WASTING MY TIME?

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Profile BigWaveSurfer

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Message 1307702 - Posted: 19 Nov 2012, 12:40:06 UTC - in response to Message 1307627.  

Do let me know when you have all the volunteers lined
up and the date and time they're going to quit.
I'd like to watch.

I think you're chances of that occurring are greater than zero,
but not by much. Think lots of decimal places.


Missing the point much? Not saying that will ever happen, we all know it will not. The point being there would be no project without us. Sure, if things ever got bad enough I'm sure a significant amount of people might move on, but it would have to get pretty bad I imagine for the die-hards to quit.
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Message 1307882 - Posted: 19 Nov 2012, 21:23:05 UTC - in response to Message 1307702.  

Do let me know when you have all the volunteers lined
up and the date and time they're going to quit.
I'd like to watch.

I think you're chances of that occurring are greater than zero,
but not by much. Think lots of decimal places.

Missing the point much? Not saying that will ever happen, we all know it will not. The point being there would be no project without us. Sure, if things ever got bad enough I'm sure a significant amount of people might move on, but it would have to get pretty bad I imagine for the die-hards to quit.

It's a client-server project, so both ends are important. I prefer to think of both ends being dedicated to the search for e.t. so it's all parts of the project against the difficulties in detecting technology at astronomical distances.

Some very rough calculations suggest that a reasonable balance might be cash donations to support the server end around 2 percent of the client elecricity costs. IOW, if external participants turned off crunching for one week in each year and donated money equal to the reduced electricity cost of that week, the basic imbalance might be fixed.
                                                                  Joe
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Clarke J Lipscomb

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Message 1308016 - Posted: 20 Nov 2012, 5:41:42 UTC

Lost work credits,

I have been with Seti @ home for 12 years, do not have fancy computers and over the years have reached an avereage daily credit of 3800 for 4 years straight. Since August, there have been many upload problems. Have others noticed that credit for just acknowledged work units completed verses actually statted by Seti
has dramically dropped? As of 11/19/2012 my daily average is 1400.
I know for fact that I had 162 units completed in the morning and that included 12 Astropules when I checked in in the afternnon updates had completed and was acknowlegded for completing 22. I had 2 further completed units at this time, more astropulses, selected update, units were sent and no acknowelgement of receipt. Seti seems to have their own black hole for which no evalution of work completed or respect done by volenteers.I have just purchased a new computer with lots of goodies and shall not allocate their resources to Seti.
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Message 1308066 - Posted: 20 Nov 2012, 11:05:53 UTC - in response to Message 1308016.  
Last modified: 20 Nov 2012, 11:07:30 UTC

Lost work credits,

I have been with Seti @ home for 12 years, do not have fancy computers and over the years have reached an avereage daily credit of 3800 for 4 years straight. Since August, there have been many upload problems. Have others noticed that credit for just acknowledged work units completed verses actually statted by Seti
has dramically dropped? As of 11/19/2012 my daily average is 1400.
I know for fact that I had 162 units completed in the morning and that included 12 Astropules when I checked in in the afternnon updates had completed and was acknowlegded for completing 22. I had 2 further completed units at this time, more astropulses, selected update, units were sent and no acknowelgement of receipt. Seti seems to have their own black hole for which no evalution of work completed or respect done by volenteers.I have just purchased a new computer with lots of goodies and shall not allocate their resources to Seti.

One of your hosts has no work at all, even completed tasks, check whether No New Tasks has been set,

All tasks for computer 1722399

The other host is running the Buggy Nvidia 296.19 drivers with the sleeping Monitor Bug, so instead of computing on the Cuda device, it falls back to an emulated Cuda device that can't be used, then computes on the CPU instead, Very Very Slowly,
that's why your RAC is lower, upgrade to 301.xx or later drivers, or 290.xx or earlier drivers:

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/result.php?resultid=2710188025

setiathome_CUDA: device 1 is emulation device and should not be used, supports 9999.9999
setiathome_CUDA: CUDA Device 1 specified, checking...
Device cannot be used
SETI@home NOT using CUDA, falling back on host CPU processing
setiathome_enhanced 6.09 Visual Studio/Microsoft C++


NVidia driver problems which cause computation errors

Claggy
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Profile Gary Charpentier Crowdfunding Project Donor*Special Project $75 donorSpecial Project $250 donor
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Message 1309447 - Posted: 23 Nov 2012, 20:41:40 UTC - in response to Message 1306532.  

