I think some from other countries do not underand our bill of rights.


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Mike Sebrey
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Message 1318072 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 10:39:39 UTC

I was always partial to this section of the Declaration of Independence.

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
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Message 1318097 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 11:58:12 UTC

I do not advocate the overthrow of our current government........
But, I believe it is going to happen.

The USA is in the same quandary that the UK is in. At our last election neither of the two mainstream parties got enough votes to form a majority government, it was almost 50/50. Hence the smaller Lib Dem party held the balance of power and went into coalition with the Conservatives. In the USA the popular vote again was almost 50/50, but you have this thing called the Electoral College which we don't have. The upshot of all this is that both our countries have a population that is split down the middle between the left and the right. How can you effectively run a country when half of your people will disagree with WHOEVER is in power? It's no wonder there is so much dissatisfaction about.

Over here we have the coalition partners bickering over who is going to support or not support supposedly jointly agreed policies, but we do have a system where the Opposition can propose a vote of no confidence in the government. If that is passed then they have to dissolve parliament and have a new General Election. A vote of no confidence can also be proposed against the Prime Minister, although faced with one they would automatically resign in favour of a successor. You have the Impeachment system.

The only way forward that I see is, to either have a viable third party alternative as a government to vote for, or the main parties join together to form a joint government for the benefit of the country. Neither of which I see happening in either of our countries.


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Message 1318144 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 13:32:36 UTC

it's becoming a bit of a battle between Obama's government and the almost half this country that voted against him.

Which was exactly the point I was making. At the moment some people over here are forecasting that as the country is still divided 50/50, the next General Election in 2014 may see a coalition between Labour and the Lib Dems. I still make the same basic point though, how can you effectively run a country when half of your people will disagree with WHOEVER is in power?

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Message 1318147 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 13:51:11 UTC

It is a problem of Party, yes.

It's more so a problem of virtue.

When a side does not get it's way they BREAK the Rule of Law to get their way.

Deadlock is a good thing. When nothing is done NOTHING is spent as far as money.

BUT that is not what happens. They BREAK the Rule of Law in order to get their way. THAT is called treason.

They are elected to represent, not to become Dictators.



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Message 1318148 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 13:52:12 UTC - in response to Message 1318072.

I was always partial to this section of the Declaration of Independence.

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.



Ummmm, +1

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Message 1318172 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 14:55:32 UTC - in response to Message 1318144.

Chris, it will take compromise. It will take people working together to try to find some middle ground to deal with. It will take people realizing the 1950's are over and they want their domestic policies back. It will take people to realize that unlike the movies the good guys usually do not have a gun handy when needed, and that it is not a means of negotation, nor democracy, nor anything but brutal intimidation. It will take people having a large cup of calm-the-heck-down and trying to understand this thing we call civilization.

We have always had people who disagreed. Always will have. But it seems they are forgetting how to do anything but have a temper tantrum when things do not go their way.

Sad. Really really sad.


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Message 1318175 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 15:05:34 UTC
Last modified: 21 Dec 2012, 15:11:00 UTC

You make excuse for what is done to the Rule of Law. That is what is sad. The Rule of Law was made for ALL and is what we ALL agree to as a FRAMEWORK for our LAW. NEVER to be broken for any reason! THAT is why they all swear an OATH to uphold the LAW before GOD and COUNTRY. What is damn SAD is that YOU don't get it!

This is why a third Party is NEEDED and a Party that WILL uphold and demand that the LAW is upheld!

There is NO compromise on the Rule of Law. What is NOT within the Rule of Law is up to the states and the people within that state, such things have NOTHING to do with the Federal Government at all and MUST be passed back down to the state for them to make up THEIR minds on how best to deal with it. And HERE is where virtue comes to play. The federal government MUST understand that it is not "within the Constitution", that takes virtue. Then that MUST passed down and it MUST be OUT of their hands. Then the state must act, or choose to pass it down to the county. They (federal elected and judicial) have become Dictators and THAT is TREASON!

You make excuse for what is done to the Rule of Law. That is what is sad.

