I think some from other countries do not underand our bill of rights.


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msattler
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Message 1317984 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 5:07:30 UTC

You see, our country was built of strife.
Blood, and guns, and country.

And then we had to struggle thought a war amongst ourselves.

Very divisive. Many brothers killed each other in the civil war.


We are now emerging upon another civil war, my friends.
Those who are against evil and corruption against those who are not..
It is going to get ugly, like it or not.

I do not advocate the overthrow of our current government........
But, I believe it is going to happen.

God save the USA.
I stood by the Chicks........
The rocket's proof.

The home of the brave.
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Message 1318072 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 10:39:39 UTC

I was always partial to this section of the Declaration of Independence.

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
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msattler
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Message 1318094 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 11:38:39 UTC
Last modified: 21 Dec 2012, 11:45:49 UTC

I do believe that God gave man the discretion to free will. And as such, he also gave them the discretion to kill one another.
Sad thing about His way about what his direction is.

Guns are the way we, as Christians, have to defend ourselves against those who would oppose us. Now, God did say turn the other cheek, but he also gave us the right to defend ourselves and our children. Look it up.

The recent loss of innocent lives has NOTHING to do with the politics of guns.
It has nothing to do with Christianity.
It has everything to do with the availability and the stigma attached to getting help if one has an inkling or one's family has an inkling that somebody they love is compromised mentally.

I have struggled with this for many years........
I DO know what it is about.
I deal with it every day, 24/7.\

Those of you who have followed me on the boards here know I get whacko from time to time.

And although I get over it, I still have to apologize every freaking time my brain chemicals get whacked.

They are rather evil. They are.
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Message 1318097 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 11:58:12 UTC

I do not advocate the overthrow of our current government........
But, I believe it is going to happen.

The USA is in the same quandary that the UK is in. At our last election neither of the two mainstream parties got enough votes to form a majority government, it was almost 50/50. Hence the smaller Lib Dem party held the balance of power and went into coalition with the Conservatives. In the USA the popular vote again was almost 50/50, but you have this thing called the Electoral College which we don't have. The upshot of all this is that both our countries have a population that is split down the middle between the left and the right. How can you effectively run a country when half of your people will disagree with WHOEVER is in power? It's no wonder there is so much dissatisfaction about.

Over here we have the coalition partners bickering over who is going to support or not support supposedly jointly agreed policies, but we do have a system where the Opposition can propose a vote of no confidence in the government. If that is passed then they have to dissolve parliament and have a new General Election. A vote of no confidence can also be proposed against the Prime Minister, although faced with one they would automatically resign in favour of a successor. You have the Impeachment system.

The only way forward that I see is, to either have a viable third party alternative as a government to vote for, or the main parties join together to form a joint government for the benefit of the country. Neither of which I see happening in either of our countries.


msattler
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Message 1318106 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 12:09:23 UTC
Last modified: 21 Dec 2012, 12:15:33 UTC

Chris, it's not a quandary, at least in this country, it's becoming a bit of a battle between Obama's government and the almost half this country that voted against him.

I don't know ho6w it's gonna all
turn out, but either way, it shall not lead to peace in my time.

A recent thread was simply shredded by folks wanting to force their own agendas on others.\\

I posted my thoughts. I did not spear anybody.


I TOLD you......I am a Patriot.
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Profile Chris S
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Message 1318144 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 13:32:36 UTC

it's becoming a bit of a battle between Obama's government and the almost half this country that voted against him.

Which was exactly the point I was making. At the moment some people over here are forecasting that as the country is still divided 50/50, the next General Election in 2014 may see a coalition between Labour and the Lib Dems. I still make the same basic point though, how can you effectively run a country when half of your people will disagree with WHOEVER is in power?

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Message 1318172 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 14:55:32 UTC - in response to Message 1318144.

Chris, it will take compromise. It will take people working together to try to find some middle ground to deal with. It will take people realizing the 1950's are over and they want their domestic policies back. It will take people to realize that unlike the movies the good guys usually do not have a gun handy when needed, and that it is not a means of negotation, nor democracy, nor anything but brutal intimidation. It will take people having a large cup of calm-the-heck-down and trying to understand this thing we call civilization.

We have always had people who disagreed. Always will have. But it seems they are forgetting how to do anything but have a temper tantrum when things do not go their way.

Sad. Really really sad.


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Message 1318178 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 15:10:15 UTC
Last modified: 21 Dec 2012, 15:12:53 UTC

they are forgetting how to do anything but have a temper tantrum when things do not go their way.


You are basically right Janice. Because free speech on the Internet allows that to happen. You get a much wider audience than writing to a newspaper, or addressing a meeting.

This is what I think many philosophers have predicted over the ages, in that there will come a time when countries, governments, populations, will become unstable, and implode/explode. This will mean the end of the world as we know it, not in the sense that the planet will blow up, but in the sense of a new world order that will have to be found to continue life on earth. It was always thought in the 1950's that WWIII would be between Russia and America, now it seems more likely to be the West against the Far East, with Middle east as a likely catalyst.

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Message 1318182 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 15:35:34 UTC - in response to Message 1318175.

You make excuse for what is done to the Rule of Law. That is what is sad. The Rule of Law was made for ALL and is what we ALL agree to as a FRAMEWORK for our LAW. NEVER to be broken for any reason! THAT is why they all swear an OATH to uphold the LAW before GOD and COUNTRY. What is damn SAD is that YOU don't get it!

This is why a third Party is NEEDED and a Party that WILL uphold and demand that the LAW is upheld!

