Can good and evil exist without man?

Message boards : Politics : Can good and evil exist without man?
Message board moderation

To post messages, you must log in.

1 · 2 · Next

AuthorMessage
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1308472 - Posted: 21 Nov 2012, 19:50:29 UTC

Can good and evil exist without man?

Simple question. Is man a requirement for good and evil to exist?


ID: 1308472 · Report as offensive
Profile Angela Special Project $75 donor
Volunteer moderator
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 16 Oct 07
Posts: 13130
Credit: 39,854,104
RAC: 31
United States
Message 1308485 - Posted: 21 Nov 2012, 20:03:47 UTC

LOL! Fan of "Philosophy Talk", Gary? (We are too...)

Don't hold back, people... After all, “The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in times of great moral crises maintain their neutrality” (Dante Alighieri)
ID: 1308485 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1308489 - Posted: 21 Nov 2012, 20:13:27 UTC - in response to Message 1308487.  

Hi Ang. Gary never fails to entertain us :-)

They voted me best laugh in high school ...
ID: 1308489 · Report as offensive
W-K 666 Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 18 May 99
Posts: 19012
Credit: 40,757,560
RAC: 67
United Kingdom
Message 1308549 - Posted: 21 Nov 2012, 23:48:38 UTC

Needs a definition of good and evil.

There are incidents that were regarded as acceptable in the past that would get you locked up for life as a minimum these days and vice versa.

And are similar "evil" acts carried out in the animal kingdom, actually evil or a means of survival?
ID: 1308549 · Report as offensive
bobby
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 22 Mar 02
Posts: 2866
Credit: 17,789,109
RAC: 3
United States
Message 1308550 - Posted: 21 Nov 2012, 23:59:25 UTC - in response to Message 1308520.  

There's no such thing as good or evil. At best, they are relative terms used by those who judge. Since old-fashioned white men judge, I guess those terms cannot exist without with out old-fashioned white men.


You appear to be suggesting that only "old-fashioned white men" judge. Do you believe others are unable, chose not to, some other reason? What evidence to you have to support your belief?
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

ID: 1308550 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1308554 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 0:03:13 UTC - in response to Message 1308550.  

Bobby, that is getting a little off topic, not that it isn't a worthy subject.

ID: 1308554 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1308555 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 0:05:15 UTC - in response to Message 1308549.  

Needs a definition of good and evil.

There are incidents that were regarded as acceptable in the past that would get you locked up for life as a minimum these days and vice versa.

And are similar "evil" acts carried out in the animal kingdom, actually evil or a means of survival?

Yes, but is defining good and evil only something man can do? If so, then would you say that they don't exist without man.

ID: 1308555 · Report as offensive
bobby
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 22 Mar 02
Posts: 2866
Credit: 17,789,109
RAC: 3
United States
Message 1308557 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 0:12:23 UTC - in response to Message 1308554.  

Bobby, that is getting a little off topic, not that it isn't a worthy subject.


Fair enough. Seems to me that if one were to accept that "good" and "evil" are notions that may arise from an ability to consciously judge, then perhaps Guy had a bit of a point that was on topic. While we know of no other species that has this ability, absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence. It was Guy's restriction of this ability to a specific subset of our species that struck me as odd.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

ID: 1308557 · Report as offensive
W-K 666 Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 18 May 99
Posts: 19012
Credit: 40,757,560
RAC: 67
United Kingdom
Message 1308563 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 0:30:27 UTC - in response to Message 1308555.  

Needs a definition of good and evil.

There are incidents that were regarded as acceptable in the past that would get you locked up for life as a minimum these days and vice versa.

And are similar "evil" acts carried out in the animal kingdom, actually evil or a means of survival?

Yes, but is defining good and evil only something man can do? If so, then would you say that they don't exist without man.

Ok, accept your point, but in the animal kingdom, especially those where there is a Alpha leader does not the Leader make decisions about the behavior of the "guilty".
ID: 1308563 · Report as offensive
bobby
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 22 Mar 02
Posts: 2866
Credit: 17,789,109
RAC: 3
United States
Message 1308568 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 0:37:19 UTC - in response to Message 1308563.  

Needs a definition of good and evil.

There are incidents that were regarded as acceptable in the past that would get you locked up for life as a minimum these days and vice versa.

And are similar "evil" acts carried out in the animal kingdom, actually evil or a means of survival?

Yes, but is defining good and evil only something man can do? If so, then would you say that they don't exist without man.

Ok, accept your point, but in the animal kingdom, especially those where there is a Alpha leader does not the Leader make decisions about the behavior of the "guilty".

Anthropomorphism?
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

ID: 1308568 · Report as offensive
W-K 666 Project Donor
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 18 May 99
Posts: 19012
Credit: 40,757,560
RAC: 67
United Kingdom
Message 1308570 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 0:47:14 UTC - in response to Message 1308568.  

