Firearms. Who or what is dangerous?


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Message 1328828 - Posted: 18 Jan 2013, 21:40:53 UTC - in response to Message 1328746.
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 19:15:03 UTC

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Message 1328830 - Posted: 18 Jan 2013, 21:43:13 UTC - in response to Message 1328749.
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 19:14:54 UTC

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Message 1328894 - Posted: 19 Jan 2013, 1:00:35 UTC - in response to Message 1328828.

Ok, completely off topic, but...are you serious with that screen name, Guy??


no, but others in here are.


Grow up and stick with one screen name.

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Message 1328935 - Posted: 19 Jan 2013, 1:49:18 UTC

Interesting. 2 hang ups from an area code in TX.

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Message 1328950 - Posted: 19 Jan 2013, 2:12:52 UTC - in response to Message 1328935.

Interesting. 2 hang ups from an area code in TX.

if they weren't from India via VOIP -- pick your caller ID message

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Message 1328954 - Posted: 19 Jan 2013, 2:15:34 UTC - in response to Message 1328950.

Interesting. 2 hang ups from an area code in TX.

if they weren't from India via VOIP -- pick your caller ID message


My Obamaphone doesn't allow that.

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Message 1328959 - Posted: 19 Jan 2013, 2:23:19 UTC - in response to Message 1328830.

Ok, completely off topic, but...are you serious with that screen name, Guy??

Perhaps he should change it to David Koresh?


•No messages that are deliberately hostile or insulting.

"Ask me politely to turn in all my assault weapons and to register all my other guns. Let's see how that works out."

Again. David Koresh springs to mind. If you think my observation is hostile then what should we make of your threats to start shooting people who don't let you get your own way?

How did that work out for David?
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Message 1328962 - Posted: 19 Jan 2013, 2:30:23 UTC - in response to Message 1328827.

I am sure that you don't consider it unreasonable to be expected to have a license to drive a car, or have to take a test to drive that car. After all, sometimes we have to take a bit of hit to protect others. If those others are children, then it really is a no brainer.

Again, you say one thing and use an example of the other.

Do you need a drivers license to buy a car? NO!

It is people you want to track, even if you can't see it.


You need a license to use it, sure..and in the UK and Canada when you buy a car records are kept on who owns the vehicle. Which is not the case with private gun sales, which is part of the problem. So you are wrong. Cars are tracked.

You also need to prove you are competent to use it. As it is hard to conceal and carry a car a license is sufficient to ensure that cars aren't used by people in an irresponsible way and that you are accountable for what you do with your car.

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Message 1329000 - Posted: 19 Jan 2013, 5:29:06 UTC - in response to Message 1328962.

You need a license to use it, sure..and in the UK and Canada when you buy a car records are kept on who owns the vehicle. Which is not the case with private gun sales, which is part of the problem. So you are wrong. Cars are tracked.

Perhaps in the UK and Canada cars are only tracked. In the USA cars are taxed, an ad valorem tax. That is the reason for tracking, who do we send the tax bill to.

I'm sure if some congress person were to slap an ad valorem tax on guns and thus require them to be tracked for tax purposes it would pass constitutional muster. As to the likelihood of passage, somewhere between zero and nil.

However a federal law that just tracks guns will not pass constitutional muster. Now a state that does so as a part of a state militia law may very well pass muster. States however don't want militia's.


You also need to prove you are competent to use it. As it is hard to conceal and carry a car a license is sufficient to ensure that cars aren't used by people in an irresponsible way and that you are accountable for what you do with your car.

Are you telling me that car keys aren't concealable? Are you telling me that boozers don't drive? Are you telling me it is impossible to buy a car from a private party and never bother to have a license or register the car? Are you telling me it is impossible to steal a car? I don't think you are. If you are simply saying the car draws more visibility than the keys, then an bushmaster AR-15 with a 30 round magazine draws a lot more visibility than a lorcin l25, but which are you trying to ban?


I don't think the NRA has an issue with gun safety classes. I think they offer them. Frankly I don't know of any NRA member who would want someone who is incompetent standing next to them at the firing line of the range.

I don't think the NRA has an issue with limiting access to convicted felons. I don't think they have an issue with limiting access to "crazy" people. (Clear and present danger to themselves or others.) They have an issue with waiting periods. (Fund the check method for instant pass/fail.)

