repercussions.

In broad trends, the data show that men are more likely to experience name-calling and embarrassment, while young women are particularly vulnerable to sexual harassment and stalking. Social media is the most common scene of both types of harassment, although men highlight online gaming and comments sections as other spaces they typically encounter harassment. Those who exclusively experience less severe forms of harassment report fewer emotional or personal impacts, while those with more severe harassment experiences often report more serious emotional tolls.
...
Overall, men are somewhat more likely than women to experience at least one of the elements of online harassment, 44% vs. 37%. In terms of specific experiences, men are more likely than women to encounter name-calling, embarrassment, and physical threats.
...
Where harassment occurs: Online harassment is much more prevalent in some online environments than in others. Asked to recall where their most recent experience took place:

66% of internet users who have experienced online harassment said their most recent incident occurred on a social networking site or app
22% mentioned the comments section of a website
16% said online gaming
16% said in a personal email account
10% mentioned a discussion site such as reddit
6% said on an online dating website or app
...
About this survey

Data in this report are drawn from the Pew Research Center’s American Trends Panel, a probability-based, nationally representative panel. This survey was conducted May 30 – June 30, 2014 and self-administered via the internet by 2,849 web users, with a margin of error of plus or minus 2.4 percentage points. For more information on the American Trends Panel, please see the Methods section at the end of this report.

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Message 1590369 - Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 20:59:01 UTC

Perspective is a wonderful thing when it arrives timely.


People harassing people on the internet are cowards, they don't even have the balls to face their 'enemy'. Nuff said
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Message 1590370 - Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 21:02:10 UTC

Hmm, I wonder if after posting this, we'll see "real" men on this thread? I've held this view all my life(& no one here or elsewhere will be able to change that view)...

Years ago, we had a series of ads run on TV where one went back in time to meet famous people...

..I'd often thought about who I'd like to meet. It would be the man who said "Women are the weaker sex".

I'd give him 2 options, I'd bump him off or he change his views to the following: - Women are far stronger & superior to men. They're not the weaker sex but the "softer" sex. :-)

& that is the reason why many men want to subjugate women!
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Message 1590374 - Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 21:10:11 UTC - in response to Message 1590369.  

Perspective is a wonderful thing when it arrives timely.


People harassing people on the internet are cowards, they don't even have the balls to face their 'enemy'. Nuff said

Very true. As is the meme never lose sleep over anything said on the internet.
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Message 1590387 - Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 21:23:45 UTC - in response to Message 1590195.  

Anther victim of gamergate: I Was Forced From My Home and Am Living In Constant Fear Because of Relentless Death Threats From Male Gamers

Of course there is always someone who will claim its a publicity stunt. I think I know exactly where to place people like that in this debate.


Es99,
Let me start by repeating my statement about 'sexism' in games. It exists. I know it exists. I have SEEN it happen, in the form of unwanted 'advances' (to use a term of politeness that is perhaps unwarranted). My own wife has been a victim of this when she started to play WoW years ago. Thankfully, these games have rather strict prohibitions on such conduct, with well defined mechanisms in place for reporting it (as well as other forms of harassment and abuse). They DO have penalties in place for such behavior, up to and including permanent banishment from the game. I know such systems are not perfect, but it is incumbent on each and every woman victimized to REPORT IT.

Another form of abuse/mistreatment of women in these games concerns the game artwork. Disproportionately large breasts on the female characters combined with rather scanty 'attire' promotes the 'objectification' of women as only sexual objects. I am against this, rather strongly.

In one of my favorite MMO games, the lead artist is female, a fact perhaps not widely known by much of the male player base. Female character models had realistic proportions, and the clothing was respectful. Certain 'members' (pun intended) of the male player-base started agitating for the female character models to feature larger breasts.

An update to the character models was announced. These male members were overjoyed. Then the update happened. These male members were dismayed. My friends in the game (both genders) thought it was extremely funny. The female character models were NOT changed. The male ones WERE. The male characters now looked like they were wearing diapers under their pants/armor. ROFL.

