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Number crunching :
WASTING MY TIME?
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Claggy Send message Joined: 5 Jul 99 Posts: 4654 Credit: 47,537,079 RAC: 4 |
As I recall they work on several different things in the lab. SETI@Home is only a fraction of what they do. SETI at Berkeley Claggy |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30639 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
There are several SETI projects housed at UC Berkeley. Designate SETI@Home and it goes to this project only. Understood and correct, unless Eric says otherwise. |
Dimitri_C_Patakidis Send message Joined: 10 Oct 99 Posts: 22 Credit: 33,680,021 RAC: 136 |
I hope my many years of effort, not to mention money, have not gone to waste. It's not like we've been using a hand crank on the computers to analyze the work :) |
HAL9000 Send message Joined: 11 Sep 99 Posts: 6534 Credit: 196,805,888 RAC: 57 |
Seti@Home regularly gets these threads questioning the validity of the project. This is usually after an extended period of problems with uploads/downloads. This is nothing new, and will no doubt continue in the future. I, like many people, prefer them to spend their time working on things instead of writing messages to try and make me feel better. Personally I hate when I am working on something out & I get interrupted. Which normally ends up in a "Well there goes the past 5 hours I spent. Time to start over." line or something like it. It could also be compared to getting woken up in the middle of the night & not being able to get back to sleep. SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours Join the [url=http://tinyurl.com/8y46zvu]BP6/VP6 User Group[ |
Horacio Send message Joined: 14 Jan 00 Posts: 536 Credit: 75,967,266 RAC: 0 |
I, like many people, prefer them to spend their time working on things instead of writing messages to try and make me feel better. I agree, but there are ways to improve comunications without wasting the time and efforts of the staff. For example, as there are mods in the forum, there can be also a kind of "comunity managers" working as a part time volunteers which can read whats happening in the forums and any other source of feedback and then they can write a weekly or daily brief report to the staff... and if the staff give to those CMs some insight of what is happening in the lab then they can keep us more or less informed... If the person in this position is really clever about the way he/she tell us what's happening, he/she will be able to make us very happy... ;D In fact, just knowing that there is somebody collecting feedback and reporting it regularly sounds much better than having the (wrong?) feeling that nobody cares about the volunteers that give power to the project... |
Gamboleer Send message Joined: 3 Jun 06 Posts: 29 Credit: 12,391,598 RAC: 0 |
I'd hate to be the guy interviewed on the news after a positive signal is verified saying "yeah, I used to be a part of that, but I got mad and quit". |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30639 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
It seems a lot of people are mad because their computer isn't getting work. Is that a thing to get mad over? Was anyone promised work 24/7/365? No. Was anyone promised as much work as you can crunch? No. Was anyone promised 24/7 uptime? No. Was anyone asked to build a crunch box? No. Was everyone told to join other projects? Yes. Was everyone told only spare CPU time. Yes. Way anyone promised a high RAC. No. Was everyone told the point is to find ET. Yes. Was everyone told the project is fault tolerant. Yes. Was everyone told the software might hiccup. Yes. What are you mad at again? |
juan BFP Send message Joined: 16 Mar 07 Posts: 9786 Credit: 572,710,851 RAC: 3,799 |
Was everyone told the point is to find ET. Yes. Using exactly your words... If the focus is FIND ET, then why try to keep AP-Splitting working and making all this wierd situation worst if is crystal clear the actual configuration can´t handle both project running all full capacity? Nobody ask for 24/7 or zero fault project, just maybe a word or two form the lab, something like "hey we are alive, we know and working on the fix", thats don´t take a minute of time to anyone. Why for ask for "donation" all the time of the world apears? If we need to wait for Matt returns to fix the problem, thats ok, but why don´t make this days less painfuls? Try to keep the focus project working that we could ask for. |
Bernie Vine Send message Joined: 26 May 99 Posts: 9954 Credit: 103,452,613 RAC: 328 |
Well... I started this thread out of frustration, and most of the comments have re-enforced my main frustration. You are of course making two assumptions; 1 - They are aware there is a problem. 2 - There is actually someone in the lab. Remember the outage this week started at 5.23 pacific time. Probably so whoever was there could get it done and then do their other job. |
Richard Haselgrove Send message Joined: 4 Jul 99 Posts: 14650 Credit: 200,643,578 RAC: 874 |
You are of course making two assumptions; 3 - They understand the root cause of the problem, and have an idea how to fix it. (other than by throwing several tens of K$ at it, which they don't have) |
juan BFP Send message Joined: 16 Mar 07 Posts: 9786 Credit: 572,710,851 RAC: 3,799 |
You are of course making two assumptions; Richard Did you see http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=69995&postid=1306767 Another interesting clue for your ACK theory... |
Richard Haselgrove Send message Joined: 4 Jul 99 Posts: 14650 Credit: 200,643,578 RAC: 874 |
Saw it, replying. |
