WASTING MY TIME?


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Profile CLYDE
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Message 1306450 - Posted: 15 Nov 2012, 16:22:54 UTC

I started in the pioneer year of 1999, and I am starting to question this effort.

The problem, as I see it, is not the present problem(s), but LACK of communication from the people running this. THERE IS NONE!!!

I hear "Matt is on vacation" and we have to await his return to fix whatever the problem is! This project is over 13 years old, employing thousands of volunteers, utilizing many thousands of computers, large electrical usage, accepting our donations, and it depends on one person? Berkeley should be ashamed.

I am beginning to smell a scam. If it is not, perhaps we should think of this effort as nothing more than a glorified High School Project.

I hope my many years of effort, not to mention money, have not gone to waste.
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Message 1306452 - Posted: 15 Nov 2012, 16:30:14 UTC - in response to Message 1306450.
Last modified: 15 Nov 2012, 16:34:27 UTC

I started in the pioneer year of 1999, and I am starting to question this effort.

The problem, as I see it, is not the present problem(s), but LACK of communication from the people running this. THERE IS NONE!!!

I hear "Matt is on vacation" and we have to await his return to fix whatever the problem is! This project is over 13 years old, employing thousands of volunteers, utilizing many thousands of computers, large electrical usage, accepting our donations, and it depends on one person? Berkeley should be ashamed.

I am beginning to smell a scam. If it is not, perhaps we should think of this effort as nothing more than a glorified High School Project.

I hope my many years of effort, not to mention money, have not gone to waste.

Just to correct you Matt is not on vacation, he is only a part time employee and as I understand his hours have been cut back, so he is pursuing his musical career with this band

Secret Chiefs 3

As funding has been restricted there are few people in the lab able to deal with problems at the moment.

Please remember work is being done an returned with almost no problems from smaller less powerful crunchers like mine. I have had no real problems at all.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/show_host_detail.php?hostid=6795449
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Message 1306453 - Posted: 15 Nov 2012, 16:30:29 UTC

well
i would agree to some extend
i m old here as well
perhaps it simply becomes to complex
finally a pain for the administrators combined with desappointment from the participants
cheers
jpp
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Profile CLYDE
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Message 1306454 - Posted: 15 Nov 2012, 16:35:30 UTC - in response to Message 1306452.
Last modified: 15 Nov 2012, 16:35:52 UTC

I started in the pioneer year of 1999, and I am starting to question this effort.

The problem, as I see it, is not the present problem(s), but LACK of communication from the people running this. THERE IS NONE!!!

I hear "Matt is on vacation" and we have to await his return to fix whatever the problem is! This project is over 13 years old, employing thousands of volunteers, utilizing many thousands of computers, large electrical usage, accepting our donations, and it depends on one person? Berkeley should be ashamed.

I am beginning to smell a scam. If it is not, perhaps we should think of this effort as nothing more than a glorified High School Project.

I hope my many years of effort, not to mention money, have not gone to waste.

Just to correct you Matt is not on vacation, he is only a part time employee and as I understand his hours have been cut back, so he is pursuing his musical career with this band

Secret Chiefs 3

As funding has been restricted there are few people in the lab able to deal with problems at the moment.


Didn't know Matt was part time. I truly wish him good luck in his musical career.

So, funding has been cut. It has always been apparent, dispite all the volunteers, that Berkeley has never really backed this effort. What a shame.
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Message 1306455 - Posted: 15 Nov 2012, 16:39:38 UTC

Just for those of you who may not have seen it Matt posted this in the staff blog on 26 July

It's no real surprise given financial constraints we're operating with a minimal crew here at the lab. In fact, I'm down to working just above half time on average. Lucky for me, though, these hard times coincide with my music career exploding. I've been performing around the US, Canada, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Iceland, England, and France during the past year. And there's more to come. Maybe I should tell you about these gigs on the off chance you're interested. They involve three of my active bands,


Find the whole post HERE
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Message 1306466 - Posted: 15 Nov 2012, 17:09:22 UTC

I feel your frustration as Im sure many on here do also. When I heard of this project I knew this was for me. It still is even with all the crashes, klitches and mayhem. I will continue to crunch right up to the day they pull the power plug at the lab.
Its not BOINC that is the problem, Its an underfunded undermanned project.
That it has lasted this long is a testament to the guys in the lab who wont quit either.

Im really suprised that Matt hasnt quit outright after getting his part time hours cut more. That man could get a full time job anywhere doing system magic.