Needs a definition of good and evil.

There are incidents that were regarded as acceptable in the past that would get you locked up for life as a minimum these days and vice versa.

And are similar "evil" acts carried out in the animal kingdom, actually evil or a means of survival?

Yes, but is defining good and evil only something man can do? If so, then would you say that they don't exist without man.

Ok, accept your point, but in the animal kingdom, especially those where there is a Alpha leader does not the Leader make decisions about the behavior of the "guilty".

Anthropomorphism?

Isn't that more about observing human chacteristics in the animal kingdom, such as humour?
ID: 1308570 · Report as offensive
Profile Sarge
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 25 Aug 99
Posts: 12273
Credit: 8,569,109
RAC: 79
United States
Message 1308572 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 0:51:13 UTC - in response to Message 1308570.  

Needs a definition of good and evil.

There are incidents that were regarded as acceptable in the past that would get you locked up for life as a minimum these days and vice versa.

And are similar "evil" acts carried out in the animal kingdom, actually evil or a means of survival?

Yes, but is defining good and evil only something man can do? If so, then would you say that they don't exist without man.

Ok, accept your point, but in the animal kingdom, especially those where there is a Alpha leader does not the Leader make decisions about the behavior of the "guilty".

Anthropomorphism?

Isn't that more about observing human chacteristics in the animal kingdom, such as humour?


And attributing decision making ability to animals is ... ?
ID: 1308572 · Report as offensive
Profile Bob DeWoody
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 May 10
Posts: 3387
Credit: 4,182,900
RAC: 10
United States
Message 1308597 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 3:29:13 UTC

Since good and evil, like God are products of man's mind the answer is no. Good and evil need us to exist.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
ID: 1308597 · Report as offensive
Terror Australis
Volunteer tester

Send message
Joined: 14 Feb 04
Posts: 1817
Credit: 262,693,308
RAC: 44
Australia
Message 1308746 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 12:44:03 UTC
Last modified: 22 Nov 2012, 12:44:44 UTC

I agree with Bob.
To most other species, what we consider as good or evil simply comes down to a matter of survival. When times are good there is room for magnanimity, but when times are bad or when the hunt is on for a mate, it's everyone for themselves.

T.A.
ID: 1308746 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1308955 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 20:04:20 UTC

Sounds like there is general agreement that good and evil don't exist without man.
ID: 1308955 · Report as offensive
musicplayer

Send message
Joined: 17 May 10
Posts: 2430
Credit: 926,046
RAC: 0
Message 1308992 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 21:02:06 UTC
Last modified: 22 Nov 2012, 21:04:14 UTC

> Can good and evil exist without man?

> Simple question. Is man a requirement for good and evil to exist?

That was Gary Charpentier's words.

If we assume that both good and evil exist, this would be based on an assumption about religion and faith and its existence beyond our own beliefs.

Religion is all about moral and ethics. If you commit a crime like stealing a car, such a thing is not necessarily for neither the good or evil - at least not all the time. In order to prevent such things to happen, we have laws which prohibits such acts and possibly results in punishment in return.

For those who do not believe in religion, there are not supposed to be laws which tells what to do or not to do when it comes to the same moral and ethics. For some reason such people can still be good scientists though and able to carry out great work as well as many other things as well. Such people are neither capable of believing in neither a God as well as any devils which may be on the loose and lurking around in the streets.
ID: 1308992 · Report as offensive
Profile Bob DeWoody
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 9 May 10
Posts: 3387
Credit: 4,182,900
RAC: 10
United States
Message 1309073 - Posted: 23 Nov 2012, 1:31:37 UTC - in response to Message 1308992.  

> For those who do not believe in religion, there are not supposed to be laws which tells what to do or not to do when it comes to the same moral and ethics. For some reason such people can still be good scientists though and able to carry out great work as well as many other things as well. Such people are neither capable of believing in neither a God as well as any devils which may be on the loose and lurking around in the streets.


Not believing in God does not mean an atheist does not believe in right and wrong or morals. I think most atheists still have a sense of right and wrong. I actually think there is a strong need for religion in the world as long as it is not a vehicle for hatred and world dominance.
Bob DeWoody

My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.
ID: 1309073 · Report as offensive
Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
Volunteer tester
Avatar

Send message
Joined: 25 Dec 00
Posts: 30608
Credit: 53,134,872
RAC: 32
United States
Message 1309079 - Posted: 23 Nov 2012, 2:01:23 UTC - in response to Message 1308998.  

Christian principles

? Do you mean Cuneiform Law upon which most [western] moral codes are patterned?

ID: 1309079 · Report as offensive
1 · 2 · Next

Message boards : Politics : Can good and evil exist without man?


 
©2024 University of California
 
SETI@home and Astropulse are funded by grants from the National Science Foundation, NASA, and donations from SETI@home volunteers. AstroPulse is funded in part by the NSF through grant AST-0307956.