It got reverted after a couple of weeks, but it was over a YEAR before the 'big b**bies' crowd reared its ugly head again.

I repeat, harassment of others is WRONG, no matter the genders involved, and can possibly be a crime, depending on the jurisdiction and circumstances.


Death threats are illegal.

I remember the thread you mentioned a few posts back. I didn't approve of it, but seeing as how it got permitted for so long, I didn't see much that could be done about it here.

But an identical situation happened on another S@H-related board, one that I was the ADMIN of. A few of the posters there, perhaps inspired by the thread here, decided it would be a fun thing to post rather degrading images of scantily clad (and even down right nekkid) women. Unencumbered by the 1st Amendment considerations (free speech) that might apply here (the server was privately owned by a friend of mine, and the internet connection was through the company he owned), I immediately did NOT allow it. First I hid the offending posts, and delivered a stern warning. Then I had to start using the ban-hammer, especially after one of them got the idea to place the images not in his posts, but in his forum sig.

Yes, I did was liberally insulted over it. I got called almost every bad name in the book. Yes, I did receive threats over it. Yes, one threat was so bad (my death, as well as that of my family) that I reported it to the police in the perp's home town. But I didn't back down. The no-pics of that sort rule stuck. But, after the brouhaha died down, I did resign the position about a year later, publicly citing 'family issues'. I did not need the stress.

As to the Anita Sarkeesian incident previously discussed, I never said she was wrong on her statements about the rampant sexism in games. She isn't wrong about that.

But I still smell 'publicity stunt' on that incident. That takes NOTHING away from the validity of her point, and indeed it is a masterstroke of genius. It has provided WAY more media exposure for her cause than just giving the talk would have, not to mention being some rather strong ammo against that particular law in Utah. I am not sure of the... wisdom... of that law in Utah, but it is for the People of Utah to decide.

The one threat that USU received by email was investigated by both the local Police and the FBI. They found the additional security that USU had arranged for the talk to be sufficient to counter the level and the credibility of the threats against her speech. She then requested that USU take a measure that would have violated Utah law. When they refused to break the law, she pulled out of the talk.

As to Brianna Wu's article that you linked, a couple of observations from reading it, if you don't mind.

First, her use of the b-word, once in her first paragraph. I don't know about you, but the two women I know the best (my Wife, and my Mother) are both greatly offended by that word.

Second, in her last paragraph... well I will quote it.

Gamergate, I have one message for you so listen up: When you take your last dying breath, I want you to know this. It was an absolute pleasure knocking you on your a** [naughty word edited by me] for the fine women in this field.


I have a question for you Es99...

How is it Ok for Ms. Brianna Wu to use a term of derision towards women and deliver a death threat, when that is precisely what she is complaining about from other people?
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Message 1590417 - Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 22:54:08 UTC - in response to Message 1590387.  

Anther victim of gamergate: I Was Forced From My Home and Am Living In Constant Fear Because of Relentless Death Threats From Male Gamers

Of course there is always someone who will claim its a publicity stunt. I think I know exactly where to place people like that in this debate.


Es99,
Let me start by repeating my statement about 'sexism' in games. It exists. I know it exists. I have SEEN it happen, in the form of unwanted 'advances' (to use a term of politeness that is perhaps unwarranted). My own wife has been a victim of this when she started to play WoW years ago. Thankfully, these games have rather strict prohibitions on such conduct, with well defined mechanisms in place for reporting it (as well as other forms of harassment and abuse). They DO have penalties in place for such behavior, up to and including permanent banishment from the game. I know such systems are not perfect, but it is incumbent on each and every woman victimized to REPORT IT.

I really am not sure what you think happens when a woman reports it.

For example my complaints to seti ended up with me being banned multiple times.
Not so long ago there was some trouble on another game I play where I and the other female players were repeatedly threatened with domestic violence images and jokes. The admin did nothing.
The police when I reported the problems here did very little.
In fact, when my ex partner sent me actual texts threatening to come over and cut me up the police did nothing. I was supposed to wait until he actually turned up to do it before they would act.

