Firearms. Who or what is dangerous?

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Profile Es99
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Message 1322851 - Posted: 31 Dec 2012, 22:48:39 UTC - in response to Message 1322555.  

So making assault weapons illegal will take them of the street? We should make heroine and meth illegal too.

Are you suggesting that guns are addictive? and that once a person starts using one they become chemically dependent on it and trapped in a circle of violence and addiction as the gun takes over their life?

Are there then people out there that will steal if they can't get hold of a bullets? That will go without food to get their bullets? That will neglect themselves, prostitute themselves if they can't get bullets?

If guns are like meth and heroine then the problem is more serious that we thought.



he was making the point that just because you make something illegal doesn't

mean that you can get it out of the hand of the people or stop people using

or doing them.


Wow. What a concept!


I know but he/she didn't seam able to understand.

No, he/she thought it was a stupid equivalency.
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Message 1322872 - Posted: 31 Dec 2012, 23:27:25 UTC - in response to Message 1322851.  

So making assault weapons illegal will take them of the street? We should make heroine and meth illegal too.

Are you suggesting that guns are addictive? and that once a person starts using one they become chemically dependent on it and trapped in a circle of violence and addiction as the gun takes over their life?

Are there then people out there that will steal if they can't get hold of a bullets? That will go without food to get their bullets? That will neglect themselves, prostitute themselves if they can't get bullets?

If guns are like meth and heroine then the problem is more serious that we thought.



he was making the point that just because you make something illegal doesn't

mean that you can get it out of the hand of the people or stop people using

or doing them.


Wow. What a concept!


I know but he/she didn't seam able to understand.

No, he/she thought it was a stupid equivalency.


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Message 1323020 - Posted: 1 Jan 2013, 4:29:30 UTC - in response to Message 1322851.  

So making assault weapons illegal will take them of the street? We should make heroine and meth illegal too.

Are you suggesting that guns are addictive? and that once a person starts using one they become chemically dependent on it and trapped in a circle of violence and addiction as the gun takes over their life?

Are there then people out there that will steal if they can't get hold of a bullets? That will go without food to get their bullets? That will neglect themselves, prostitute themselves if they can't get bullets?

If guns are like meth and heroine then the problem is more serious that we thought.



he was making the point that just because you make something illegal doesn't

mean that you can get it out of the hand of the people or stop people using

or doing them.


Wow. What a concept!


I know but he/she didn't seam able to understand.

No, he/she thought it was a stupid equivalency.


this is dancers room mate

about 95% of "gun crimes" are performed with a gun that has been obtained illegally. therefore, gun crimes won't really decrease by not allowing law abiding citizens to carry guns.
It's just like drugs. Ya just abuse them and obtain them illegally
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Message 1323039 - Posted: 1 Jan 2013, 5:12:22 UTC - in response to Message 1323020.  

So making assault weapons illegal will take them of the street? We should make heroine and meth illegal too.

Are you suggesting that guns are addictive? and that once a person starts using one they become chemically dependent on it and trapped in a circle of violence and addiction as the gun takes over their life?

Are there then people out there that will steal if they can't get hold of a bullets? That will go without food to get their bullets? That will neglect themselves, prostitute themselves if they can't get bullets?

If guns are like meth and heroine then the problem is more serious that we thought.



he was making the point that just because you make something illegal doesn't

mean that you can get it out of the hand of the people or stop people using

or doing them.


Wow. What a concept!


I know but he/she didn't seam able to understand.

No, he/she thought it was a stupid equivalency.


this is dancers room mate

about 95% of "gun crimes" are performed with a gun that has been obtained illegally. therefore, gun crimes won't really decrease by not allowing law abiding citizens to carry guns.
It's just like drugs. Ya just abuse them and obtain them illegally


I think if Dancer's roommate is going to post so much, Dancer's roommate should get a separate computer working for SETI@Home so that Dancer's roommate will have his or her own account.
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Message 1323040 - Posted: 1 Jan 2013, 5:15:22 UTC - in response to Message 1323020.  

So making assault weapons illegal will take them of the street? We should make heroine and meth illegal too.

Are you suggesting that guns are addictive? and that once a person starts using one they become chemically dependent on it and trapped in a circle of violence and addiction as the gun takes over their life?

Are there then people out there that will steal if they can't get hold of a bullets? That will go without food to get their bullets? That will neglect themselves, prostitute themselves if they can't get bullets?

If guns are like meth and heroine then the problem is more serious that we thought.



he was making the point that just because you make something illegal doesn't

mean that you can get it out of the hand of the people or stop people using

or doing them.



Wow. What a concept!


I know but he/she didn't seam able to understand.

