Firearms. Who or what is dangerous?

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Message 1334491 - Posted: 4 Feb 2013, 2:06:30 UTC

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Message 1334492 - Posted: 4 Feb 2013, 2:10:29 UTC

None of the 4 of us who have posted here have said anything doubting whether the story is genuine.
It is something else that I questioned.
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Message 1334500 - Posted: 4 Feb 2013, 4:09:26 UTC - in response to Message 1334492.  

None of the 4 of us who have posted here have said anything doubting whether the story is genuine.
It is something else that I questioned.

Yes, and I remember a fool posting that here too.

I would expect more people to get shot at a range than any other location. Mind you most of the time it is unintentional.

In any case the alleged shooter is an alleged mental case. Another failure of feel good must re-integrate policy.

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Message 1334502 - Posted: 4 Feb 2013, 4:26:50 UTC - in response to Message 1334500.  

None of the 4 of us who have posted here have said anything doubting whether the story is genuine.
It is something else that I questioned.

Yes, and I remember a fool posting that here too.

I would expect more people to get shot at a range than any other location. Mind you most of the time it is unintentional.

In any case the alleged shooter is an alleged mental case. Another failure of feel good must re-integrate policy.

I don't see why you are so scathing of policies that are designed to recognise someone's human rights, even if they are mentally ill. Are the options for you really between locking up sick people, or letting them run riot with guns? how about simply making sure that they can't get hold of guns.
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Message 1334504 - Posted: 4 Feb 2013, 4:34:19 UTC - in response to Message 1334502.  

None of the 4 of us who have posted here have said anything doubting whether the story is genuine.
It is something else that I questioned.

Yes, and I remember a fool posting that here too.

I would expect more people to get shot at a range than any other location. Mind you most of the time it is unintentional.

In any case the alleged shooter is an alleged mental case. Another failure of feel good must re-integrate policy.

I don't see why you are so scathing of policies that are designed to recognise someone's human rights, even if they are mentally ill. Are the options for you really between locking up sick people, or letting them run riot with guns? how about simply making sure that they can't get hold of guns.

Or axes, machetes, knives, Molotov cocktails, ANFO, ...


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Message 1334514 - Posted: 4 Feb 2013, 5:27:36 UTC - in response to Message 1334502.  
Last modified: 4 Feb 2013, 5:28:16 UTC

None of the 4 of us who have posted here have said anything doubting whether the story is genuine.
It is something else that I questioned.

Yes, and I remember a fool posting that here too.

I would expect more people to get shot at a range than any other location. Mind you most of the time it is unintentional.

In any case the alleged shooter is an alleged mental case. Another failure of feel good must re-integrate policy.

I don't see why you are so scathing of policies that are designed to recognise someone's human rights, even if they are mentally ill. Are the options for you really between locking up sick people, or letting them run riot with guns? how about simply making sure that they can't get hold of guns.


Es, I know you're responding to Gary, but I advocate in-patient programs for those whose illness is severe enough. In the 70s, there'd be a bit of the merry-go-round I mentioned in an earlier post, but it became worse in the 80s. And I think it had to little to nothing to do with "feel good", "reintegration" policies. Even in the 90s, some people, even do-gooder/feel-gooders knew what needed to be done when someone was a "danger to self, others or property".

Yes, and I remember a fool posting that here too.


Gary, who said that?
Has Worm altered his usage of the slang term "brainiac"?
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Message 1334542 - Posted: 4 Feb 2013, 7:24:51 UTC - in response to Message 1334514.  

None of the 4 of us who have posted here have said anything doubting whether the story is genuine.
It is something else that I questioned.

Yes, and I remember a fool posting that here too.

I would expect more people to get shot at a range than any other location. Mind you most of the time it is unintentional.

In any case the alleged shooter is an alleged mental case. Another failure of feel good me-integrate policy.

I don't see why you are so scathing of policies that are designed to recognise someone's human rights, even if they are mentally ill. Are the options for you really between locking up sick people, or letting them run riot with guns? how about simply making sure that they can't get hold of guns.


Es, I know you're responding to Gary, but I advocate in-patient programs for those whose illness is severe enough. In the 70s, there'd be a bit of the merry-go-round I mentioned in an earlier post, but it became worse in the 80s. And I think it had to little to nothing to do with "feel good", "reintegration" policies. Even in the 90s, some people, even do-gooder/feel-gooders knew what needed to be done when someone was a "danger to self, others or property".

Yes, and I remember a fool posting that here too.


Gary, who said that?
Has Worm altered his usage of the slang term "brainiac"?

And i agree with you, but it should be a last resort, not a first resort. I am sure I've mentioned before that someone i know was stabbed to death in a quite horrific way by a schizophrenic. However, that situation was more to do with the mental health service not stepping in when his mother warned them that he had stopped taking his meds.

@Gary, in that situation one woman was murdered and one was seriously injured. It happened in a densely populated housing estate. Both women were dragged out into street where children play and were repeatly stabbed. Horrific, but if he had had a gun...
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Message 1334592 - Posted: 4 Feb 2013, 15:00:06 UTC - in response to Message 1334542.  

@Gary, in that situation one woman was murdered and one was seriously injured. It happened in a densely populated housing estate. Both women were dragged out into street where children play and were repeatly stabbed. Horrific, but if he had had a gun...