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Message 1318178 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 15:10:15 UTC
Last modified: 21 Dec 2012, 15:12:53 UTC

they are forgetting how to do anything but have a temper tantrum when things do not go their way.


You are basically right Janice. Because free speech on the Internet allows that to happen. You get a much wider audience than writing to a newspaper, or addressing a meeting.

This is what I think many philosophers have predicted over the ages, in that there will come a time when countries, governments, populations, will become unstable, and implode/explode. This will mean the end of the world as we know it, not in the sense that the planet will blow up, but in the sense of a new world order that will have to be found to continue life on earth. It was always thought in the 1950's that WWIII would be between Russia and America, now it seems more likely to be the West against the Far East, with Middle east as a likely catalyst.

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Message 1318182 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 15:35:34 UTC - in response to Message 1318175.

You make excuse for what is done to the Rule of Law. That is what is sad. The Rule of Law was made for ALL and is what we ALL agree to as a FRAMEWORK for our LAW. NEVER to be broken for any reason! THAT is why they all swear an OATH to uphold the LAW before GOD and COUNTRY. What is damn SAD is that YOU don't get it!

This is why a third Party is NEEDED and a Party that WILL uphold and demand that the LAW is upheld!

There is NO compromise on the Rule of Law. What is NOT within the Rule of Law is up to the states and the people within that state, such things have NOTHING to do with the Federal Government at all and MUST be passed back down to the state for them to make up THEIR minds on how best to deal with it. And HERE is where virtue comes to play. The federal government MUST understand that it is not "within the Constitution", that takes virtue. Then that MUST passed down and it MUST be OUT of their hands. Then the state must act, or choose to pass it down to the county. They (federal elected and judicial) have become Dictators and THAT is TREASON!

You make excuse for what is done to the Rule of Law. That is what is sad.


Be "quite".

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Message 1318198 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 16:39:13 UTC - in response to Message 1318182.

*sigh* well beyond my ignore I still read an example of exactly what I am talking about. Temper tantrums with no room to work with anyone.

That is exactly the type of words being screamed at each other that lets no one hear anything. No one is listening because everyone is screaming.

Add the threats and intimidation and you have the definition of the word "Bully".
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Message 1318204 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 16:52:51 UTC
Last modified: 21 Dec 2012, 16:54:43 UTC

It has everything to do with the availability and the stigma attached to getting help if one has an inkling or one's family has an inkling that somebody they love is compromised mentally.

Finally, someone mentions the elephant sitting in the middle of the room.

We know less about the human mind than just about everything else and seem to be determined to remain that way.
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Message 1318208 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 17:04:41 UTC

What I find strange about certain people's hatred of Obama, is that he's not a particularly radical president. His policies are fairly right wing. From what I can see he's actually right of Reagan. So what is it about him that inspires so much hatred and vitriol from certain members of the American populace?

Its very odd when you actually look at what he has done and what he stands for.

What is it do you think that makes some ignorant people hate him with such a rabid passion?



One of these men is not like the others.

I can't possibly imagine what it is that inspires such irrational hatred. What on earth could it all be about?

Its such a mystery...
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Message 1318210 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 17:08:54 UTC - in response to Message 1318207.

I have seen no recent signs of threats or intimidation from you Mark. Your panic at some things does concern me, but every now and then the rational appears. I do wish you would calm down a bit, this is the same country heading (with the speed of a glacier without global warming) in the same direction it has been. I know you do not like that, but it did not start recently, and it will most likely not stop on either of our lifetimes. I would like to see some constitutional guarantees restored, such as against unwarranted searches, wire taps, things that were suspended well before the current administration. I do not believe anyone or any agency is above the law, I do not believe consigning it to "private enterprise" is a legitimate bypass of the guarantees.

I continue to support free speech, freedom of (and from) religion, a reasonable right to bear arms (no one needs a surface to air missile at their home, I hope? Can we agree on that much?)

But above all I think we ALL need to hold our elected officials accountable. And vote them out when they are not responsive. I do not however think anyone taking up arms is going to help the situation.

In fact the glaring issues I see, no one is even talking about. It is lonely off on the left. *sniff*.
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Message boards : Politics : I think some from other countries do not underand our bill of rights.

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