So, funding has been cut. It has always been apparent, dispite all the volunteers, that Berkeley has never really backed this effort. What a shame.

Berkeley is the landlord! All the funding has to come from private donations, like the Planetary Society, YOU or if they get lucky NSF grants. As government funding has dried up and with the economy in the gutter so has private donations. However YOU could make a difference. Maybe turn a rig off and take the electricity money saved and send it as cash so they can keep your other rigs fed. Think about it.



I'd be all for this, but we don't have a clue where the cash is going.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/sah_budget.php
And if that doesn't make you happy, since SETI@Home is a IRS 501(c)3 their tax return is a public document. If you can't find it online at say Guidestar, order a copy from the IRS.

Additional followup:
http://regents.universityofcalifornia.edu/regmeet/may11/a4attach1.pdf
There are over 100 pages of detail on grants.
I haven't found the 2011 online, but that is my bad search skills I'm sure.

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Message 1309609 - Posted: 24 Nov 2012, 5:31:59 UTC - in response to Message 1306450.  

I started in the pioneer year of 1999, and I am starting to question this effort.

The problem, as I see it, is not the present problem(s), but LACK of communication from the people running this. THERE IS NONE!!!

I hear "Matt is on vacation" and we have to await his return to fix whatever the problem is! This project is over 13 years old, employing thousands of volunteers, utilizing many thousands of computers, large electrical usage, accepting our donations, and it depends on one person? Berkeley should be ashamed.

I am beginning to smell a scam. If it is not, perhaps we should think of this effort as nothing more than a glorified High School Project.

I hope my many years of effort, not to mention money, have not gone to waste.


What you give away for free is only a waste if you think it is. Nobody else but you is allowed to decide this for you.

So DECIDE

If it's not worth it to you to support this project, despite it's warts, uninstall BOINC or adopt a different program.

If it is worth it to you to support this project, stop complaining about warts and understand that this program is not fully funded by any stretch of the imagination.
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Profile Bernie Vine
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Message 1309650 - Posted: 24 Nov 2012, 9:06:04 UTC

One last and I think most important observation. Look at the posts in this and other Threads. You will see many, many, many persons grumbling, who have large credits, and no Green Star next to their names. They have never given a penny to maintain or expand the effort in the lab! Look deeper and you will see that many of these people have spent large amounts of money on their computer(s). We are now seeing the result of the vast increase in the power of our (Volunteer) computers without the same happening in the Lab. To all those without a ‘Green Star’ give a few dollars, it won’t hurt.


Donating can be done anonymously and therefore no "Green Star" also they only last for 12 months so someone who has donated for say 10 years may not have this year.

While it would be nice to see more people donate please do not pick on people with no Green Star. Even if they have large credits.
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Message 1309681 - Posted: 24 Nov 2012, 10:17:13 UTC - in response to Message 1309650.  

One last and I think most important observation. Look at the posts in this and other Threads. You will see many, many, many persons grumbling, who have large credits, and no Green Star next to their names. They have never given a penny to maintain or expand the effort in the lab! Look deeper and you will see that many of these people have spent large amounts of money on their computer(s). We are now seeing the result of the vast increase in the power of our (Volunteer) computers without the same happening in the Lab. To all those without a ‘Green Star’ give a few dollars, it won’t hurt.


Donating can be done anonymously and therefore no "Green Star" also they only last for 12 months so someone who has donated for say 10 years may not have this year.

While it would be nice to see more people donate please do not pick on people with no Green Star. Even if they have large credits.


no one is picking on anyone,having said that those that have huge numbers but have never donated think of it this way, in order to run seti on your computers you have to also pay for the electric bill for the computer to run, donation to help improve the server side is simply another necessary expense if you want to get the most out of your computer investment by limiting down time.
no one will show up at your door to collect but it would be appreciated.

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Message 1309684 - Posted: 24 Nov 2012, 10:19:11 UTC - in response to Message 1309678.  