So again. Tell me what reporting it does if the people you are reporting to don't see or understand the problem. The only way we can get the problem understood and heard is by standing up and being a b*tch about it. Nothing else seems to work.

Another form of abuse/mistreatment of women in these games concerns the game artwork. Disproportionately large breasts on the female characters combined with rather scanty 'attire' promotes the 'objectification' of women as only sexual objects. I am against this, rather strongly.

In one of my favorite MMO games, the lead artist is female, a fact perhaps not widely known by much of the male player base. Female character models had realistic proportions, and the clothing was respectful. Certain 'members' (pun intended) of the male player-base started agitating for the female character models to feature larger breasts.

An update to the character models was announced. These male members were overjoyed. Then the update happened. These male members were dismayed. My friends in the game (both genders) thought it was extremely funny. The female character models were NOT changed. The male ones WERE. The male characters now looked like they were wearing diapers under their pants/armor. ROFL.

It got reverted after a couple of weeks, but it was over a YEAR before the 'big b**bies' crowd reared its ugly head again.

I repeat, harassment of others is WRONG, no matter the genders involved, and can possibly be a crime, depending on the jurisdiction and circumstances.

I am aware of the issues when it comes to game design..and all these woman have done is say exactly as you have said. That is all. They pointed out what the problem is and were inundated with a hate campaign. I am quite sure I have some idea of the things your wife had to deal with. Here and on other online sites where men consider themselves dominant I have received multiple requests for nude pictures amongst other things.


Death threats are illegal.

Yes they are. However getting the police to do something about it isn't always easy and these people know that. Especially as us victims are often told that they police cannot do anything until the threats have actually been made real. Of course then it is too late.

I remember the thread you mentioned a few posts back. I didn't approve of it, but seeing as how it got permitted for so long, I didn't see much that could be done about it here.

It was sexist. Obviously so. I paid a heavy price for merely pointing it out.

But an identical situation happened on another S@H-related board, one that I was the ADMIN of. A few of the posters there, perhaps inspired by the thread here, decided it would be a fun thing to post rather degrading images of scantily clad (and even down right nekkid) women. Unencumbered by the 1st Amendment considerations (free speech) that might apply here (the server was privately owned by a friend of mine, and the internet connection was through the company he owned), I immediately did NOT allow it. First I hid the offending posts, and delivered a stern warning. Then I had to start using the ban-hammer, especially after one of them got the idea to place the images not in his posts, but in his forum sig.

Yes, I did was liberally insulted over it. I got called almost every bad name in the book. Yes, I did receive threats over it. Yes, one threat was so bad (my death, as well as that of my family) that I reported it to the police in the perp's home town. But I didn't back down. The no-pics of that sort rule stuck. But, after the brouhaha died down, I did resign the position about a year later, publicly citing 'family issues'. I did not need the stress.

Yes. I know the feeling. Threats(such as having your name and address posted all over BOINC and videos posted on you tube of your head posted on a naked body being cut up) are very stressful. I also noticed at the time the people who did this mainly picked on those they saw as being inferior such as women or homosexuals.

As to the Anita Sarkeesian incident previously discussed, I never said she was wrong on her statements about the rampant sexism in games. She isn't wrong about that.

But I still smell 'publicity stunt' on that incident. That takes NOTHING away from the validity of her point, and indeed it is a masterstroke of genius. It has provided WAY more media exposure for her cause than just giving the talk would have, not to mention being some rather strong ammo against that particular law in Utah. I am not sure of the... wisdom... of that law in Utah, but it is for the People of Utah to decide.

The things that have been done to her go way beyond this one incident. She has been terrorised for quite some time.

The one threat that USU received by email was investigated by both the local Police and the FBI. They found the additional security that USU had arranged for the talk to be sufficient to counter the level and the credibility of the threats against her speech. She then requested that USU take a measure that would have violated Utah law. When they refused to break the law, she pulled out of the talk.

