Can good and evil exist without man?

Message boards : Politics : Can good and evil exist without man?

Author	Message
Gary Charpentier Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 10331 Credit: 5,111,370 RAC: 6,762	Message 1308472 - Posted: 21 Nov 2012, 19:50:29 UTC
	Can good and evil exist without man? Simple question. Is man a requirement for good and evil to exist? ____________
	ID: 1308472 ·

Chris S Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 19 Nov 00 Posts: 22827 Credit: 4,532,087 RAC: 5,706	Message 1308482 - Posted: 21 Nov 2012, 20:02:03 UTC
	Presumably no, because man himself has decided what is termed good or evil. A microbe living on Mars eating it's neighbour, would just do it without labeling it in any one way or the other.
	ID: 1308482 ·

Angela Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 16 Oct 07 Posts: 7573 Credit: 878,818 RAC: 1,585	Message 1308485 - Posted: 21 Nov 2012, 20:03:47 UTC
	LOL! Fan of "Philosophy Talk", Gary? (We are too...) Don't hold back, people... After all, “The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in times of great moral crises maintain their neutrality” (Dante Alighieri)
	ID: 1308485 ·

Chris S Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 19 Nov 00 Posts: 22827 Credit: 4,532,087 RAC: 5,706	Message 1308487 - Posted: 21 Nov 2012, 20:05:45 UTC
	Hi Ang. Gary never fails to entertain us :-)
	ID: 1308487 ·

Gary Charpentier Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 10331 Credit: 5,111,370 RAC: 6,762	Message 1308489 - Posted: 21 Nov 2012, 20:13:27 UTC - in response to Message 1308487.
	Hi Ang. Gary never fails to entertain us :-) They voted me best laugh in high school ... ____________
	ID: 1308489 ·

Guy Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 1183 Credit: 3,475,997 RAC: 624	Message 1308520 - Posted: 21 Nov 2012, 21:57:18 UTC
	There's no such thing as good or evil. At best, they are relative terms used by those who judge. Since old-fashioned white men judge, I guess those terms cannot exist without with out old-fashioned white men.
	ID: 1308520 ·

WinterKnight Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 6827 Credit: 17,167,100 RAC: 25,385	Message 1308549 - Posted: 21 Nov 2012, 23:48:38 UTC
	Needs a definition of good and evil. There are incidents that were regarded as acceptable in the past that would get you locked up for life as a minimum these days and vice versa. And are similar "evil" acts carried out in the animal kingdom, actually evil or a means of survival?
	ID: 1308549 ·

bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 1704 Credit: 13,314,242 RAC: 6,373	Message 1308550 - Posted: 21 Nov 2012, 23:59:25 UTC - in response to Message 1308520.
	There's no such thing as good or evil. At best, they are relative terms used by those who judge. Since old-fashioned white men judge, I guess those terms cannot exist without with out old-fashioned white men. You appear to be suggesting that only "old-fashioned white men" judge. Do you believe others are unable, chose not to, some other reason? What evidence to you have to support your belief? ____________ I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...
	ID: 1308550 ·

Gary Charpentier Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 10331 Credit: 5,111,370 RAC: 6,762	Message 1308554 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 0:03:13 UTC - in response to Message 1308550.
	Bobby, that is getting a little off topic, not that it isn't a worthy subject. ____________
	ID: 1308554 ·

Gary Charpentier Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 10331 Credit: 5,111,370 RAC: 6,762	Message 1308555 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 0:05:15 UTC - in response to Message 1308549.
	Needs a definition of good and evil. There are incidents that were regarded as acceptable in the past that would get you locked up for life as a minimum these days and vice versa. And are similar "evil" acts carried out in the animal kingdom, actually evil or a means of survival? Yes, but is defining good and evil only something man can do? If so, then would you say that they don't exist without man. ____________
	ID: 1308555 ·

bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 1704 Credit: 13,314,242 RAC: 6,373	Message 1308557 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 0:12:23 UTC - in response to Message 1308554.
	Bobby, that is getting a little off topic, not that it isn't a worthy subject. Fair enough. Seems to me that if one were to accept that "good" and "evil" are notions that may arise from an ability to consciously judge, then perhaps Guy had a bit of a point that was on topic. While we know of no other species that has this ability, absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence. It was Guy's restriction of this ability to a specific subset of our species that struck me as odd. ____________ I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...
	ID: 1308557 ·