Michael W.F. Miles Send message Joined: 24 Mar 07 Posts: 268 Credit: 34,410,870 RAC: 0 |
I'd hate to be the guy interviewed on the news after a positive signal is verified saying "yeah, I used to be a part of that, but I got mad and quit". Brother Cruncher. If we actually did find ET do you think for one second that the Government will allow us to know about it. We can't even get them to admit that we already have been visited MANY, MANY times Their have been too many civilizations here that don't fit the bill of being NATIVE to this planet. EVERY SINGLE ONE. I for one don't believe any of us are really from this planet. We are all ALIEN http://0.tqn.com/d/urbanlegends/1/0/f/1/Aad4_sm.jpg These are just my conclusions. If we want to find ET then turn the telescopes around and point them at us Michael Miles |
Josef W. Segur Send message Joined: 30 Oct 99 Posts: 4504 Credit: 1,414,761 RAC: 0 |
Was everyone told the point is to find ET. Yes. Astropulse development was funded in part by an NSF grant. Trying for future NSF grants without continuing AP processing would be silly. Stopping AP temporarily is possible, but the general idea of analyzing all fresh data with both SaH and AP algorithms is necessarily the goal. In terms of future funding, it might actually be better to skip the SaH processing and do only AP on some of the data. Joe |
Fred J. Verster Send message Joined: 21 Apr 04 Posts: 3252 Credit: 31,903,643 RAC: 0 |
Was everyone told the point is to find ET. Yes. I agree to this. AstroPulse has a better chance of finding 'ET' or something alike. At least in the same data Einstein has found several Pulsars. NOT what the majority of the crunchers want to hear, probably, but we do have to be realistic and funding is dead on necessary for this project! |
HAL9000 Send message Joined: 11 Sep 99 Posts: 6534 Credit: 196,805,888 RAC: 57 |
Was everyone told the point is to find ET. Yes. As I recall there was some talk about changing the software to download AP tasks & then process them for both AP & MB data. As the raw data is the same, but just broken up differently. It might have just been an idea someone mentioned here instead of something form the guys in the lab. I don't recall. SETI@home classic workunits: 93,865 CPU time: 863,447 hours Join the [url=http://tinyurl.com/8y46zvu]BP6/VP6 User Group[ |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30639 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
Was everyone told the point is to find ET. Yes. That is the splitters job. When they load a "tape" it is sent to both AP and MB splitters and both kinds of work units are generated. |
ivan Send message Joined: 5 Mar 01 Posts: 783 Credit: 348,560,338 RAC: 223 |
As I recall there was some talk about changing the software to download AP tasks & then process them for both AP & MB data. As the raw data is the same, but just broken up differently. It might have just been an idea someone mentioned here instead of something form the guys in the lab. I don't recall. Which raises the question that (IIRC, I wish this forum would include attributions like modern software such as Usenet :-) HAL9000D alluded to -- could AP data be sent to hosts which could then re-process (locally split) them into simultaneous MB WUs? Note I said "could" -- logistics of making sure work was sent to hosts capable of processing both data types would probably be prohibitive. |
Gary Charpentier Send message Joined: 25 Dec 00 Posts: 30639 Credit: 53,134,872 RAC: 32 |
As I recall there was some talk about changing the software to download AP tasks & then process them for both AP & MB data. As the raw data is the same, but just broken up differently. It might have just been an idea someone mentioned here instead of something form the guys in the lab. I don't recall. Could yes. Issue is the raw data is many times larger than the split data, so it would seriously clog the pipe and the pipe is already clogged. |
Josef W. Segur Send message Joined: 30 Oct 99 Posts: 4504 Credit: 1,414,761 RAC: 0 |
There has been some speculation about unburdening the servers by delivering suitably sized chunks of the raw data and have the science application do the splitting. AFAIK that's user speculation only, if the project considered it at all in 2003 when work on Astropulse started they probably decided almost instantly it was neither needed nor practical. Now it is at least close to practical for many fairly new hosts. The general idea would be to send 107.374 seconds of raw data from a channel to the host (a 64MiB + overhead super WU) and have the app split it into 256 frequency subbands (MB WUs) plus split into 8 sequential time sections at full bandwidth (AP WUs). The advantage is that single ~64MiB download replaces ~162MiB of downloads for work split server side. Both the raw data and split data use the same 2 bits to represent a complex data point, the savings come from only sending the data once plus far less overhead in the WU header information. That simple scheme only matches current splitting for the first 107.374 seconds of data from a channel, because the MB splitting has an overlap of ~20%. The second group of 256 MB Wus should start at ~85.77 seconds, but the ninth AP WU starts at 107.374 seconds. Compromise parameters could be chosen and applied to both client-side and server-side splitting, IMO that would be better than needing a separate science database for the dissimilar results. Result reporting plus other BOINC aspects would need a lot of thought, and there would be a lot of new code to implement the change. If we had funded the project well enough that they had a programmer with no high priority work under way, perhaps... Joe |
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