You say this as if she had a choice. This talk was at a university where young people are. She did absolutely the right thing in putting them first. The laws in Utah about guns obviously need to be overhauled if there is nothing to be done to make sure they are not allowed on a campus with vulnerable people. We aren't talking about a hunting range here or someone protecting their own home. There is no credible reason why someone would and should be allowed to carry a gun on a University Campus. Especially at a time when such a credible threat has been made. Putting her own safety at risk is one thing. Putting the safety of 100s of young people at risk is something else entirely. She had no choice.

As to Brianna Wu's article that you linked, a couple of observations from reading it, if you don't mind.

First, her use of the b-word, once in her first paragraph. I don't know about you, but the two women I know the best (my Wife, and my Mother) are both greatly offended by that word.

Perhaps I should forward some of the emails sent to me over the years here. That might put things in perspective. The b-word is very mild compared to some names I have been called.

Second, in her last paragraph... well I will quote it.

Gamergate, I have one message for you so listen up: When you take your last dying breath, I want you to know this. It was an absolute pleasure knocking you on your a** [naughty word edited by me] for the fine women in this field.


I have a question for you Es99...

How is it Ok for Ms. Brianna Wu to use a term of derision towards women and deliver a death threat, when that is precisely what she is complaining about from other people?

I am not seeing the death threat. Can you point it out?
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Message 1590419 - Posted: 22 Oct 2014, 22:58:02 UTC - in response to Message 1590307.  

Anther victim of gamergate: I Was Forced From My Home and Am Living In Constant Fear Because of Relentless Death Threats From Male GamersOf course there is always someone who will claim its a publicity stunt. I think I know exactly where to place people like that in this debate.
Why in God's name do women even consider to busy themselves with people like that? Shouldn't she know better? Shouldn't all women know better? Why does she get those death threats? Why haven't I never gotten one from scum like that? I stay the Hell away from people like that!!
I am the Godzilla of bitches. I have a backbone of pure adamantium
She said it herself.... And those 'gamers' probably know she thinks that way about herself.The further you go with people like that, the further they go to be the 'winner' or rather 'dominater' Stay away from those people, you silly woman, I'd say.
Wow, Julie. I am so disappointed to hear you say this.Of course you don't get these threats as long as you remember your place and stay in the roles you are supposed to stay in.I think I've already pointed out that I've been on the receiving end of threats here, on this very forum. Are you suggesting that I should have just quit and let the boys keep their little play room? If I had I can assure you 100% that you wouldn't enjoy posting here as much as you do. I know you know some of the things that have been messaged to the ladies her on seti by a minority of guys. Its pretty unpleasant and disgusting. Well it wasn't so long ago that those things were posted publicly to any ladies that dared post here on seti. It wasn't so long ago that any lady who dared complain was told to "stay away from these people, you silly woman". Its thanks to people like me that you don't have to put up with that crap here on seti any more.You're welcome.Women should be allowed to design and make video games without getting death threats. That you somehow think she should have quit her job and stayed quiet to avoid the threats is quite shameful.Women should be allowed to post safely on a science based computing forum such as seti without suffering the same fate.
I was a SQUATTER Esmé, I roamed the street at night all alone with my dog, NOBODY bothered me. I even slept on the streets of Paris, alone. I never had to block ANYONE here at Seti and I don't think I have to thank you for that Es, to be honest. I've been here since 2009, I've seen things happen and change here, I'm not some dumb girl Esmé. The woman in the article just attracts people like that is what I think.
RIGHT. You've been here since 2009 which is when things finally started to change. I am so glad that me "attracting people like that" by speaking out helped make your experience on seti so much better that mine was.You can think what you want, Julie, and you can say what you want, and I bet you feel pretty safe right now and don't assume that someone is going to track down where you live and threaten your family because you are saying what you think. Which is what happened here on a regular basis before 2009.

So again. You're welcome. I am so glad you haven't had to block anyone on seti. I am so glad that you didn't have to go through what I did. I am so glad that what I went through wasn't for nothing.