Or ANFO ... Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols, Michael and Lori Fortier

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Message 1334696 - Posted: 4 Feb 2013, 20:20:05 UTC

It seems to me that while Schizophrenia may cause a person to be dangerous with

a gun, that any further comment is better addressed as a mental health issue.

no gun by itself is dangerous, it is the man or woman holding the gun that is

dangerous.

violence happens, and we need to address ways to mitigate that throwing tantrums

solves nothing.

yes mental health is broken, a man who was paranoid schizophrenic after being

hospitalized twice for being off his meds the week before strangled to death

a man in the same boarding house because he would not share cigarettes he then

cut the mans head off put it in a backpack and set it on a dumpster about 50

yards away.

this happened less than 50 yards from my house at the time.

needless to say we no longer have to worry about this nuisance because the law

can now deal with this problem, but it cost a life to get there.

the police knew he was a problem, the neighbors knew, I knew.

I reported him other neighbors reported him the police took him to Griffin the

local mental health facility twice in the 10 day prior. This still happened.

so yes the system is broken but what can be done?

Halfway houses can help and to some extent are being done but not nearly enough.
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Message 1334728 - Posted: 4 Feb 2013, 22:02:26 UTC - in response to Message 1334696.  

the police knew he was a problem, the neighbors knew, I knew.

And that is the problem. Until there are bodies piling up, the system can't do anything. It has been forbidden to place a person in a rubber room so they can no longer be a danger to themselves or others. Until they prove they are a danger, e.g. dead bodies, no one can act. This has to change or we accept killing and mass killing.


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Message 1334737 - Posted: 4 Feb 2013, 23:03:19 UTC

This has to change or we accept killing and mass killing


Prefered Over A Nanny State/Gulag State.

IGNORE Say: USSR-Third Reich-Dictatorship-Tyranny-Hustlin'HusseinAsylum(LOL)

May we All have a METAMORPHOSIS. REASON. GOoD JUDGEMENT and LOVE and ORDER!!!!!
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Message 1334745 - Posted: 4 Feb 2013, 23:22:05 UTC

We NEED a Separate Thread to deal with Mental Illness...Some of these Posts have Nothing to do with Danger from Firearms...Just My Opinion.

I Desire Peace and Justice, Jim Scott (Mod-Ret.)
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Message 1334749 - Posted: 4 Feb 2013, 23:31:38 UTC - in response to Message 1334745.  

We NEED a Separate Thread to deal with Mental Illness...Some of these Posts have Nothing to do with Danger from Firearms...Just My Opinion.

A firearm is an inanimate object. It only becomes dangerous when held in the hand. Hands generally are attached to human minds. It is the same subject.

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Message 1334751 - Posted: 4 Feb 2013, 23:38:40 UTC - in response to Message 1334749.  

We NEED a Separate Thread to deal with Mental Illness...Some of these Posts have Nothing to do with Danger from Firearms...Just My Opinion.

A firearm is an inanimate object. It only becomes dangerous when held in the hand. Hands generally are attached to human minds. It is the same subject.


Agreed on all points.
It was, in fact, the meaning/point behind IDs titling of the thread.
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Message 1334881 - Posted: 5 Feb 2013, 8:18:17 UTC

The problem as I see it is a combined firearms/mental health problem. But as you can never anticipate when a person is going to have a mental health breakdown then it becomes apparent that the firearms must be controlled. About a quarter of all people have a diagnosed mental health problem each year, usually a mild case of depression or similar, but not in all cases, especially if combined with illegal drugs.

If in any one year 0.000001% of the population of the USA has a mental breakdown that makes them think they should sort out the problem by shooting other people and they have access to a semi-automatic weapon then we have three multiple killings a year.
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Message 1334935 - Posted: 5 Feb 2013, 14:55:45 UTC - in response to Message 1334881.  

You need to get rid of a couple zeros to just get to the number in a single major city in the USA in a year. The USA has around 100 major cities, so take two more zeros away.
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Message 1335681 - Posted: 8 Feb 2013, 4:40:32 UTC

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Message 1335875 - Posted: 8 Feb 2013, 19:18:56 UTC - in response to Message 1330795.  

Oh, by the way...

All the latest shootings of the mass type, movie house, and schools, were done by people who came from VERY liberal families.

Just sayin...


Yeah, his mama liberally took him out to the gun range quite often, and then liberally lay down to let him shoot her.

Not just saying, except for the lay/lie down thingy.
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Message 1335976 - Posted: 9 Feb 2013, 1:00:32 UTC

Intent of the law is all that matters...

James Madison in Federalist No. 46 wrote:

Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments,to which the people are attached, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can adm...it of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain, that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes. But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, who could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments, and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance, that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of the legions which surround it.

Justice Story (appointed to the Supreme Court as an Associate Justice by James Madison in 1811), wrote a constitutional commentary in 1833 ("Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States"). Regarding the Second Amendment, he wrote:

The next amendment is: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

The importance of this article will scarcely be doubted by any persons, who have duly reflected upon the subject. The militia is the natural defence of a free country against sudden foreign invasions, domestic insurrections, and domestic usurpations of power by rulers. It is against sound policy for a free people to keep up large military establishments and standing armies in time of peace, both from the enormous expenses, with which they are attended, and the facile means, which they afford to ambitious and unprincipled rulers, to subvert the government, or trample upon the rights of the people. The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.
Must not conflict resolve by suggesting that someone should go sit on an ice pick...
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Message 1335997 - Posted: 9 Feb 2013, 2:24:52 UTC

What is free speech here? It's called--banished!
Why is it called banished? Because socialist don't understand free speech.
Why don't they understand free speech? They are sheeple.
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Message boards : Politics : Firearms. Who or what is dangerous?


 
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