But what about the incident in Utah (other than, of course, whatshisnertz the perp) is misogynist? The police enforcing the law? The law itself?

Well the incident itself is misogynistic. Someone is denied her free speech through the threat of force simply because she is a women who talks about feminism and female representation in the game.

And Anita Sarkeesian has been threatened before for her views on female representation in games.

In any case, this is probably related to Gamergate which is pretty much the misogynistic group of gamers against the more progressive games media and gamers. And yes, there are quite a few misogynists within gaming culture.

Well you get my point, at least.

---

Reality Internet Personality

...

But then, I am cynical enough to have suspicions that she arranged the threat, just for the publicity.

Ahhh..you are saying she was asking for it and brought it on herself.

Now where have we heard that argument before?

---

Reality Internet Personality

...

But then, I am cynical enough to have suspicions that she arranged the threat, just for the publicity.

Ahhh..you are saying she was asking for it and brought it on herself.

Now where have we heard that argument before?

NO. I am saying that, since the publicity of the threat has done SO much to publicize her cause (way more that just giving the speech would have), there is at least the POSSIBILITY that she directly requested someone to send her the threat, or paid someone to do so, or sent it herself.

Its not really about her gender at this point, but her (potential or actual) profit from the incident.

...

But then, I am cynical enough to have suspicions that she arranged the threat, just for the publicity.

Ahhh..you are saying she was asking for it and brought it on herself.

Now where have we heard that argument before?

NO. I am saying that, since the publicity of the threat has done SO much to publicize her cause (way more that just giving the speech would have), there is at least the POSSIBILITY that she directly requested someone to send her the threat, or paid someone to do so, or sent it herself.

Its not really about her gender at this point, but her (potential or actual) profit from the incident.

The question then is was this particular "threat" reported to the police. If so and it was a fake threat, then the act of reporting it was a criminal offense. If it wasn't reported, then it is reasonable to assume that it was a fake threat or a publicity stunt, in which case the venue should bring civil charges of fraud against the speaker for never intending on making the speech.

Of course there is the possibility that the threat was real but the speaker knew threats would be made and set the entire incident up as a publicity stunt.

BTW no one prevented her from speaking. Only her own irrational fears of lawful background checked persons -- did I just describe police officers?! -- prevented her. Her choice.

---

...

But then, I am cynical enough to have suspicions that she arranged the threat, just for the publicity.

Ahhh..you are saying she was asking for it and brought it on herself.

Now where have we heard that argument before?

NO. I am saying that, since the publicity of the threat has done SO much to publicize her cause (way more that just giving the speech would have), there is at least the POSSIBILITY that she directly requested someone to send her the threat, or paid someone to do so, or sent it herself.

Its not really about her gender at this point, but her (potential or actual) profit from the incident.

The question then is was this particular "threat" reported to the police. If so and it was a fake threat, then the act of reporting it was a criminal offense. If it wasn't reported, then it is reasonable to assume that it was a fake threat or a publicity stunt, in which case the venue should bring civil charges of fraud against the speaker for never intending on making the speech.

Of course there is the possibility that the threat was real but the speaker knew threats would be made and set the entire incident up as a publicity stunt.

BTW no one prevented her from speaking. Only her own irrational fears of lawful background checked persons -- did I just describe police officers?! -- prevented her. Her choice.

Irrational fear?
Sure..its not like someone hasn't shot up a university before because they hate women.

http://www.cbc.ca/archives/categories/society/crime-justice/the-montreal-massacre/gunman-massacres-14-women.html

Huh, how can people be so irrational to be afraid of that?

Gary, you are so damn offensive sometimes it just boggles my mind.

---

Reality Internet Personality

Don't give me that CROCK about her 'free speech' was denied. She exercised her Free Speech rights QUITE effectively when she announced she was not going to give her talk because of the threat. Her backing out on the talk probably did MORE to advance her cause than giving her talk would have.