I hope anyone who has daughters is supporting this woman 100% for trying to make life better for the next generation. I have a niece right now at university training to go into this field and I am genuinely worried for her. I am grateful to any woman who has the guts to stand up to this disgusting behaviour. We should be applauding her, not judging her.



I don't think you quite well understood my post Es. I've been in the lion's hole (Dutch saying) I've met the scum, but really, the SCUM of the earth, in REAL life, LIVE as they say on TV. I've seen people with guns and knives, do you think they came to me and threaten me, nope... And I was quite the figure in the squat scene, believe me. If I'd support this woman in front of Lisa, I would admit women are weak, and can't stand up against men, well, good news, YES, WE CAN! Mentally AND physically, but the mental part is our biggest asset.

cfr. the title of the article, very eye-catching, something Lisa would see instantly: I was forced... Nobody should force you to do anything girl! I'd say to her:)

I too have come across my fair share of scum in real life. That is a different sort of problem than the one that comes from people being about to hide anonymously behind a screen name.

I've been threatened to my face and threatened by unknown people on the internet. At least you know who to hold accountable when they are standing in right in front of you. Both types of behaviour are disgusting, but the effects of online harassment are pretty nasty.
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Message 1590478 - Posted: 23 Oct 2014, 0:58:53 UTC - in response to Message 1590417.  

The b-word is very mild compared to some names I have been called.


Seriously???

How the heck are boys and men to know that it is wrong to call women that word, if they keep seeing women call themselves that???

If a word is wrong to say in some circumstances, it is wrong to say in ALL circumstances.

I am not seeing the death threat. Can you point it out?


My quote of the last paragraph of her article... The ENTIRE last paragraph is a death threat.

Let me paraphrase it for you...

As you are dying, know this... It was an absolute pleasure attacking you.


Did that help you to see the death threat that Ms. Brianna Wu wrote??

If you can't see it, it has to be that you don't WANT to see it.

But enough about Ms. Wu and Ms. Sarkeesian.

The mistreatment of women. Sadly, yes it exists.

Also, sadly it is not confined to 'games'.

It is a basic component of our society.

Witness popular entertainment. Many songs of so-called rap music glorified violence against women.

TV, movies, and music videos all too frequently treat women as sex objects, with the women's cooperation.

Magazines... urrgh... (and no, i'm not talking about the porno ones)

It has been a long time since I have seen a magazine about subjects such as cars or tractors without a woman in a bikini and high-heels sprawled out over the item on the cover.

There is one mantra repeated over and over from Hollywood to Madison Ave...

"Sex Sells!".

Women need to stop cooperating in their own objectification.

One interesting article I read yesterday:

Annie Lennox: 'Twerking Is Not Feminism'

She has a point.

Yes, all of this does NOT excuse the boys/men from acting the way they do. They are still guilty. But then, they were RAISED that way.

Think about it.

@ everyone
Oh, earlier in the thread I claimed that women were the majority of gamers, questioned on it, and had to retract when I was unable to find support.

Well, a few minutes ago, my wife found the supporting information.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/18/52-percent-people-playing-games-women-industry-doesnt-know

Women make up 52% of gamers. A majority. They want games to not be so sexist. As my wife just said, they should vote with their wallets.
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Message 1590561 - Posted: 23 Oct 2014, 5:45:44 UTC

Women make up 52% of gamers. A majority.


Yeah, When I'm Not Reading On The Beach, I Like Playing JigZone. I Love them saws. I never beat dA Average Time. Sigh.

I'm The B-Word. BABE. HOT BABE!