No, he/she thought it was a stupid equivalency.


this is dancers room mateo

about 95% of "gun crimes" are performed with a gun that has been obtained illegally. therefore, gun crimes won't really decrease by not allowing law abiding citizens to carry guns.
It's just like drugs. Ya just abuse them and obtain them illegally

I'll explain this again.
You cannot equate drug prohibition with gun prohibition because guns are not addictive.
The reason it is so easy to get hold of illegal guns is because there are so many legal ones in circulation and no proper monitoring of where they end up.
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Message 1323044 - Posted: 1 Jan 2013, 5:29:36 UTC - in response to Message 1323039.  

I think if Dancer's roommate is going to post so much, Dancer's roommate should get a separate computer working for SETI@Home so that Dancer's roommate will have his or her own account.

+1
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Message 1323046 - Posted: 1 Jan 2013, 5:34:19 UTC - in response to Message 1323040.  

this is dancers room mateo

about 95% of "gun crimes" are performed with a gun that has been obtained illegally. therefore, gun crimes won't really decrease by not allowing law abiding citizens to carry guns.
It's just like drugs. Ya just abuse them and obtain them illegally

I'll explain this again.
You cannot equate drug prohibition with gun prohibition because guns are not addictive.
The reason it is so easy to get hold of illegal guns is because there are so many legal ones in circulation and no proper monitoring of where they end up.

I'll explain again ...
http://www.cncguns.com/
All you need is a garage and some metal and wood working tools. No different than a meth lab.

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Message 1323055 - Posted: 1 Jan 2013, 5:57:53 UTC - in response to Message 1323044.  

I think if Dancer's roommate is going to post so much, Dancer's roommate should get a separate computer working for SETI@Home so that Dancer's roommate will have his or her own account.

+1



he has a laptop and I've told him that



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Message 1323078 - Posted: 1 Jan 2013, 7:03:47 UTC
Last modified: 1 Jan 2013, 7:34:19 UTC

Interesting opinions blog in the Wahington Post.
Stop the gun madness

“Normal,” however, is tragically unacceptable. In 2010, guns took the lives of 31,076 Americans. Most of the deaths were suicides; a few were accidental. About a third of them — 11,078 — were homicides. That’s almost twice the number of Americans who have been killed in a decade of war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

In Britain, by comparison, the number of gun homicides in 2010 was 58. Here we’d consider that a rounding error.

What explains the difference? Well, I spent a few years as The Post’s London bureau chief, and I can attest that Britain has the same social ills that we have — crime, unemployment, alienation, racial strife, mental illness. Britain also has a powerful, rural-based constituency determined to protect the right of hunters to spend weekends blasting away at shadows in the woods. Gun-loving Brits are no less passionate than gun-loving Americans.


edit] I am now reading the link in that article. It is well worth a read.

Some questions that are in it

What are the health risks of having a gun in the home?

How many road deaths would there be if safer cars, driving laws and roads had not been introduced?

What are the differences in gun crimes and deaths between two very similar close cities, Seattle and across the border in Vancouver B.C.?
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Message 1323079 - Posted: 1 Jan 2013, 7:06:20 UTC - in response to Message 1323046.  

this is dancers room mateo

about 95% of "gun crimes" are performed with a gun that has been obtained illegally. therefore, gun crimes won't really decrease by not allowing law abiding citizens to carry guns.
It's just like drugs. Ya just abuse them and obtain them illegally

I'll explain this again.
You cannot equate drug prohibition with gun prohibition because guns are not addictive.
The reason it is so easy to get hold of illegal guns is because there are so many legal ones in circulation and no proper monitoring of where they end up.

I'll explain again ...
http://www.cncguns.com/
All you need is a garage and some metal and wood working tools. No different than a meth lab.

...and would probably be relevant if most gun deaths weren't committed by previously law abiding citizens or if people would desperately try to get hold of guns because they are addicted to them or you had a whole subculture of gun pushers selling guns for cheap outside schools to get young people addicted.

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Message 1323102 - Posted: 1 Jan 2013, 8:19:22 UTC - in response to Message 1323079.  

...and would probably be relevant if most gun deaths weren't committed by previously law abiding citizens

cite please - note not being caught/convicted doesn't make you previously law abiding, e.g. Al Capone before he was convicted of tax evasion ...

or if people would desperately try to get hold of guns because they are addicted to them

you would be shocked how many have a psychosexual relationship with them

or you had a whole subculture of gun pushers selling guns for cheap outside schools to get young people addicted.

Outside? Why would they go outside when they are already inside attending the school?

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Message 1323103 - Posted: 1 Jan 2013, 8:20:58 UTC - in response to Message 1323079.  

this is dancers room mateo

about 95% of "gun crimes" are performed with a gun that has been obtained illegally. therefore, gun crimes won't really decrease by not allowing law abiding citizens to carry guns.
It's just like drugs. Ya just abuse them and obtain them illegally

I'll explain this again.
You cannot equate drug prohibition with gun prohibition because guns are not addictive.
The reason it is so easy to get hold of illegal guns is because there are so many legal ones in circulation and no proper monitoring of where they end up.