Are you kidding me? So I guess then that the people in China and Russia also have free speech when openly criticizing their governments results in jail time. Its just their 'irrational fear' for getting arrested and thrown in jail that prevents them from speaking. Or perhaps they are just faking living under an authoritarian regime for publicity for their cause.

Be honest here, if you are threatened with rape, death and then some more rape if you give a lecture about something, then your free speech is infringed. The threat of brutal violence forces you to be silent. Thats how it works in repressive authoritarian regimes, and thats how its here.

Women are the majority in gaming culture.

No they are not. They represent just slightly less than 50% of the people that play game, and they are sorely underrepresented when it comes to the actual developers within the games industry, as well as the gaming press. And within the games itself its even worse.

Now that said...

The perp that made the threat needs to be located, arrested, and put on trial.

I don't know the Utah law, but I presume it is somewhat similar to Texas law on the subject.

In Texas, 'making a terroristic threat' is a crime.

On this we agree.

But then, I am cynical enough to have suspicions that she arranged the threat, just for the publicity.

Why is everyone giving her such a hard time? The woman has been repeatedly threatened with some of the most horrible things imaginable, from getting raped to death, but everytime it happens, the first response I hear is that 'shes faking it for attention'. If this would have happened to a guy no one would even dare say such a thing.

Don't give me that CROCK about her 'free speech' was denied. She exercised her Free Speech rights QUITE effectively when she announced she was not going to give her talk because of the threat. Her backing out on the talk probably did MORE to advance her cause than giving her talk would have.

Are you kidding me? So I guess then that the people in China and Russia also have free speech when openly criticizing their governments results in jail time.

Be honest here, if you are threatened with rape, death and then some more rape if you give a lecture about something, then your free speech is infringed. The threat of brutal violence forces you to be silent. Thats how it works in repressive authoritarian regimes, and thats how its here.

Women are the majority in gaming culture.

No they are not. They represent just slightly less than 50% of the people that play game, and they are sorely underrepresented when it comes to the actual developers within the games industry, as well as the gaming press. And within the games itself its even worse.

Now that said...

The perp that made the threat needs to be located, arrested, and put on trial.

I don't know the Utah law, but I presume it is somewhat similar to Texas law on the subject.

In Texas, 'making a terroristic threat' is a crime.

On this we agree.

But then, I am cynical enough to have suspicions that she arranged the threat, just for the publicity.

Why is everyone giving her such a hard time? The woman has been repeatedly threatened with some of the most horrible things imaginable, from getting raped to death, but everytime it happens, the first response I hear is that 'shes faking it for attention'. If this would have happened to a guy no one would even dare say such a thing.

"the comments about any article about feminism justify feminism" - Lewis' Law

---

Reality Internet Personality

"the comments about any article about feminism justify feminism" - Lewis' Law

Thoroughly agreed!

+1

"the comments about any article about feminism justify feminism" - Lewis' Law

Anyone taking an absolute position is absolutely wrong.

---

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58528113-78/sarkeesian-threats-threat-usu.html.csp

A nationally known feminist media critic said Wednesday that "it would be irresponsible" to give a lecture amidst mass shooting threats at Utah State University, knowing that police would not screen for weapons at the door.

In a phone interview from San Francisco, Anita Sarkeesian said she canceled Wednesday’s lecture not because of three death threats — one of which promised "the deadliest school shooting in American history" — but because firearms would be allowed in spite of the threats.

"That was it for me," said Sarkeesian, who has kept multiple speaking engagements in the face of death threats, including one last week at Geek Girl Con in Seattle. "If they allowed weapons into the auditorium, that was too big a risk."

She also pledged never to speak at a Utah school until firearms are prohibited on Utah’s campuses and called for other lecturers to join her in boycotting the state.
.
.
.
USU officials also pointed to a 2004 state law preventing public universities from restricting guns.
.
.
.

The law in question:

http://le.utah.gov/~code/TITLE53/htm/53_05a010200.htm

Title 53

Public Safety Code
Chapter 5a

Firearm Laws
Section 102

Uniform firearm laws.