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May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1590568 - Posted: 23 Oct 2014, 6:07:36 UTC - in response to Message 1590419.  
Last modified: 23 Oct 2014, 6:10:12 UTC

Anther victim of gamergate: I Was Forced From My Home and Am Living In Constant Fear Because of Relentless Death Threats From Male GamersOf course there is always someone who will claim its a publicity stunt. I think I know exactly where to place people like that in this debate.
Why in God's name do women even consider to busy themselves with people like that? Shouldn't she know better? Shouldn't all women know better? Why does she get those death threats? Why haven't I never gotten one from scum like that? I stay the Hell away from people like that!!
I am the Godzilla of bitches. I have a backbone of pure adamantium
She said it herself.... And those 'gamers' probably know she thinks that way about herself.The further you go with people like that, the further they go to be the 'winner' or rather 'dominater' Stay away from those people, you silly woman, I'd say.
Wow, Julie. I am so disappointed to hear you say this.Of course you don't get these threats as long as you remember your place and stay in the roles you are supposed to stay in.I think I've already pointed out that I've been on the receiving end of threats here, on this very forum. Are you suggesting that I should have just quit and let the boys keep their little play room? If I had I can assure you 100% that you wouldn't enjoy posting here as much as you do. I know you know some of the things that have been messaged to the ladies her on seti by a minority of guys. Its pretty unpleasant and disgusting. Well it wasn't so long ago that those things were posted publicly to any ladies that dared post here on seti. It wasn't so long ago that any lady who dared complain was told to "stay away from these people, you silly woman". Its thanks to people like me that you don't have to put up with that crap here on seti any more.You're welcome.Women should be allowed to design and make video games without getting death threats. That you somehow think she should have quit her job and stayed quiet to avoid the threats is quite shameful.Women should be allowed to post safely on a science based computing forum such as seti without suffering the same fate.
I was a SQUATTER Esmé, I roamed the street at night all alone with my dog, NOBODY bothered me. I even slept on the streets of Paris, alone. I never had to block ANYONE here at Seti and I don't think I have to thank you for that Es, to be honest. I've been here since 2009, I've seen things happen and change here, I'm not some dumb girl Esmé. The woman in the article just attracts people like that is what I think.
RIGHT. You've been here since 2009 which is when things finally started to change. I am so glad that me "attracting people like that" by speaking out helped make your experience on seti so much better that mine was.You can think what you want, Julie, and you can say what you want, and I bet you feel pretty safe right now and don't assume that someone is going to track down where you live and threaten your family because you are saying what you think. Which is what happened here on a regular basis before 2009.

So again. You're welcome. I am so glad you haven't had to block anyone on seti. I am so glad that you didn't have to go through what I did. I am so glad that what I went through wasn't for nothing.

I hope anyone who has daughters is supporting this woman 100% for trying to make life better for the next generation. I have a niece right now at university training to go into this field and I am genuinely worried for her. I am grateful to any woman who has the guts to stand up to this disgusting behaviour. We should be applauding her, not judging her.



I don't think you quite well understood my post Es. I've been in the lion's hole (Dutch saying) I've met the scum, but really, the SCUM of the earth, in REAL life, LIVE as they say on TV. I've seen people with guns and knives, do you think they came to me and threaten me, nope... And I was quite the figure in the squat scene, believe me. If I'd support this woman in front of Lisa, I would admit women are weak, and can't stand up against men, well, good news, YES, WE CAN! Mentally AND physically, but the mental part is our biggest asset.

cfr. the title of the article, very eye-catching, something Lisa would see instantly: I was forced... Nobody should force you to do anything girl! I'd say to her:)

I too have come across my fair share of scum in real life. That is a different sort of problem than the one that comes from people being about to hide anonymously behind a screen name.

I've been threatened to my face and threatened by unknown people on the internet. At least you know who to hold accountable when they are standing in right in front of you. Both types of behaviour are disgusting, but the effects of online harassment are pretty nasty.


Then you should know what I'm talking about Es, you and I aren't that different. Oh, btw, really strange the troubles here stopped around 2009, the time when I joined, I've been pondering over that.....
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Message 1590642 - Posted: 23 Oct 2014, 10:29:05 UTC

really strange the troubles here stopped around 2009, the time when I joined, I've been pondering over that.....