WinterKnight Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 6827 Credit: 17,167,100 RAC: 25,385	Message 1308563 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 0:30:27 UTC - in response to Message 1308555.
	Needs a definition of good and evil. There are incidents that were regarded as acceptable in the past that would get you locked up for life as a minimum these days and vice versa. And are similar "evil" acts carried out in the animal kingdom, actually evil or a means of survival? Yes, but is defining good and evil only something man can do? If so, then would you say that they don't exist without man. Ok, accept your point, but in the animal kingdom, especially those where there is a Alpha leader does not the Leader make decisions about the behavior of the "guilty".
	ID: 1308563 ·

bobby Send message Joined: 22 Mar 02 Posts: 1704 Credit: 13,314,242 RAC: 6,373	Message 1308568 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 0:37:19 UTC - in response to Message 1308563.
	Needs a definition of good and evil. There are incidents that were regarded as acceptable in the past that would get you locked up for life as a minimum these days and vice versa. And are similar "evil" acts carried out in the animal kingdom, actually evil or a means of survival? Yes, but is defining good and evil only something man can do? If so, then would you say that they don't exist without man. Ok, accept your point, but in the animal kingdom, especially those where there is a Alpha leader does not the Leader make decisions about the behavior of the "guilty". Anthropomorphism? ____________ I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...
	ID: 1308568 ·

WinterKnight Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 18 May 99 Posts: 6827 Credit: 17,167,100 RAC: 25,385	Message 1308570 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 0:47:14 UTC - in response to Message 1308568.
	Needs a definition of good and evil. There are incidents that were regarded as acceptable in the past that would get you locked up for life as a minimum these days and vice versa. And are similar "evil" acts carried out in the animal kingdom, actually evil or a means of survival? Yes, but is defining good and evil only something man can do? If so, then would you say that they don't exist without man. Ok, accept your point, but in the animal kingdom, especially those where there is a Alpha leader does not the Leader make decisions about the behavior of the "guilty". Anthropomorphism? Isn't that more about observing human chacteristics in the animal kingdom, such as humour?
	ID: 1308570 ·

Sarge Send message Joined: 25 Aug 99 Posts: 8871 Credit: 1,233,466 RAC: 1,644	Message 1308572 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 0:51:13 UTC - in response to Message 1308570.
	Needs a definition of good and evil. There are incidents that were regarded as acceptable in the past that would get you locked up for life as a minimum these days and vice versa. And are similar "evil" acts carried out in the animal kingdom, actually evil or a means of survival? Yes, but is defining good and evil only something man can do? If so, then would you say that they don't exist without man. Ok, accept your point, but in the animal kingdom, especially those where there is a Alpha leader does not the Leader make decisions about the behavior of the "guilty". Anthropomorphism? Isn't that more about observing human chacteristics in the animal kingdom, such as humour? And attributing decision making ability to animals is ... ?
	ID: 1308572 ·

Guy Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 1183 Credit: 3,475,997 RAC: 624	Message 1308578 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 1:35:38 UTC
	http://boston.cbslocal.com/2012/11/21/turkey-complaints-on-the-rise-in-brookline/ Are these turkeys evil or is this social justice?
	ID: 1308578 ·

Bob DeWoody Send message Joined: 9 May 10 Posts: 664 Credit: 62,384 RAC: 89	Message 1308597 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 3:29:13 UTC
	Since good and evil, like God are products of man's mind the answer is no. Good and evil need us to exist. ____________ Bob DeWoody
	ID: 1308597 ·

Terror Australis Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 14 Feb 04 Posts: 1420 Credit: 182,256,384 RAC: 161,432	Message 1308746 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 12:44:03 UTC Last modified: 22 Nov 2012, 12:44:44 UTC
	I agree with Bob. To most other species, what we consider as good or evil simply comes down to a matter of survival. When times are good there is room for magnanimity, but when times are bad or when the hunt is on for a mate, it's everyone for themselves. T.A.
	ID: 1308746 ·

Gary Charpentier Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 10331 Credit: 5,111,370 RAC: 6,762	Message 1308955 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 20:04:20 UTC
	Sounds like there is general agreement that good and evil don't exist without man. ____________
	ID: 1308955 ·

Chris S Volunteer tester Send message Joined: 19 Nov 00 Posts: 22827 Credit: 4,532,087 RAC: 5,706	Message 1308972 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 20:32:55 UTC
	Yep!
	ID: 1308972 ·

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Message boards : Politics : Can good and evil exist without man?