Can good and evil exist without man?


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Message 1308992 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 21:02:06 UTC
Last modified: 22 Nov 2012, 21:04:14 UTC

> Can good and evil exist without man?

> Simple question. Is man a requirement for good and evil to exist?

That was Gary Charpentier's words.

If we assume that both good and evil exist, this would be based on an assumption about religion and faith and its existence beyond our own beliefs.

Religion is all about moral and ethics. If you commit a crime like stealing a car, such a thing is not necessarily for neither the good or evil - at least not all the time. In order to prevent such things to happen, we have laws which prohibits such acts and possibly results in punishment in return.

For those who do not believe in religion, there are not supposed to be laws which tells what to do or not to do when it comes to the same moral and ethics. For some reason such people can still be good scientists though and able to carry out great work as well as many other things as well. Such people are neither capable of believing in neither a God as well as any devils which may be on the loose and lurking around in the streets.

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Message 1308998 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 21:10:35 UTC

For those who do not believe in religion, there are not supposed to be laws which tells what to do or not to do when it comes to the same moral and ethics. For some reason such people still can be good scientists though, as well as many other things as well. Such people are neither capable of believing in neither a God as well as any devils which may be on the loose and lurking around.

People can still choose to live by Christian principles, if they see them as a reasonable way to behave. They no not, however, need to believe in God. That is what upsets the religious adherents.

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Message 1309073 - Posted: 23 Nov 2012, 1:31:37 UTC - in response to Message 1308992.

> For those who do not believe in religion, there are not supposed to be laws which tells what to do or not to do when it comes to the same moral and ethics. For some reason such people can still be good scientists though and able to carry out great work as well as many other things as well. Such people are neither capable of believing in neither a God as well as any devils which may be on the loose and lurking around in the streets.


Not believing in God does not mean an atheist does not believe in right and wrong or morals. I think most atheists still have a sense of right and wrong. I actually think there is a strong need for religion in the world as long as it is not a vehicle for hatred and world dominance.
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Message 1309079 - Posted: 23 Nov 2012, 2:01:23 UTC - in response to Message 1308998.

Christian principles

? Do you mean Cuneiform Law upon which most [western] moral codes are patterned?

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Message 1309086 - Posted: 23 Nov 2012, 2:28:12 UTC - in response to Message 1308992.

If we assume that both good and evil exist, this would be based on an assumption about religion and faith and its existence beyond our own beliefs.

I do not believe you must invoke religion to find ethics or morality. (Morality is a loaded word as to most it implies a god. So I use ethics. My dictionary says both are study of right and wrong or good and evil.) I realize that many who believe in religion can not fathom that ethics could exist without invoking a god to define it. I will point out a rule from a godless person; Never impose on others what you would not choose for yourself - Confucius. Or perhaps another: The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one - Spock. It should be obvious that invoking a god is not a requirement to have ethics.

If you believe that God must exist for there to be right and wrong or good and evil, asking if it exists without man is moot. God could have chosen to never create man.

If you accept that it is man who defines right and wrong or good and evil then it is a question if they exist without man. Perhaps in some ET civilization.

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Message 1309115 - Posted: 23 Nov 2012, 5:54:47 UTC

For me the paired terms good and evil imply some kind of intention judged under a moral or ethics code. So they require an abstract judgement and as I dont know of any other species able to make that kind of abstractions then good and evil wont exist without men.

If the terms were good and bad, then, instead of intention it gives me the idea of convenience or achivement, and while that's something relative, it doesnt imply a judgement: beeing hunted by a predator will be a bad thing for the prey and a good thing for the hunter, no matter if there is man there to judge.

(Disclaimer: English its not my main languaje and then it could be that Im giving wrong/mixed meannings to the words good, bad and evil...but anyway I think that the concepts are still valid)
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Message 1309243 - Posted: 23 Nov 2012, 13:00:55 UTC
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 18:06:43 UTC

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Message 1309418 - Posted: 23 Nov 2012, 19:43:51 UTC

Nah, I think this horse has been sufficiently beat to death.
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Message boards : Politics : Can good and evil exist without man?

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