Same Gender Marriage

...

Es, you seem to have the attitude that men are emotionless goons with no feelings for their kids. You ignore the emotional strain that is put on them by only having limited access to them. i.e. One day per week, per fortnight, per month or sometimes less when they really want to be a full time father. Fathers Day

Some men just can't handle the stress this puts on them so they cut themselves off all together in order to survive.

The problem is parents, who when they split, are so full of hate to the other they use the kids as a weapon against the other party, ignoring the effect this has on the children themselves. To hear one person you love bad mouthing another person you love and demanding that you take sides is traumatic for them.

Children are not dumb, they know what is going on. My Mother used to give my Father a quite unjustified hard time, even at 10 years old I could see this. One day I asked him why he didn't leave. His reply was "Because I have four very good reasons to stay". I have never forgotten that and many years later when my wife and I broke up, the kids were all given the option as to which parent they lived with and no questions asked.

That is one thing I have always been grateful for. Despite the situation between us, my ex and I had the maturity not to drag the kids into it.

Edit: Part of the problem is the sexism of the Divorce/Family courts that in almost all cases give custody to the mother even though there are many cases where the children would be better off with the father.

T.A.

Now here's a seasonal conundrum for supporters of the thread title.

A 'dad' is tenth most popular Christmas list request for children

Which when, I would guess, about 70% of kids live in a home with a "Dad", means that a lot of those that don't have one, must have asked for a "Dad"

A request for a "mum" reached number 23 on the list.

Hmm, seems this post started an anecdote fest, a report on a survey conducted at two shopping centres, with confusing references as to who was asked (there's an implication that it was the parents who provide the answers). The report indicates that there were at least 50 different requests, and a survey population of 2000, so the average number of requests for a given item was at most 40 (2% of 2000). Whether 10th place was above this average is not in the linked article. The circumstances of the respondents is not in the article (how many requests were from families where the requested parent had died?). To be frank, aside from generating debate the report on the survey is somewhat less than useful.

Can we get back on topic?

The best of Fred Hutchison Intelligent design vs. gay marriage

+1 bobby

I find the Rene Descartes mystical flashes very interesting, almost like hearing voices. He had to come up with something, otherwise his logic left him at: I think, therefore there is thinking. He couldn't get to I am without invoking that which he just disproved.

I also find his quotes about human heart telling that there is no logic here

The advocates for traditional marriage have the advantage in the debate over first principles. It is easy to persuade a man that he has an innate nature because the idea is simple and clear and is naturally agreeable to the instincts of the human heart. In contrast, telling a man that he is a construct of myriad external factors reduces him to a programmed automaton, an idea that diminishes man and is repellant to the human heart.

No marriage equality law ever proposed in the United States would, nor ever will, force unwilling churches to perform marriage ceremonies for same sex couples, contrary to dishonest Catholic and Mormon propaganda, for example, about California's Proposition 8 in 2008. And if you object to same sex couples for religious reasons, then I'm sure you belong to a church that won't be performing them. State recognition of contracts between or among consenting adults is entirely a secular matter. You have no grounds to object, much less any legal standing.

The best of Fred Hutchison Intelligent design vs. gay marriage

and trust me..work places are actually LESS sympathetic to women who take time off for kids. Surprising I know, but sadly true.

A female manager who shall remain nameless ...
"What do you mean you have to take you kid to the doctor, that's what your wife is supposed to do. I'm not giving it to you."
"I'm going to fire her for getting pregnant."
A male manager had to countermand in each case.

You cite one extreme example.

Do you want me to cite all the times I've gotten crap from pretty much every job I've ever had for needing to take time off when the kids are sick? One job was so bad I ended up walking out...and it was a woman manager.

Do you want me to cite how many times I dosed my kids up with medicine and sent them to school sick because I knew I couldn't take anymore time off work?

Do you want me to cite all the times I looked at a promotion I would have loved to do and had to say no because I knew that as a mother I would have to choose between being there for my kids or for my job?

Shall I tell you how many times I had to miss school plays because I wasn't allowed the time off work?

How many times I had to let my kids walk home alone? How about the time I had to stay late at work, and my then 12 year old son had to walk his little brother home from school. He got mugged by two men who took the money I had given him to buy the dinner I couldn't cook because I couldn't get the time off work. While he was trying to protect his little brother, they punched him in the face so he would be too scared to go get help.

Yes, us women clearly have it so much easier.

I'm sorry. You clearly don't have a clue.

First if you dosed up your kid and sent him to school that was highly

irresponsible,

second if your boss would not let you have time off for a truly

sick child you should have taken him to work.

If your boss objects point out

that it was his decision that necessitated bringing the child to work

If the boss still take's exception remind him that a judge might find a work

ethic that requires a sick possibly vary sick child to be sent to school

a little odd.

If the boss is still a problem get another job for god sake the kid comes first.

better two crappy jobs that let you be with your child than 1 good one that does not.

And just so you do not think me heartless, I think any company that can should

provide day care and flex time. Study's show repeatedly that this makes for

better happier workers and saves money lost to unplanned days off and overtime.

Any business that is as inflexible as the one you describe should not be able

to find good employees. If you want to fix this vote with your feet and get a

better job. I think from reading your posts below that you are talented enough

to make a better way for your self that includes time for your children, It can't

hurt to look around for one.
____________

A lot of the Laws in the USA are based on the Common law of England.

There never has been any law on marriage in English common law. In England it was the Church of England canon law that applied.

So you have to look for any marriage laws in canon law, but isn't the church and state separate in the US, so if you don't belong to a church were there any marriage laws in 1776.

The UK marriage act of 1753, might be applied but Jews and Quakers were exempt, and so probably one could argue other religions are as well. The Royal Family is also exempt.

So far all I have found on marriage laws before 1776 and shortly after is things like banning interracial marriage.

So at this stage I feel like doing an I.D. and suggest you revert to the laws applying in 1776.

As there is no mention of marriage laws in the Constitution then presumably you should be able to do what you want.

(N.B. You might like to question the age at which people could get married, canon law in England stated you had to be over 21.)