Only you can say when you have had enough. I wish you well and hope that someday you return to the community. After all this is where ive met some great people from all over the world.
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Message 1306469 - Posted: 15 Nov 2012, 17:20:45 UTC

Couldn`t agree more Bernie and Jim.
Its very sad though.

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Message 1306477 - Posted: 15 Nov 2012, 17:45:32 UTC
Last modified: 15 Nov 2012, 17:49:28 UTC

OK - OK

I've had my rant, and got it out of my system.

I'm still in it for the long-run and waiting for them to fix the damn thing!

Sorry for the rant.
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Message 1306479 - Posted: 15 Nov 2012, 17:48:47 UTC
Last modified: 15 Nov 2012, 17:53:12 UTC

CLYDE has a valid point. Out of courtesy would it kill these guys to simply post an update on a daily basis? What would it take, 30 seconds?

The newest poster on this thread has been volunteering his computer time for 11 years. Everyone else, myself included, has been here over 13 years. Don't we deserve a little respect in the form of reasonable communication?
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Message 1306482 - Posted: 15 Nov 2012, 17:55:12 UTC

Just a reminder.
We are volunteers.
We are here to help the project not vice versa.
Not that i wouldn`t like it would work smooth also.

With lack of man power its all about priorities.
We just need a millionaire donating.
See my pledge drive.

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Message 1306486 - Posted: 15 Nov 2012, 18:03:32 UTC - in response to Message 1306482.

Mike, if I had volunteers contributing to my efforts, I would treat them as a valuable resource and not ignore them and take them for granted. It is simply the courteous thing to do.
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Message 1306492 - Posted: 15 Nov 2012, 18:22:49 UTC - in response to Message 1306486.

Mike, if I had volunteers contributing to my efforts, I would treat them as a valuable resource and not ignore them and take them for granted. It is simply the courteous thing to do.


Whilst I have no inside knowledge, I believe that Jeff may in fact be alone in the lab and just does not have the time to read the forums and respond.

I have been saying for a while that staff funding is the issue here, but as Eric posted.

We would love to see an endowment capable of funding the whole program or even providing a single income. We have had term endowments in the past in the $10K-$30K range with 2 or 3 year terms to pay for operations of specific projects. To pay for a person is another scale entirely... a just out of school junior programmer with salary and benefits really does run close to $100K even in the current job market.

Pulling out my trusty slide rule you wanted to pay for that for 5 years, with a 2% annual COLA and no promotions (which is unreasonable, a new programmer would get a promotion every 2 years or get fired) that's $520K, the endowment to achieve that would need to about about $480K (assuming it could earn 4% annually)

A perpetual endowment usually has different assumptions and can achieve higher growth, but we could assume the instantaneous payout of $100K is equal to a 4% growth and which means it would need to be at least $2.5M. And to run the whole project in perpetuity $10M-$15M would be the target vicinity.

Sounds like a lot until you realize that people spent $4B on the last election. Anyone know any multi-million dollar superPAC contributors? Of course people who contribute millions of dollars to superPACs probably expect a return on their investment. (In case I didn't the sarcasm obvious enough, I think $2.5M is a hell of a lot of money.)


It is really not possible for us to help.
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Message 1306496 - Posted: 15 Nov 2012, 18:25:36 UTC

I have been donating my computer to SETI since '99 and I feel some of the frustration felt by other participants, and I continue to think that SET is a worthwhile project. I have tried to educate myself with some of the science involving the universe to understand SETI's mission and challenges. I wish the SETI search was as simple as some of the other distributed computing projects that have a closer endgame. I wish that it wasn't so darn time and money consuming to search a bigger portion of the sky.

I think the most frustrating thing is that there just so much out there, so much sky. To look at a few pieces of sky for 13 years might be a good science.. but how long should we look before moving on? I defer to those scientists who have the master plan. I understand There is a lot of competition for resources such as money and telescope time, so due to the resources, each the SETI search must be well planned and executed.

In the spirit of the project, I think the SETI staff could communicate a bit more by updating the participants with signal candidates, what the next steps are, etc. We must have learned something in 13 years, I hope?

I will summarize with Jill Tarter's TED speech, where she likens the SETI search as taking a glass to the ocean, filling it with ocean water, and proclaiming that we know what's out there in the vast ocean. I believe that this mission is an important one.. just not for those seeking a quick outcome--because all candidates must be submitted to a good scientific process.

I will continue to support SETI, but will also give some of my computing resources that will help others here on earth in a more near-term project.

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Message 1306501 - Posted: 15 Nov 2012, 18:42:18 UTC - in response to Message 1306454.

So, funding has been cut. It has always been apparent, dispite all the volunteers, that Berkeley has never really backed this effort. What a shame.