Once you admit the real issue is a people control issue you will find there is a lot of common ground to build something sensible that can work to reduce access of weapons to persons who should not have them.

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Message 1329007 - Posted: 19 Jan 2013, 5:58:48 UTC - in response to Message 1328962.

I am sure that you don't consider it unreasonable to be expected to have a license to drive a car, or have to take a test to drive that car. After all, sometimes we have to take a bit of hit to protect others. If those others are children, then it really is a no brainer.

Again, you say one thing and use an example of the other.

Do you need a drivers license to buy a car? NO!

It is people you want to track, even if you can't see it.


You need a license to use it, sure..and in the UK and Canada when you buy a car records are kept on who owns the vehicle. Which is not the case with private gun sales, which is part of the problem. So you are wrong. Cars are tracked.

You also need to prove you are competent to use it. As it is hard to conceal and carry a car a license is sufficient to ensure that cars aren't used by people in an irresponsible way and that you are accountable for what you do with your car.

You have got to be kidding right? Cars are never used irresponsibly? Every time you read the news you read about some unlicensed, uninsured, unregistered ,uninspected or any combination you can think of. Has caused an accident and killed or maimed some innocent.

I see how well regulations for cars and drivers works.
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Message 1329024 - Posted: 19 Jan 2013, 7:16:16 UTC - in response to Message 1329007.

I am sure that you don't consider it unreasonable to be expected to have a license to drive a car, or have to take a test to drive that car. After all, sometimes we have to take a bit of hit to protect others. If those others are children, then it really is a no brainer.

Again, you say one thing and use an example of the other.

Do you need a drivers license to buy a car? NO!

It is people you want to track, even if you can't see it.


You need a license to use it, sure..and in the UK and Canada when you buy a car records are kept on who owns the vehicle. Which is not the case with private gun sales, which is part of the problem. So you are wrong. Cars are tracked.

You also need to prove you are competent to use it. As it is hard to conceal and carry a car a license is sufficient to ensure that cars aren't used by people in an irresponsible way and that you are accountable for what you do with your car.

You have got to be kidding right? Cars are never used irresponsibly? Every time you read the news you read about some unlicensed, uninsured, unregistered ,uninspected or any combination you can think of. Has caused an accident and killed or maimed some innocent.

I see how well regulations for cars and drivers works.

Considering how many cars are on the road these regulations have worked extremely well.

Gun deaths in America projected to soon top car fatalities

"The fall in traffic deaths resulted from safer vehicles, restricted privileges for young drivers and seat-belt and other laws, he said. By contrast, "we've made policy decisions that have had the impact of making the widest array of firearms available to the widest array of people under the widest array of conditions." While fewer households have guns, people who own guns are buying more of them, he said."

Practically every household in the US has a car, not every house hold has a gun, yet we are looking at gun deaths topping car deaths.
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Message 1329026 - Posted: 19 Jan 2013, 7:27:48 UTC - in response to Message 1329000.


Are you telling me that car keys aren't concealable? Are you telling me that boozers don't drive? Are you telling me it is impossible to buy a car from a private party and never bother to have a license or register the car?

If you do these things there is a chance that you will get caught and held accountable. There is no such accountability for guns.

A bartender who allows a patron to leave his bar drunk and knowingly lets that person get into a car and drive will be in a hell of a lot of trouble.

There are no laws against gun stores selling guns to drunk people.


Are you telling me it is impossible to steal a car? I don't think you are. If you are simply saying the car draws more visibility than the keys, then an bushmaster AR-15 with a 30 round magazine draws a lot more visibility than a lorcin l25, but which are you trying to ban?

Gary, people need cars to get from A to B. Almost everyone is America has a car. They are everywhere. If there weren't so many cars there would a huge, massive reduction in car thefts. For example, if we made cars illegal, there would be a massive drop in the amount of cars on the road. There would still be some of course because a small amount of the population will break the law, but the huge drop in the amount of cars availble will cause a massive drop in car deaths.

There would also be a massive drop in illegal cars because there won't be so many cars around for people to steal.

No cars => less car theft => less illegal cars in circulation => less deaths using legally owned cars and less deaths using illegally owned cars.

It's simple math and applies even more directly to guns. Less guns. Less death by gun.


I don't think the NRA has an issue with gun safety classes. I think they offer them. Frankly I don't know of any NRA member who would want someone who is incompetent standing next to them at the firing line of the range.

