Message boards :
Politics :
Independents' thread for discussing gun issues
Message board moderation
Previous · 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · Next
Author | Message |
---|---|
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
Let me ask you statists something. Careful, a statist is a statist, not a fedist or a nationallst. ;) |
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
When they finally figure out how to tell who's well in mind, watch out. You'll find a very small percentage of us are. So, stop throwing around the "another mentally ill guy off his rocker and meds" comments. |
Terror Australis Send message Joined: 14 Feb 04 Posts: 1817 Credit: 262,693,308 RAC: 44 |
No Sarge. There is a limit.I'll agree with you that most people have degree of irrationality but when it gets to the point of specifically arming yourself to start taking out seven year olds or fellow employees. That is definitely outside the "normal" range. I can understand "crimes of passion" and even a gangland hit that is cold bloodedly organised to get rid of rival (there is a certain rationality to this), but to start blazing away at people you don't know, are no threat and have done you no harm shows a complete withdrawal from the rest of humanity. T.A. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
No Sarge. There is a limit.I'll agree with you that most people have degree of irrationality but when it gets to the point of specifically arming yourself to start taking out seven year olds or fellow employees. That is definitely outside the "normal" range. When you get to the point of arming yourself to protect yourself against a democratic republic government because you think there is some conspiracy in that government to come after you, that is outside the normal range. When you arm yourself for protection because you job makes you a target for the criminal element, e.g. transportation of large amounts of cash, that is a rational decision. When you arm yourself for protection without any credible specific threat, that is borderline. |
Intelligent Design Send message Joined: 9 Apr 12 Posts: 3626 Credit: 37,520 RAC: 0 |
Madison wrote the Constitution in his own hand. But in corresponding with Jefferson. Reason... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government" -- Thomas Jefferson This isn't the only reason. But the strongest one. The intent of law is the only thing needed to be looked at. We have a contract with the federal government. They have broken it, each and every last part of it. Not only that but the states have gone along with it. If, or better yet, when, the house of cards falls we have reason, last resort. Example they finish off the dollar and chaos ensues, reason for the firearm becomes evident. If the people where not ignorant sheeple and demanded the contract be followed, we wouldn't be at this point in the first place. |
W-K 666 Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 19062 Credit: 40,757,560 RAC: 67 |
to protect themselves against tyranny in government Can you cite one occasion where the US Government has been cruel and oppressive and not been questioned if cruel acts against the population have been suspected. The fact that laws have changed, probably because they no longer fit the present situation, is not a reason for an uprising or even suggesting one. |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
to protect themselves against tyranny in government Do you mean to say you consider taxes cruel and oppressive? Is it cruel and oppressive to order citizens to hand over all possessions and report to the rice fields or die? And there was me thinking you were a Christian: Mark 10:21 As Jesus looked at him, he felt love for him and said, “You lack one thing. Go, sell whatever you have and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.†Luke 18:22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.†Matthew 19:21 Jesus said to him, “If you wish to be perfect, go sell your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.†The fact that laws are changing faster than human nature is changing is precisely the reason for suggesting an uprising more and more. Which laws are you referring to? The fact that several states sent letters to Washington DC stating an intent to seceed from the union is evidence Which states have done this? Note, petitions signed by a few citizens upset by the outcome of the last election do not qualify as a letter from a state. that more and more people are realizing we are beginning to witness a course in human events that may lead the people to dissolve the political bands which have connected us with one another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature Which "Laws of Nature" do you subscribe to? For example, Hobbes, Rousseau and Rawls have very different ideas. and of Nature's God entitle us. In an effort to remain peaceful, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that we should declare the causes which impel us to separate. But our current federal government is beginning to forget the fact that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. And they are also forgetting the fact that our federal government derives their just powers from the consent of the governed. And when the people see that the federal government is becoming destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government. Will you be better off without your military pension? If so, then by all means champion the overthrowing of the Union ... Many, many peaceful solutions still exist today. But if we continue on our current course, we will repeat a very violent past. Look at the list of grievances, where is your list of similarly serious issues? I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Taxation without representation. At the county level, not federal. Many property owners are not permitted to vote for or on the taxes upon their properties. Persons who are not property owners are permitted to vote on these matters. |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
Do you mean to say you consider taxes cruel and oppressive? Does not answer the question asked. Selectively quoting from the Bible will get no where with you. Why do you think it'll get anywhere with me? You have stated that you are a Christian, I have not. As a Christian, do you accept the words of your God regarding entry to heaven? How many laws are you unaware of? Aside from not answering the question, I have to ask are you serious? Laws of nature are self evident to many. Before man figured out how to seize control of large populations, those who didn't see them where pushed out of the village. Does not answer the question. You must only watch MSNBC. They played down the petitions to seceed also. You said states had written letters, you were azked which ones? Again you failed to answer the question asked. My viewing habits are irrelevant; "playing down the petitions", do you consider less than 1% of the population more than "a few"? What does my military pension have to do with what I am talking about? You military pension is provided by the federal government, is it not? If so, which agency do you think will provide it should the federal government be replaced (or Texas secede)? What do the grievances of more than 200 years ago have to do with today? They provide examples of the issues that the Founding Fathers thought made a case to revolt against the government of the day. Yes, I quoted some timeless words, didn't I? Thanks for noticing my plagerism. If I had sourced it, some of you would not have read it. I've listed my grievances in the past. Even you are ignoring them. I asked "where is your list", if you have provided it in the past, could you provide a link? As for ignoring the words you quoted, the link to the source facilitates a reading of them in their original context, some may prefer that option. I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
Make a point and I'll address it. Making points appears to be your style, I prefer to ask questions. Please address the ones that remain unanswered. I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30651 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Make a point and I'll address it. Like talking points for ditto heads? |
soft^spirit Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 6497 Credit: 34,134,168 RAC: 0 |
Like talking points for ditto heads? Ditto heads is a reference to the mindless masses listening and agreeing with Rush Limbaugh, a conservative radio personality. Janice |
bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 2866 Credit: 17,789,109 RAC: 3 |
Right after this last national election, I quit being fair and have untied the half of my brain that I had tied in the past to make debating liberals fair. Didn't you previously announce some sort of conversion to liberalism around election time? I'm an no longer wanting to be friendly with the mind-numbed robot voters who are successfully destroying this nation through athiesm, socialism, Marxism and communism. How does atheism destroy the nation? If the voters are mind-numbed robots, how do they have the capacity to follow the ideas of any of the isms you list? I no longer listen to Rush Limbaugh. He now listens to me and then repeats what I have to say on over 600 AM radio stations. I don't know how he's doing it because we've never talked. If you no longer listen to Rush, how do you know he repeats what you have to say? I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ... |
Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
Right after this last national election, I quit being fair and have untied the half of my brain that I had tied in the past to make debating liberals fair. He lost me when I realised he shared the same ideas as Rush. Now I know we're wasting our time. Rush is a vile ignorant man. Reality Internet Personality |
Blurf Send message Joined: 2 Sep 06 Posts: 8962 Credit: 12,678,685 RAC: 0 |
Rush is a vile ignorant man. That's one thing we agree on 100%, Es.... |
Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 12273 Credit: 8,569,109 RAC: 79 |
Right after this last national election, I quit being fair and have untied the half of my brain that I had tied in the past to make debating liberals fair. Please stay on topic. You were invited here to discuss the gun issues raised in my opening posts. |
©2024 University of California
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.