Berkeley is the landlord! All the funding has to come from private donations, like the Planetary Society, YOU or if they get lucky NSF grants. As government funding has dried up and with the economy in the gutter so has private donations. However YOU could make a difference. Maybe turn a rig off and take the electricity money saved and send it as cash so they can keep your other rigs fed. Think about it.


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Message 1306519 - Posted: 15 Nov 2012, 19:09:53 UTC - in response to Message 1306501.

So, funding has been cut. It has always been apparent, dispite all the volunteers, that Berkeley has never really backed this effort. What a shame.

Berkeley is the landlord! All the funding has to come from private donations, like the Planetary Society, YOU or if they get lucky NSF grants. As government funding has dried up and with the economy in the gutter so has private donations. However YOU could make a difference. Maybe turn a rig off and take the electricity money saved and send it as cash so they can keep your other rigs fed. Think about it.



I'd be all for this, but we don't have a clue where the cash is going.

We know that there's something going-on in WV and that money's coming from somewhere to make it happen. We don't really know how much money or anything else.

We do know that donations to SETI@Home are now apparently donations to "SETI Efforts at Berkeley" and don't necessarily have anything to do with our project (look at how some donated hardware is being deployed if you need proof).

So, if we sent $100k to SETI@Home we would never know if it went to airline tickets to send a large group to a week-long conference in Geneva concerning data at Green Bank that we'll never see, or if it would go to help fund Matt's salary.

What we do know is that *this* project is starving.

We don't know if the budget was set such that this project will starve no matter how much money we send.

Again, it's a matter of a lack of communication. We just don't know. We know there are things we don't know, but there may be a lot of things that we don't know that we don't know.

Nobody's saying.

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Message 1306531 - Posted: 15 Nov 2012, 19:20:58 UTC

I find it disheartening that people allow
themselves to get so worked up over trivial things.

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Message 1306532 - Posted: 15 Nov 2012, 19:22:01 UTC - in response to Message 1306519.

So, funding has been cut. It has always been apparent, dispite all the volunteers, that Berkeley has never really backed this effort. What a shame.

Berkeley is the landlord! All the funding has to come from private donations, like the Planetary Society, YOU or if they get lucky NSF grants. As government funding has dried up and with the economy in the gutter so has private donations. However YOU could make a difference. Maybe turn a rig off and take the electricity money saved and send it as cash so they can keep your other rigs fed. Think about it.



I'd be all for this, but we don't have a clue where the cash is going.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/sah_budget.php
And if that doesn't make you happy, since SETI@Home is a IRS 501(c)3 their tax return is a public document. If you can't find it online at say Guidestar, order a copy from the IRS.

We know that there's something going-on in WV and that money's coming from somewhere to make it happen. We don't really know how much money or anything else.

We do know that donations to SETI@Home are now apparently donations to "SETI Efforts at Berkeley" and don't necessarily have anything to do with our project (look at how some donated hardware is being deployed if you need proof).

There are several SETI projects housed at UC Berkeley. Designate SETI@Home and it goes to this project only.

So, if we sent $100k to SETI@Home we would never know if it went to airline tickets to send a large group to a week-long conference in Geneva concerning data at Green Bank that we'll never see, or if it would go to help fund Matt's salary.

What we do know is that *this* project is starving.

Brilliant Sherlock.

We don't know if the budget was set such that this project will starve no matter how much money we send.

Again, it's a matter of a lack of communication. We just don't know. We know there are things we don't know, but there may be a lot of things that we don't know that we don't know.

Nobody's saying.


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Message 1306572 - Posted: 15 Nov 2012, 20:51:46 UTC - in response to Message 1306532.



Brilliant Sherlock.



That was unnecessary. We're on the same side, here. You can trust your car to the man who wears a green star...



There are several SETI projects housed at UC Berkeley. Designate SETI@Home and it goes to this project only.



If you say-so.

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Message 1306576 - Posted: 15 Nov 2012, 21:11:58 UTC - in response to Message 1306572.

There are several SETI projects housed at UC Berkeley. Designate SETI@Home and it goes to this project only.

If you say-so.

Who would you believe? The Regents of the University of California? IRS?

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Message 1306579 - Posted: 15 Nov 2012, 21:23:02 UTC - in response to Message 1306576.

well
french though ; is it really only about money ?
stability is probably something we can achieve and i m unsure root cause of the various incident we face;from time to time
perhaps some have better visibility
if indeed , those outages always have same root cause; that is something workable
if not,
eventually is it only matter of spending time/hours/tech on that ?
jpp
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