Can good and evil exist without man?


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Profile Gary CharpentierProject donor
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Message 1308472 - Posted: 21 Nov 2012, 19:50:29 UTC

Can good and evil exist without man?

Simple question. Is man a requirement for good and evil to exist?


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Message 1308482 - Posted: 21 Nov 2012, 20:02:03 UTC

Presumably no, because man himself has decided what is termed good or evil. A microbe living on Mars eating it's neighbour, would just do it without labeling it in any one way or the other.



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Message 1308485 - Posted: 21 Nov 2012, 20:03:47 UTC

LOL! Fan of "Philosophy Talk", Gary? (We are too...)

Don't hold back, people... After all, “The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in times of great moral crises maintain their neutrality” (Dante Alighieri)

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Message 1308487 - Posted: 21 Nov 2012, 20:05:45 UTC

Hi Ang. Gary never fails to entertain us :-)

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Message 1308489 - Posted: 21 Nov 2012, 20:13:27 UTC - in response to Message 1308487.

Hi Ang. Gary never fails to entertain us :-)

They voted me best laugh in high school ...
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Message 1308520 - Posted: 21 Nov 2012, 21:57:18 UTC
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 18:09:17 UTC

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Message 1308549 - Posted: 21 Nov 2012, 23:48:38 UTC

Needs a definition of good and evil.

There are incidents that were regarded as acceptable in the past that would get you locked up for life as a minimum these days and vice versa.

And are similar "evil" acts carried out in the animal kingdom, actually evil or a means of survival?

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Message 1308550 - Posted: 21 Nov 2012, 23:59:25 UTC - in response to Message 1308520.

There's no such thing as good or evil. At best, they are relative terms used by those who judge. Since old-fashioned white men judge, I guess those terms cannot exist without with out old-fashioned white men.


You appear to be suggesting that only "old-fashioned white men" judge. Do you believe others are unable, chose not to, some other reason? What evidence to you have to support your belief?
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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1308554 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 0:03:13 UTC - in response to Message 1308550.

Bobby, that is getting a little off topic, not that it isn't a worthy subject.

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Message 1308555 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 0:05:15 UTC - in response to Message 1308549.

Needs a definition of good and evil.

There are incidents that were regarded as acceptable in the past that would get you locked up for life as a minimum these days and vice versa.

And are similar "evil" acts carried out in the animal kingdom, actually evil or a means of survival?

Yes, but is defining good and evil only something man can do? If so, then would you say that they don't exist without man.

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Message 1308557 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 0:12:23 UTC - in response to Message 1308554.

Bobby, that is getting a little off topic, not that it isn't a worthy subject.


Fair enough. Seems to me that if one were to accept that "good" and "evil" are notions that may arise from an ability to consciously judge, then perhaps Guy had a bit of a point that was on topic. While we know of no other species that has this ability, absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence. It was Guy's restriction of this ability to a specific subset of our species that struck me as odd.
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I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1308563 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 0:30:27 UTC - in response to Message 1308555.

Needs a definition of good and evil.

There are incidents that were regarded as acceptable in the past that would get you locked up for life as a minimum these days and vice versa.

And are similar "evil" acts carried out in the animal kingdom, actually evil or a means of survival?

Yes, but is defining good and evil only something man can do? If so, then would you say that they don't exist without man.

Ok, accept your point, but in the animal kingdom, especially those where there is a Alpha leader does not the Leader make decisions about the behavior of the "guilty".

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Message 1308568 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 0:37:19 UTC - in response to Message 1308563.

Needs a definition of good and evil.

There are incidents that were regarded as acceptable in the past that would get you locked up for life as a minimum these days and vice versa.

And are similar "evil" acts carried out in the animal kingdom, actually evil or a means of survival?

Yes, but is defining good and evil only something man can do? If so, then would you say that they don't exist without man.

Ok, accept your point, but in the animal kingdom, especially those where there is a Alpha leader does not the Leader make decisions about the behavior of the "guilty".

Anthropomorphism?
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Message 1308570 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 0:47:14 UTC - in response to Message 1308568.

Needs a definition of good and evil.

There are incidents that were regarded as acceptable in the past that would get you locked up for life as a minimum these days and vice versa.

And are similar "evil" acts carried out in the animal kingdom, actually evil or a means of survival?

Yes, but is defining good and evil only something man can do? If so, then would you say that they don't exist without man.

Ok, accept your point, but in the animal kingdom, especially those where there is a Alpha leader does not the Leader make decisions about the behavior of the "guilty".

Anthropomorphism?

Isn't that more about observing human chacteristics in the animal kingdom, such as humour?

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Message 1308572 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 0:51:13 UTC - in response to Message 1308570.

Needs a definition of good and evil.

There are incidents that were regarded as acceptable in the past that would get you locked up for life as a minimum these days and vice versa.

And are similar "evil" acts carried out in the animal kingdom, actually evil or a means of survival?

Yes, but is defining good and evil only something man can do? If so, then would you say that they don't exist without man.

Ok, accept your point, but in the animal kingdom, especially those where there is a Alpha leader does not the Leader make decisions about the behavior of the "guilty".

Anthropomorphism?

Isn't that more about observing human chacteristics in the animal kingdom, such as humour?


And attributing decision making ability to animals is ... ?

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Message 1308578 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 1:35:38 UTC
Last modified: 21 Mar 2014, 18:08:56 UTC

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Message 1308597 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 3:29:13 UTC

Since good and evil, like God are products of man's mind the answer is no. Good and evil need us to exist.
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My motto: Never do today what you can put off until tomorrow as it may not be required. This no longer applies in light of current events.

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Message 1308746 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 12:44:03 UTC
Last modified: 22 Nov 2012, 12:44:44 UTC

I agree with Bob.
To most other species, what we consider as good or evil simply comes down to a matter of survival. When times are good there is room for magnanimity, but when times are bad or when the hunt is on for a mate, it's everyone for themselves.

T.A.

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Message 1308955 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 20:04:20 UTC

Sounds like there is general agreement that good and evil don't exist without man.
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Message 1308972 - Posted: 22 Nov 2012, 20:32:55 UTC

Yep!

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