53-5a-102. Uniform firearm laws.

(1) The individual right to keep and bear arms being a constitutionally protected right under Article I, Section 6 of the Utah Constitution, the Legislature finds the need to provide uniform civil and criminal firearm laws throughout the state.

(2) Except as specifically provided by state law, a local authority or state entity may not:

(a) prohibit an individual from owning, possessing, purchasing, selling, transferring, transporting, or keeping a firearm at the individual's place of residence, property, business, or in any vehicle lawfully in the individual's possession or lawfully under the individual's control; or

(b) require an individual to have a permit or license to purchase, own, possess, transport, or keep a firearm.

(3) In conjunction with Title 76, Chapter 10, Part 5, Weapons, this section is uniformly applicable throughout this state and in all its political subdivisions and municipalities.

(4) All authority to regulate firearms is reserved to the state except where the Legislature specifically delegates responsibility to local authorities or state entities.

(5) Unless specifically authorized by the Legislature by statute, a local authority or state entity may not enact, establish, or enforce any ordinance, regulation, rule, or policy pertaining to firearms that in any way inhibits or restricts the possession or use of firearms on either public or private property.

(6) As used in this section:

(a) "firearm" has the same meaning as defined in Section 76-10-501; and

(b) "local authority or state entity" includes public school districts, public schools, and state institutions of higher education.

(7) Nothing in this section restricts or expands private property rights.

Amended by Chapter 278, 2013 General Session

So...

1. USU could not, by Utah State law, stop holders of valid concealed handgun permits from entering the venue with their handguns. Wise or not is not for me to say... But it IS the law in Utah.

2. Anita Sarkeesian said the only reason she backed out of the USU talk was #1... even though EXTRA police had been assigned to the event AND that USU has a good record of hosting speakers that have had threats against them.

3. Anita Sarkeesian did NOT back out of other speaking events in the face of death threats.

4. There are several websites that specialize in publishing police reports from various high-profile cases. Prominent among them is 'The Smoking Gun'. I have searched there as well as elsewhere on the 'net, and there is no record of a police report being filed on this threat nor even any clue as to WHICH police department she reported it to (as she claims she reported it).

5. Said threat(s) were received via Twitter. It should be relatively easy to trace who sent them, or at least from what part of the world they were sent.

6. Making a false report to police is a crime and subjects the person making the report to jail time.

Until such time as a valid police report on this incident is published and verified, my statement stands...

There IS a possibility that this is a publicity stunt.

As to my statement about women being the majority of gamers, sorry I was wrong. When I read the percentages, I read it wrong and transposed the 48% and the 52%. I stand corrected.

I do not deny that there is some misogyny in gaming culture. I have SEEN it. But it is easily dealt with. Either /ignore <playername> or, if it is bad enough /abuse <playername> complaint text.

I enjoy playing mmorpgs with women players. In one of my favorites, both of the guilds I was in had female guildmasters... and yes, they were actual women and not G.I.R.L.s... (Guys In Real Life). TS3 voice chat and all...

Most of those players I have seen treat women players badly have been either pre-teen jerks who likely still think girls have cooties, or they have been embolden by the relative anonymity and display a similar maturity level. I have noticed that many of the same ones that abuse women also abuse n00bs.

I have already commented about issues like the game artwork objectifying women.

I do not disagree with the statement that misogyny in computer gaming is a problem, though I do think it is not as prevalent as some people think.

I DO maintain that the Anita Sarkeesian/USU incident just doesn't ring totally true.

"the comments about any article about feminism justify feminism" - Lewis' Law

Anyone taking an absolute position is absolutely wrong.

Anyone who thinks that making death threats against a woman because she is giving a talk about the way women are represented in video games isn't misogyny is absolutely wrong.

Luckily everyone seems to have happily ignored that point, one suspects quite wilfully.

---

Reality Internet Personality

"the comments about any article about feminism justify feminism" - Lewis' Law

Anyone taking an absolute position is absolutely wrong.