Murphy was an optimist.
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Message 1309691 - Posted: 24 Nov 2012, 10:42:51 UTC
Last modified: 24 Nov 2012, 11:31:29 UTC

Bare in mind boinc and the programs not using boinc doing volunteer science would likely not be here if seti had not led the way in January of 1999. So at the vary least seti should get sum credit for anything coming out volunteer computing.
As to other credit Arecibo's lack of ability to be pointed made the search for an L.G.M. signal pretty much a shoot in the dark but we believed and so it started now with green bank coming online for seti early next year we will be piggybacking signal from a project that is targeting planetary systems with planet's in the Goldilocks zone and for the first time locking on to targets long enough to do scanning multi frequency searches. making the chances of finding a signal thousand's to million's of times more likely so wasting my time not likely.
And the story is just starting so stay tuned!
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Message 1309693 - Posted: 24 Nov 2012, 10:44:49 UTC - in response to Message 1309691.  

oopps that was just.
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Message 1309713 - Posted: 24 Nov 2012, 11:20:55 UTC - in response to Message 1309693.  

oopps that was just.

You can edit your posts until one hour after you made the post. Unlimited time for when you're a moderator or administrator,

Just use the Edit button that you find on top of your post. No need to go add another post with spelling and grammar corrections.
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Message 1309722 - Posted: 24 Nov 2012, 11:31:58 UTC - in response to Message 1309713.  

THANK'S!!!!!
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Message 1309728 - Posted: 24 Nov 2012, 11:50:41 UTC - in response to Message 1309727.  
Last modified: 24 Nov 2012, 11:55:31 UTC

I think it is helpful to realise that Seti by its very nature is a bit of an esoteric project. By that I mean we don't know if there are any ET's out there, let alone if we might be able to contact them. In contrast other projects searching for cancer cures, malaria cures, clean water, or prime numbers seem to have much more chances of realistically finding a result to their search. But if we don't look we will never find.

But, and there is a big but, being part of Seti is much more than just crunching workunits. Just take a look at the boards, forums, and threads here. Look how vibrant and active they are, you don't get that at any other Boinc project. In fact for many many people, Seti is their social life.

To pick up on Bernies point about green stars. Having one signifies that you have donated withing the past 12 months. Not having one doesn't mean that you never have. Personally I would like to see a system where a green star is for a current donation, and a yellow star means one in the past. People of course may still wish to be anonymous.

As we have said before, if Seti is not for you, then there are other Boinc projects, and we wish you well.


Just a side note.......
The kitties just made a small kibble donation to get their Green Star shining again. I did donate to a GPUUG hard drive fundraiser a bit ago, but that did not get updated in time.
The kitties could not bear seeing their prized star gone dark.

Twinkle twinkle little meow!

EDIT...
Meow, but that was fast.... Took all of 13 minutes after the donation, and the kitties are once again shining brightly!!
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1309747 - Posted: 24 Nov 2012, 12:40:01 UTC - in response to Message 1309744.  
Last modified: 24 Nov 2012, 12:44:16 UTC

Well done Mark and Thankyou. What gets me cross is those people who regularly use the Seti boards to propagate their own particular, usually religious or political, dogma. But, haven't given a dime to the project, and never will do. That to me is just taking the p**s.


Chris...
I have espoused that view in the past, but was told it was politically incorrect.
And then there's caveat that one CAN donate, but for whatever reasons I cannot fathom, does not wish anybody else to know it.

I personally never understood why anybody with the means to connect their computer to this project would not have the pride to donate even $10.00 directly to it and wish everybody else to know that.

I gave up long ago trying to shame anybody into getting their green star. I do however wish that a little more pride in what they believe in would lead more participants to do so.

Fact is......there are probably dang few participating that could really not afford $10.00 a year for this project if they truly cared about it.

And that's all it takes to wear the green star.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1309772 - Posted: 24 Nov 2012, 13:58:51 UTC

The ego and self-importance of some people is surfacing again (maybe it never went under) with the ridicule of people without a green star. It is quite apparent that we each contribute resources to this project, those who are computing continuously. I'm sorry I have to remind you of that. Most of this community's PC's no longer waste energy all night as they did when the project started, with automatic sleep mode, etc. So we choose to contribute a portion of our energy bucks on S@H. Isn't that enough? Many of us go out and update our hardware periodically in order to "keep our stats up". That is a contribution as well, assuming our work is useful and appreciated. Unless I'm missing something, it is at that point the community recedes back and let's the S@H work its way. Pretty much that is where I am now.

There are a number of members who draw more out the project that the typical member, and that is fine. The get invovled with software development, networking gestalt learning, and raw competitive computing. More power to them, but most of the time the satisfaction they derive they derive "for free" and independent of S@H's mission. Obviously, I don't know all/any of you so you can speak for yourself. But, for example, the stat-monsters I read about here are really into themselves when everything is analyzed, not into the stated S@H mission.