I don't think the NRA has an issue with limiting access to convicted felons. I don't think they have an issue with limiting access to "crazy" people. (Clear and present danger to themselves or others.) They have an issue with waiting periods. (Fund the check method for instant pass/fail.)

Once you admit the real issue is a people control issue you will find there is a lot of common ground to build something sensible that can work to reduce access of weapons to persons who should not have them.

The NRA are a bunch of nutcases who are in business of promoting gun ownership or profit. You go on about locking up crazies, but don't seem to be able to recognise them when you come across them.
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Message 1329031 - Posted: 19 Jan 2013, 7:53:40 UTC - in response to Message 1329024.

I am sure that you don't consider it unreasonable to be expected to have a license to drive a car, or have to take a test to drive that car. After all, sometimes we have to take a bit of hit to protect others. If those others are children, then it really is a no brainer.

Again, you say one thing and use an example of the other.

Do you need a drivers license to buy a car? NO!

It is people you want to track, even if you can't see it.


You need a license to use it, sure..and in the UK and Canada when you buy a car records are kept on who owns the vehicle. Which is not the case with private gun sales, which is part of the problem. So you are wrong. Cars are tracked.

You also need to prove you are competent to use it. As it is hard to conceal and carry a car a license is sufficient to ensure that cars aren't used by people in an irresponsible way and that you are accountable for what you do with your car.

You have got to be kidding right? Cars are never used irresponsibly? Every time you read the news you read about some unlicensed, uninsured, unregistered ,uninspected or any combination you can think of. Has caused an accident and killed or maimed some innocent.

I see how well regulations for cars and drivers works.

Considering how many cars are on the road these regulations have worked extremely well.

Gun deaths in America projected to soon top car fatalities

"The fall in traffic deaths resulted from safer vehicles, restricted privileges for young drivers and seat-belt and other laws, he said. By contrast, "we've made policy decisions that have had the impact of making the widest array of firearms available to the widest array of people under the widest array of conditions." While fewer households have guns, people who own guns are buying more of them, he said."

Practically every household in the US has a car, not every house hold has a gun, yet we are looking at gun deaths topping car deaths.

Based on studies by Bloomberg, Now there is an unbiased opinion. NOT.
I can see some reforms do need to be made. The first one is to prosecute every idiot who breaks a gun law. Right from illegal possesion, to using one in a crime. Those laws are on the books allready. ENFORCE THEM!!!!
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Message 1329109 - Posted: 19 Jan 2013, 14:11:28 UTC
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 19:14:23 UTC

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Message 1329170 - Posted: 19 Jan 2013, 19:07:49 UTC

WP -
Germany initiates gun registry, to barely a peep

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Message 1329177 - Posted: 19 Jan 2013, 19:31:33 UTC - in response to Message 1329109.

... In 2012, in the US alone, 1.2 MILLION unborn children were hacked apart and discarded like trash ...

Guy, this is simply a lie. I suggest you go and revisit your biology lessons.

However, you bring a valid point without even realising it.

Restrict access to contraception and abortion rates go up. Of course if you make contraception illegal, there will always be some women who break the law and go and get contraception. However, in general, restricting access to contraception does mean less contraception and more unwanted pregnancies.

See, restricting access to something does have consequences.
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Message 1329181 - Posted: 19 Jan 2013, 19:35:19 UTC - in response to Message 1329031.


Based on studies by Bloomberg, Now there is an unbiased opinion. NOT.
I can see some reforms do need to be made. The first one is to prosecute every idiot who breaks a gun law. Right from illegal possesion, to using one in a crime. Those laws are on the books allready. ENFORCE THEM!!!!

Who is going to enforce them? The ATF? The NRA lobby has ensured that the ATF no longer has the power to do that.
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Message 1329189 - Posted: 19 Jan 2013, 19:54:18 UTC
Last modified: 22 Mar 2014, 12:45:11 UTC

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Message 1329192 - Posted: 19 Jan 2013, 20:13:45 UTC

Free men do not need guns

Only the paranoid need guns
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Message 1329203 - Posted: 19 Jan 2013, 20:48:17 UTC - in response to Message 1329189.

FREE MEN have guns. SLAVES don't.

Guy, so you are saying I wasn't a free man until I became a gun owner?
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