Anyone who thinks that making death threats against a woman because she is giving a talk about the way women are represented in video games isn't misogyny is absolutely wrong.

Luckily everyone seems to have happily ignored that point, one suspects quite wilfully.

Making a death threat against someone is WRONG, no matter what the gender(s) involved.

I question the truthfulness of her claim that death threats against her in this case were made. All we have is her word that they were.

Post a link to the police report where she REPORTED said threats to the police, and I will change my position.

Until then, didn't happen. Publicity stunt.

Yes, I know that women playing computer games do suffer verbal abuse from jerks from time to time. When I see it happen while playing MMORPGs, I usually just enter the offending player on my ignore list. A time or two, it was so dreadfully bad that I reported it to the game staff. They usually take a VERY dim view of it, and frequently it is about the easiest way to get 'permabanned' from the game.

These same people, however, in addition to verbally abusing women, do so to other men as well. Especially if the man is a n00b (new to the game, without a clear understanding of how to play it yet).

Do NOT assume that my objection to that woman's case is misogyny. It isn't.
Your assumption about my statements can be interpreted as misandry, which is just as much 'hate-speech' as misogyny.

"the comments about any article about feminism justify feminism" - Lewis' Law

Anyone taking an absolute position is absolutely wrong.

Anyone who thinks that making death threats against a woman because she is giving a talk about the way women are represented in video games isn't misogyny is absolutely wrong.

Luckily everyone seems to have happily ignored that point, one suspects quite wilfully.

Making a death threat against someone is WRONG, no matter what the gender(s) involved.

I question the truthfulness of her claim that death threats against her in this case were made. All we have is her word that they were.

Post a link to the police report where she REPORTED said threats to the police, and I will change my position.

Until then, didn't happen. Publicity stunt.

Yes, I know that women playing computer games do suffer verbal abuse from jerks from time to time. When I see it happen while playing MMORPGs, I usually just enter the offending player on my ignore list. A time or two, it was so dreadfully bad that I reported it to the game staff. They usually take a VERY dim view of it, and frequently it is about the easiest way to get 'permabanned' from the game.

These same people, however, in addition to verbally abusing women, do so to other men as well. Especially if the man is a n00b (new to the game, without a clear understanding of how to play it yet).

Do NOT assume that my objection to that woman's case is misogyny. It isn't.
Your assumption about my statements can be interpreted as misandry, which is just as much 'hate-speech' as misogyny.

The day I try to shut you up with tactics that have a history of being used to shut up men in a most negative way is the day you can call misandry.

Your claims that the woman is only doing it for attention can be filed with many other sexist methods of silencing women who complain about their treatment. Just because you feel so obliviously entitled to use those methods doesn't make them less sexist. It just proves how embedded such behaviour is in the culture.

---

Reality Internet Personality

"the comments about any article about feminism justify feminism" - Lewis' Law

Anyone taking an absolute position is absolutely wrong.

Anyone who thinks that making death threats against a woman because she is giving a talk about the way women are represented in video games isn't misogyny is absolutely wrong.

You are assuming there was a threat, several of us smell a fifthly publicity stunt.

---

"the comments about any article about feminism justify feminism" - Lewis' Law

Anyone taking an absolute position is absolutely wrong.

Anyone who thinks that making death threats against a woman because she is giving a talk about the way women are represented in video games isn't misogyny is absolutely wrong.

You are assuming there was a threat, several of us smell a fifthly publicity stunt.

I've been following the work of this woman long enough to know that what you think reflects very poorly on you right now.

---

Reality Internet Personality

"the comments about any article about feminism justify feminism" - Lewis' Law

Anyone taking an absolute position is absolutely wrong.

Anyone who thinks that making death threats against a woman because she is giving a talk about the way women are represented in video games isn't misogyny is absolutely wrong.

You are assuming there was a threat, several of us smell a fifthly publicity stunt.

I've been following the work of this woman long enough to know that what you think reflects very poorly on you right now.