Iirc, I became a Mod in 2010.
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Message 1590648 - Posted: 23 Oct 2014, 10:44:20 UTC

@MajorKong. Thats not a death threat. A death threat is a specific threat made against a specific individual. She is talking about destroying Gamergate, which is an online movement. Its not a death threat if she is talking about whenever some movement dies out because it no longer has popular support.

Also, what Brianna Wu does is co-opt the word 'B**ch'. You know, like how homosexuals have co-opted the word gay or black people the N-word. By co-opting a word like that, you at the one time take it away from people who use it as an insult, while at the same time give it your own positive spin, meaning that the word now works in your favor. So no, bad words are not always bad words no matter the situation.
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Message 1590820 - Posted: 23 Oct 2014, 17:17:01 UTC

Is there really some sort of innate 'cultural' problem worldwide and including in the cyberworld all against women or of targeting women for 'exploitation'?


Yet again:

Nigeria's Boko Haram 'abducts more women and girls'

Dozens of women and girls from two villages in Nigeria's north-eastern Adamawa state have been abducted by suspected militants...


All from a misogynist set of religions?...


All in our only one world,
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Message 1590862 - Posted: 23 Oct 2014, 18:10:59 UTC - in response to Message 1590820.  

All from a misogynist set of religions?...

Thought it was all one religion, the God of Abraham religion. This "all good" God sure seems to have some not so good. Should make you wonder.
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Message 1590946 - Posted: 23 Oct 2014, 20:23:36 UTC

Makes one wonder just what was in his mind after serving 16 years as a police officer...

Copper avoids jail

...he's lucky I'm not his girlfriend's brother. He would have received a lovely sentence...

...12 to 18 months in a hospital bed!
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Message 1590951 - Posted: 23 Oct 2014, 20:30:48 UTC - in response to Message 1590862.  

All from a misogynist set of religions?...

Thought it was all one religion, the God of Abraham religion. This "all good" God sure seems to have some not so good. Should make you wonder.



+1 but with seems to replaced with could, the glass is half full.
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Message 1590966 - Posted: 23 Oct 2014, 20:51:44 UTC - in response to Message 1590951.  

All from a misogynist set of religions?...

Thought it was all one religion, the God of Abraham religion. This "all good" God sure seems to have some not so good. Should make you wonder.



+1 but with seems to replaced with could, the glass is half full.

or half empty :-)
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Message 1591455 - Posted: 24 Oct 2014, 17:11:39 UTC

Wallmart is not going to like this

Wonder how long before the MCP's stick their oar in with feeble excuses?
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Message 1591517 - Posted: 24 Oct 2014, 20:07:08 UTC - in response to Message 1591455.  

Wallmart is not going to like this

Wonder how long before the MCP's stick their oar in with feeble excuses?


Hmm...

Interesting.

From reading the article, there seems to be two separate issues at work here (pun not intended).


1. difference in pay between the genders working at the SAME job.

This is wrong and needs to be addressed.

2. difference in pay between different jobs for the same company.

This is definitely a grey area.

One Asda store worker I spoke to said that the work was the same whether you were in the shop or in the warehouse - packing and unpacking pallets of clothes and food and putting stock on shelves, often through the night.

She said she should be paid the same as the men working in the warehouse.


Now I don't know much about how employment contracts are structured in the UK, but here in the USA the labor unions tend to fix those pay scales in GREAT detail (across different jobs) in the contracts they negotiate.

Perhaps the employees at ASDA in the UK need to take a long look at their labor union for redress of this grievance.

Their union:



GMB Southern: Cooper House, 205 Hook Road, Chessington, Surrey KT9 1EA - Telephone: 020 8397 8881




http://www.gmb-southern.org.uk/work-and-campaigns/your-work/asda-2/
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Message 1591534 - Posted: 24 Oct 2014, 20:46:23 UTC - in response to Message 1591531.  

But we need to be clear on this. Is this a policy of the British Management, or imposed upon them by the American owners?


Why?

Either way, the issue remains the same!
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