I'll explain again ...
http://www.cncguns.com/
All you need is a garage and some metal and wood working tools. No different than a meth lab.

...and would probably be relevant if most gun deaths weren't committed by previously law abiding citizens or if people would desperately try to get hold of guns because they are addicted to them or you had a whole subculture of gun pushers selling guns for cheap outside schools to get young people addicted.

Studies conducted at both the local and national level indicate the overwhelming majority of murders are committed by people with previous criminal records. Even a significant percentage of homicide victims themselves have criminal records
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Message 1323201 - Posted: 1 Jan 2013, 13:15:54 UTC
Last modified: 1 Jan 2013, 13:16:35 UTC

something else to ponder is that high power air guns do not fall under the

jurisdiction of the BTAF so have vary few regulations.

Full auto and suppressors are legal for instance as an example.
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Message 1323362 - Posted: 1 Jan 2013, 19:44:54 UTC - in response to Message 1323186.  

The only answer and the way forward is to restrict as far as possible the ownership of guns to sane people ...


Once again, I ask, do we have mental health experts here?
Do you not realize some people are not able to be diagnosed for years?
Or that some can be "mentally healthy" and then begin to exhibit mental illness?
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Message 1323379 - Posted: 1 Jan 2013, 21:56:00 UTC - in response to Message 1323362.  

The only answer and the way forward is to restrict as far as possible the ownership of guns to sane people ...


Once again, I ask, do we have mental health experts here?
Do you not realize some people are not able to be diagnosed for years?
Or that some can be "mentally healthy" and then begin to exhibit mental illness?

Cops (in the US) are perhaps the most psych tested people. Cops abuse their wives at a much larger rate the the population in general. Cops are taught that violence is the answer to most conflicts. Think a bit. What is the problem?

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Message 1323409 - Posted: 1 Jan 2013, 23:45:13 UTC - in response to Message 1323391.  

Cops (in the US) are perhaps the most psych tested people. Cops abuse their wives at a much larger rate the the population in general. Cops are taught that violence is the answer to most conflicts. Think a bit. What is the problem?

You have maybe highlighted one part of the problem.




sadly the testing mostly only happens in large police departments,and also the

aversion of most police to report other police, look at the resistance to dash

cam's until the police saw how effective the footage could be in front of a judge.
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Message 1323418 - Posted: 2 Jan 2013, 0:43:12 UTC - in response to Message 1323379.  

The only answer and the way forward is to restrict as far as possible the ownership of guns to sane people ...


Once again, I ask, do we have mental health experts here?
Do you not realize some people are not able to be diagnosed for years?
Or that some can be "mentally healthy" and then begin to exhibit mental illness?

Cops (in the US) are perhaps the most psych tested people. Cops abuse their wives at a much larger rate the the population in general. Cops are taught that violence is the answer to most conflicts. Think a bit. What is the problem?


A reasonable question, and we could go round on the reasons, but that wasn't the point of my questions. I am thinking of the general population. Not just police officers.
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Message 1323423 - Posted: 2 Jan 2013, 1:06:54 UTC - in response to Message 1323418.  

The only answer and the way forward is to restrict as far as possible the ownership of guns to sane people ...


Once again, I ask, do we have mental health experts here?
Do you not realize some people are not able to be diagnosed for years?
Or that some can be "mentally healthy" and then begin to exhibit mental illness?

Cops (in the US) are perhaps the most psych tested people. Cops abuse their wives at a much larger rate the the population in general. Cops are taught that violence is the answer to most conflicts. Think a bit. What is the problem?


A reasonable question, and we could go round on the reasons, but that wasn't the point of my questions. I am thinking of the general population. Not just police officers.


The US jurisprudence system requires the prof of wrong doing before the law can

intervene so any thing done to pre select bad people to bar gun ownership would

be on the face of it illegal.

Less so for the mentally ill but they have rights to.

So you are just left with criminals and it is already illegal for them

reference the system is broken bellow.
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Message 1323541 - Posted: 2 Jan 2013, 11:53:49 UTC

high power air guns come in sizes up to taking down a full grown moose

at 1600 lb but talking about these has been deemed other so

I have started a thread HIGH POWER AIR THE OTHER GUNS and have moved it there

so if any one is interested please go there.
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Message 1323733 - Posted: 2 Jan 2013, 19:54:17 UTC - in response to Message 1323541.  

high power air guns come in sizes up to taking down a full grown moose

at 1600 lb but talking about these has been deemed other so

I have started a thread HIGH POWER AIR THE OTHER GUNS and have moved it there

so if any one is interested please go there.

IIRC those rifles are also single shot.


In a rich man's house there is no place to spit but his face.
Diogenes Of Sinope
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