Why does she demand security in excess of that given to the Governor of the state?
http://www.standard.net/Education/2014/10/15/Utahns-respond-to-threat-at-Utah-State-University.html wrote:

“When we have high profile government officials ... or when we have the governor or lieutenant governor, or have highly controversial speakers — Weber State does take extra security measures, and assess the risks, but those have never included metal detectors or physical search to enter a venue,” Hess said.

I still smell a publicity stunt.

---

These same people, however, in addition to verbally abusing women, do so to other men as well. Especially if the man is a n00b (new to the game, without a clear understanding of how to play it yet).

No, thats the point, they don't do it to men, they do it to n00bs. That is a specific player group which consists of both genders. The thing is, once those n00bs are no longer n00bs the abuse stops, while if the player is a women, the abuse continues regardless of her skill level.

On top of that, the sort of abuse n00bs and women receive is different. While n00bs are just insulted for their perceived ineptitude to play the game 'correctly' women suffer from a much more vicious kind of abuse. They get constantly asked to show their boobs, have sex with other players, get to enjoy the tales of what said players would do them if they met in real life (all of it sexual) and if the women does not respond nicely enough or ends up owning the other player because shes better at the game, they can expect an inbox filled with rape and death threats.

Now I don't approve of abusive behavior by players towards other players, I think its toxic for the community, I have to admit that the kind of abuse most n00bs receive is comparatively benign compared to the kind of abuse women receive.

These same people, however, in addition to verbally abusing women, do so to other men as well. Especially if the man is a n00b (new to the game, without a clear understanding of how to play it yet).

No, thats the point, they don't do it to men, they do it to n00bs. That is a specific player group which consists of both genders. The thing is, once those n00bs are no longer n00bs the abuse stops, while if the player is a women, the abuse continues regardless of her skill level.

On top of that, the sort of abuse n00bs and women receive is different. While n00bs are just insulted for their perceived ineptitude to play the game 'correctly' women suffer from a much more vicious kind of abuse. They get constantly asked to show their boobs, have sex with other players, get to enjoy the tales of what said players would do them if they met in real life (all of it sexual) and if the women does not respond nicely enough or ends up owning the other player because shes better at the game, they can expect an inbox filled with rape and death threats.

Now I don't approve of abusive behavior by players towards other players, I think its toxic for the community, I have to admit that the kind of abuse most n00bs receive is comparatively benign compared to the kind of abuse women receive.

Having been on the receiving end of abuse on gaming sites I can vouch for this. A lot of women prefer to keep their gender anonymous on gaming sites for obvious reasons. I often do. Unless you point out otherwise it is assumed you are male, much like the seti boards where the default gender is also male. I suspect (and actually know) that there are more female posters here than a lot of you realise. They have good reason for wanting to keep quiet about it.

Even here on seti I was the victim of a similar hate campaign as Anita Sarkeesian was when she started making her videos. What happened to her was way worse (quite probably because the number of people involved was larger, not because the vitriol was any less), but there were startling similarities. The hate campaign started for me when I pointed out that a long running thread was actually very sexist. That is all I did, point it out. I took no further action except voice an opinion. That was enough to start a long running hate campaign that got so out of hand that I did report it to the police.

So I totally believe her as this latest event is just the latest thing that has happened to her.

BTW. No one believed me either for a long time. Which is also typical of how woman who complain about these things are treated. So I find Gary's attitude depressing, but not surprising.

Fortunately because of my persistence and the persistence of others, the ethos of the seti forums has changed and is no longer the misogynistic haven it used to be. There is an admin in place who understands these issues and I can post my opinion without getting abusive emails and posts and I don't have to worry that there will be threats made against me and my family just because I dare to voice an opinion on a message board that people don't agree with.

So do I think the threats where genuine against Anita Sarkeesian? Absolutely. 100%

If it can happen here on seti why on earth is it so implausible that it can't happen on a larger scale elsewhere?

---

Reality Internet Personality

Sorry, I simply have to chime in here.