There is NO compromise on the Rule of Law. What is NOT within the Rule of Law is up to the states and the people within that state, such things have NOTHING to do with the Federal Government at all and MUST be passed back down to the state for them to make up THEIR minds on how best to deal with it. And HERE is where virtue comes to play. The federal government MUST understand that it is not "within the Constitution", that takes virtue. Then that MUST passed down and it MUST be OUT of their hands. Then the state must act, or choose to pass it down to the county. They (federal elected and judicial) have become Dictators and THAT is TREASON!

You make excuse for what is done to the Rule of Law. That is what is sad.


Be "quite".

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Message 1318197 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 16:28:30 UTC
Last modified: 21 Dec 2012, 16:37:50 UTC

This is about as good a place to post this clip as anywhere else.
It is not real, a dramatical scene from an upcoming TV blah blah blah series.

But, this one clip is about as close to home to describe my feelings about 'this great country' of mine as any.

America the Great? Not so any more.

3 minutes and 27 seconds of truth.

And about 10 seconds of blessed silence to think about it.

And what the actor says is SO true, it made me cry.
Because......America is NOT the greatest country in the world anymore.
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Message 1318198 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 16:39:13 UTC - in response to Message 1318182.

*sigh* well beyond my ignore I still read an example of exactly what I am talking about. Temper tantrums with no room to work with anyone.

That is exactly the type of words being screamed at each other that lets no one hear anything. No one is listening because everyone is screaming.

Add the threats and intimidation and you have the definition of the word "Bully".
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Message 1318204 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 16:52:51 UTC
Last modified: 21 Dec 2012, 16:54:43 UTC

It has everything to do with the availability and the stigma attached to getting help if one has an inkling or one's family has an inkling that somebody they love is compromised mentally.

Finally, someone mentions the elephant sitting in the middle of the room.

We know less about the human mind than just about everything else and seem to be determined to remain that way.
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Message 1318207 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 16:55:55 UTC - in response to Message 1318198.

*sigh* well beyond my ignore I still read an example of exactly what I am talking about. Temper tantrums with no room to work with anyone.

That is exactly the type of words being screamed at each other that lets no one hear anything. No one is listening because everyone is screaming.

Add the threats and intimidation and you have the definition of the word "Bully".

I hope that you will recognize that I did not 'bully' anybody in the now deceased thread.

Not my style.

I generally state my case and go away to let others argue the fine points. Or not so fine points.

But I am not usually the one to degenerate to name calling or telling somebody they have their head in their arse simply because they don't agree with me.


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Message 1318208 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 17:04:41 UTC

What I find strange about certain people's hatred of Obama, is that he's not a particularly radical president. His policies are fairly right wing. From what I can see he's actually right of Reagan. So what is it about him that inspires so much hatred and vitriol from certain members of the American populace?

Its very odd when you actually look at what he has done and what he stands for.

What is it do you think that makes some ignorant people hate him with such a rabid passion?



One of these men is not like the others.

I can't possibly imagine what it is that inspires such irrational hatred. What on earth could it all be about?

Its such a mystery...
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Message 1318209 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 17:08:34 UTC - in response to Message 1318204.

It has everything to do with the availability and the stigma attached to getting help if one has an inkling or one's family has an inkling that somebody they love is compromised mentally.

Finally, someone mentions the elephant sitting in the middle of the room.

We know less about the human mind than just about everything else and seem to be determined to remain that way.

I personally know much more about these things than many, Mike.
More than I can or shall admit here.
I lost a brother to suicide some 35 or more years ago, after chasing him all about town, he jumped off a bridge. I kissed his warm forehead in the morgue.
It haunts me still.
So, yes, I can say I know about the perils of a wounded mind.
Would better help have saved him? I obviously cannot answer that with certainty.
Would better help have saved my last 35 years? I cannot even answer that question with certainty.

But I CAN say that without the opportunity to access such help, there are certainly many who could be saved a lifetime of grief and struggle who are somehow now not awarded the opportunity.
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Message 1318210 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 17:08:54 UTC - in response to Message 1318207.

I have seen no recent signs of threats or intimidation from you Mark. Your panic at some things does concern me, but every now and then the rational appears. I do wish you would calm down a bit, this is the same country heading (with the speed of a glacier without global warming) in the same direction it has been. I know you do not like that, but it did not start recently, and it will most likely not stop on either of our lifetimes. I would like to see some constitutional guarantees restored, such as against unwarranted searches, wire taps, things that were suspended well before the current administration. I do not believe anyone or any agency is above the law, I do not believe consigning it to "private enterprise" is a legitimate bypass of the guarantees.

I continue to support free speech, freedom of (and from) religion, a reasonable right to bear arms (no one needs a surface to air missile at their home, I hope? Can we agree on that much?)

But above all I think we ALL need to hold our elected officials accountable. And vote them out when they are not responsive. I do not however think anyone taking up arms is going to help the situation.

In fact the glaring issues I see, no one is even talking about. It is lonely off on the left. *sniff*.
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Message 1318211 - Posted: 21 Dec 2012, 17:11:12 UTC - in response to Message 1318208.

What I find strange about certain people's hatred of Obama, is that he's not a particularly radical president. His policies are fairly right wing. From what I can see he's actually right of Reagan. So what is it about him that inspires so much hatred and vitriol from certain members of the American populace?

Its very odd when you actually look at what he has done and what he stands for.

What is it do you think that makes some ignorant people hate him with such a rabid passion?



One of these men is not like the others.

I can't possibly imagine what it is that inspires such irrational hatred. What on earth could it all be about?

Its such a mystery...


It's not a mystery, ES.

He is an arrogant bas***d who defines his presidency by his defiance of the constitution of this nation and of much of the citizenry he was sworn to represent.

There is no mystery here.

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