Then there is the question of what is S@H's mission and how should the work be evaluated or critiqued. This is a personal question because no one is robbing my meager wealth (by way of big bro's taxes) and paying it out to S@H in a visible way. Putting the question of mission aside (because I think the project has been confused on that score for a while) it seems that when ever one critiques things, the fan boys come out and pounce on the raw meat. Ignoring that consquence, I will merely ask: what has S@H actually accomplished. I don't see much. A paper at a conference once in a long while is not much. They tend to be engineering or PR papers and not fundamental science. Perhaps I missed something but the "science" listed on the homepage is years old and not "fundamental" or results oriented. So, what is going on with all these wu's we compute? Nothing. How does that merit grants or contributions? This project is over a decade old; nothing. I don't mean that we should have found ET. But does anybody really use this work for the next step? If so, they are pretty quiet about it. On the other hand, I have personally contributed to and volunteered at a private food bank; the results are obvious. I donate a ham, and a small family goes out the door with a smile on their face. Probably a good use of my money, I conclude. Turning back to S@H, the most common feedback I get when I look (which admittedly I do less and less frequently) is that the server is down, or the network is choked, or some unix software isn't right, ... . You all get the message, I'm sure.

So, whereas, I really respect those who contribute to the project, I really reject the green star concept as classist and devisive.

Looking ahead, the S@H staff are great to do what they do on the shoe-string they have; don't get me wrong. They deserve our thanks and respect. But at some point, a little introspection should be made and strategic thinking should be applied and courses re-charted.
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Message 1309774 - Posted: 24 Nov 2012, 14:06:40 UTC - in response to Message 1309772.  

The ego and self-importance of some people is surfacing again (maybe it never went under) with the ridicule of people without a green star.

Hmmmmmmm...whom might you be referring to?
Not that it matters much.

I have expressed my true opinions about the green star, what it means to me, and what I wish it meant for all participants on this project.

A show of support, a badge of honor. Not worn by all, their reasons are their own.
I hope complacency is not one of them. It only takes a few minutes to donate a ten spot.

Those that wish to partake in this project without the green star are of course always welcome and appreciated. There will always be more of them than there are of us.

Some of us simply hold a higher regard for those who don't only talk the talk.
"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

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Message 1309799 - Posted: 24 Nov 2012, 15:57:40 UTC - in response to Message 1309785.  

:) Ok, got it, Chris. One may only post personal, and hopefully objective views if one donates cash. And if one crunches and doesn't say anything, that's ok too. I've been confused on that fine point for 10+ years.

And Mark(?), I certainly did not intend to target you. But, in a nutshell, well meaning attempts to coerce folks to have what someone else thinks is appropriate behavior is too centralized for my taste. People should just give to the cause if it moves them and forget about receiving some sort of pat on the back, or in this case green star.
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Message 1309815 - Posted: 24 Nov 2012, 16:22:17 UTC
Last modified: 24 Nov 2012, 16:23:04 UTC

Following a dream, "try to help to find our little green ET" will never be a "waste of time", the thread title is wrong!
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Message 1309816 - Posted: 24 Nov 2012, 16:24:30 UTC
Last modified: 24 Nov 2012, 16:25:45 UTC

:) Ok, got it, Chris. One may only post personal, and hopefully objective views if one donates cash. And if one crunches and doesn't say anything, that's ok too. I've been confused on that fine point for 10+ years.

And Mark(?), I certainly did not intend to target you. But, in a nutshell, well meaning attempts to coerce folks to have what someone else thinks is appropriate behavior is too centralized for my taste. People should just give to the cause if it moves them and forget about receiving some sort of pat on the back, or in this case green star.

I think the efforts by many to crunch continuously and spend money on hardware upgrades is appreciated and certainly is helpful for the project's objectives. Over the last two years, I've done those things to increase my contribution. But, I'm a financial guy and can see from the numbers that the project simply cannot continue at even this reduced level of operations without significant donations from the community. I realize that some can't donate cash due to economic conditions beyound their control, or in some cases currentcy restrictions. I've made additional contributions on their behalf over the past 2 years, both to the project's general purpose funds and to Slavac's hardware drives. I haven't commented on those that won't help keep the project running, but I understand that it irks some people to have the load shifted to them.

Certainly everyone is free to express their view - hope you'll consider mine.
Another Fred
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