Even here on seti I was the victim of a similar hate campaign as Anita Sarkeesian was when she started making her videos. What happened to her was way worse (quite probably because the number of people involved was larger, not because the vitriol was any less), but there were startling similarities. The hate campaign started for me when I pointed out that a long running thread was actually very sexist. That is all I did, point it out. I took no further action except voice an opinion. That was enough to start a long running hate campaign that got so out of hand that I did report it to the police.

You and I know the Seti thread you are talking about, and the person behind it. And I also agreed that the thread was wrong, but from an additional angle, that it was also underhand because of the people being highlighted not giving their prior permission. It was quite illuminating to hear from that person that they had full "permission" to run that thread, and I could "procreate elsewhere" if I didn't like it.

BTW. No one believed me either for a long time. Which is also typical of how woman who complain about these things are treated. So I find Gary's attitude depressing, but not surprising.

I was one of your most loyal supporters at the time, and fought at your side when the abhorrent abuse started, and backed you 100% reporting it to the police, who did indeed take action, as we know. But don't forget the accomplice that ditched them big time when the wotsit hit the fan.

Fortunately because of my persistence and the persistence of others, the ethos of the seti forums has changed and is no longer the misogynistic haven it used to be. There is an admin in place who understands these issues and I can post my opinion without getting abusive emails and posts and I don't have to worry that there will be threats made against me and my family just because I dare to voice an opinion on a message board that people don't agree with.

Exactly as it should be, and should have been in the first place. But it has to be said that on-line presence is a mainly male based preserve, whether we like it or not. It is changing, but slowly, and will always be an uphill struggle. But a start has been made here at Seti, and we can show the way forward.

+1

---

rOZZ
Music
Pictures

Sorry, I simply have to chime in here.

Even here on seti I was the victim of a similar hate campaign as Anita Sarkeesian was when she started making her videos. What happened to her was way worse (quite probably because the number of people involved was larger, not because the vitriol was any less), but there were startling similarities. The hate campaign started for me when I pointed out that a long running thread was actually very sexist. That is all I did, point it out. I took no further action except voice an opinion. That was enough to start a long running hate campaign that got so out of hand that I did report it to the police.

You and I know the Seti thread you are talking about, and the person behind it. And I also agreed that the thread was wrong, but from an additional angle, that it was also underhand because of the people being highlighted not giving their prior permission. It was quite illuminating to hear from that person that they had full "permission" to run that thread, and I could "procreate elsewhere" if I didn't like it.

BTW. No one believed me either for a long time. Which is also typical of how woman who complain about these things are treated. So I find Gary's attitude depressing, but not surprising.

I was one of your most loyal supporters at the time, and fought at your side when the abhorrent abuse started, and backed you 100% reporting it to the police, who did indeed take action, as we know. But don't forget the accomplice that ditched them big time when the wotsit hit the fan.

Fortunately because of my persistence and the persistence of others, the ethos of the seti forums has changed and is no longer the misogynistic haven it used to be. There is an admin in place who understands these issues and I can post my opinion without getting abusive emails and posts and I don't have to worry that there will be threats made against me and my family just because I dare to voice an opinion on a message board that people don't agree with.

Exactly as it should be, and should have been in the first place. But it has to be said that on-line presence is a mainly male based preserve, whether we like it or not. It is changing, but slowly, and will always be an uphill struggle. But a start has been made here at Seti, and we can show the way forward.

I don't want to go into specifics.

What I will point out is that although there were a couple of ring leaders, a lot of other people joined it and thought it was ok.

The admin at the time did not take it seriously because they did not understand the nature of what was going on. We can learn from Anita Sarkeesian. This behaviour is rife and is a sign of the entitlement that certain people feel towards their dominant position.

It is pervasive and a couple of posters here in this thread are so unexamined in their attitude that they can't see that they are exhibiting the same sort of attitudes.

How easy it is to claim "she did it as a publicity stunt" rather than to examine the horrific and systemic nature of this abuse.

---

Reality Internet Personality