Spain & Gibraltar

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Message 1305071 - Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 21:08:59 UTC - in response to Message 1305066.  

OK, if we're going that route: -

How about giving Alaska back to it's native inhabitants?

Can't access your Libray of Congress website as its down for holiday weekend maintainance.

Glad you brought that up. Brought it from the Russians, if they had title. Aren't they also another European Colonial power, with all that blue blood interbreeding? Now Afghanistan, just the USA cleaning up another European colonial mess.

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Message 1305074 - Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 21:12:12 UTC - in response to Message 1305067.  

I am sure Mexico would take umbrage with that.

maybe we can make Mexico a deal. They can have Texas and Arizona, We keep New Mexico and California. Oh and just to even it out we take Acapulco.

Arizona except for the Gadsden Purchase. Mexico sold that fair and square. The rest was spoils of war. Then we stole the land grants from the original Spanish owners.


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Message 1305075 - Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 21:12:34 UTC - in response to Message 1305071.  
Last modified: 11 Nov 2012, 21:15:43 UTC

OK, if we're going that route: -

How about giving Alaska back to it's native inhabitants?

Can't access your Libray of Congress website as its down for holiday weekend maintainance.

Glad you brought that up. Brought it from the Russians, if they had title. Aren't they also another European Colonial power, with all that blue blood interbreeding? Now Afghanistan, just the USA cleaning up another European colonial mess.


So how about returning it to its natives?

Edit: check your history books, Afghanistan was never colonised. Britain & Russia tried twice & lost, still not learning from past mistakes, now its your turn. The 80's should have taught you that lesson, but you chose to ignore it.
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Message 1305079 - Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 21:18:04 UTC - in response to Message 1305075.  

OK, if we're going that route: -

How about giving Alaska back to it's native inhabitants?

Can't access your Libray of Congress website as its down for holiday weekend maintainance.

Glad you brought that up. Brought it from the Russians, if they had title. Aren't they also another European Colonial power, with all that blue blood interbreeding? Now Afghanistan, just the USA cleaning up another European colonial mess.


But according to you, it wasn't theirs to sell, so how about returning it to the natives?

How about the original 13. Sure why not. We can always go against the seller and extract damages from them for their fraud. Ready to pay?



SCOTUS is likely going to have to deal with several first nations land cases in the coming decades as these work their way through the courts. It is going to be interesting to see how they get resolved.

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Message 1305081 - Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 21:22:01 UTC - in response to Message 1305075.  

Edit: check your history books, Afghanistan was never colonised. Britain & Russia tried twice & lost,

Leaving a colonial mess that needs cleaning up ...
still not learning from past mistakes, now its your turn. The 80's should have taught you that lesson, but you chose to ignore it.

What makes you think we ever had any intention of staying? Just because that is the thought process of a Brut, it has to be the thought process of others?

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Message 1305082 - Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 21:22:20 UTC - in response to Message 1305079.  


How about the original 13. Sure why not. We can always go against the seller and extract damages from them for their fraud. Ready to pay?

SCOTUS is likely going to have to deal with several first nations land cases in the coming decades as these work their way through the courts. It is going to be interesting to see how they get resolved.


That'll be one way to wipe out your deficit...reduce the States from 50 to 13....interesting concept.
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Message 1305085 - Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 21:27:03 UTC

The way you continue with regards European colonisation, one would think that this upsets you.....

"The Mayflower has a famous place in American history as a symbol of early European colonisation of the future United States."

One can only wonder where America would be if Europeans hadn't colonised it!
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Message 1305094 - Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 21:36:45 UTC - in response to Message 1305085.  

One can only wonder where America would be if Europeans hadn't colonised it!

Bountiful harvests for all and absorbing enough CO2 in its forests to counter global warming.

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Message 1305097 - Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 21:38:41 UTC - in response to Message 1305094.  

One can only wonder where America would be if Europeans hadn't colonised it!

Bountiful harvests for all and absorbing enough CO2 in its forests to counter global warming.


hahaha, global warming wouldn't be on the agenda......
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Message 1305098 - Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 21:40:16 UTC - in response to Message 1305082.  


How about the original 13. Sure why not. We can always go against the seller and extract damages from them for their fraud. Ready to pay?

SCOTUS is likely going to have to deal with several first nations land cases in the coming decades as these work their way through the courts. It is going to be interesting to see how they get resolved.


That'll be one way to wipe out your deficit...reduce the States from 50 to 13....interesting concept.

No, 50 to zero. We would have to collect from the colonizers of the first 13, seem to remember that being the red coats, I'm sure that would wipe the debt out. Of course if they couldn't pay up we would have to put them in chains until they did.


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Message 1305101 - Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 21:43:58 UTC - in response to Message 1305100.  

As the OP here this has rather gone a bit of topic. HOWEVER I am happy to go along with it, provided at some point we could get back to the Gibraltar issue. Why do Americans see our claims to Gibraltar as Colonialism. That was in the Victorian era, not 300 years ago!



Sorry Chris, I took that from your OP....1713 to now is 299, so what's a year.
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Message 1305109 - Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 21:53:39 UTC - in response to Message 1305106.  

You were too quick, I changed my post. Don't be too hasty in the reply! :-)


LOL. I think that it's not just Spain/Gibraltar that's the issue. I think its down to all.

Take Spain as an example: - suffering severely due to the financial crisis & with Gibraltar being a 1st class tourist destination, they want it back to take the pressure off them. The same applies to Argentina & the Falklands.

Then we get those who castigate European colonisation: - they may be correct in their views, but & its a big but, the ones with those views are of European ancestry: -

So it seems to me that they want their bread buttered on both sides.

The answer? Very simple really: - move on & help making they're part of the world a better place.
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Message 1305113 - Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 22:07:23 UTC - in response to Message 1305100.  

As the OP here this has rather gone a bit of topic. HOWEVER I am happy to go along with it, provided at some point we could get back to the Gibraltar issue. Why do Americans see our claims to Gibraltar as Colonialism?

Wasn't in obtained to militarily secure your trade routes for your colonization efforts in the northern Mediterranean area? After all Spain and especially Portugal got much better places to get human resource units to sell to your colonies, depriving you of this income source. Of course you did go farther south in Africa as well. Perhaps a convenient fuel stop as it were for those exploits and further into the Indian Ocean. I doubt it had anything to do with a worry that Spain might close your access to the Mediterranean, after all you didn't try and blockade the Spanish or anything like that so there wouldn't have been any reason to think of a tit for tat situation.

In any case, spoils of war. What are we doing with Nazi spoils of war like paintings stolen from the Jews? I'm sure that some persons chose not to stay in Gibraltar while the fight was on, or were forced out. Were they properly compensated? Or was their property, land, confiscated just as the Nazi's did with the property of Jews? Do you think their descendants have claim?

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Message 1305115 - Posted: 11 Nov 2012, 22:13:57 UTC - in response to Message 1305113.  

In that case, how about you giving Germany, not only the credit, but compensate for the transportation of German Scientists in 1945 - the very same scientists who got you into space!

Wernher Von Braun
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Message 1305156 - Posted: 12 Nov 2012, 0:10:41 UTC - in response to Message 1305013.  

Seems like we are forever cleaning up the messes created by colonialism.


Really, so answer the question you were asked earlier....

What are you doing in Afghanistan?


Doing the best we can to help that nation ensure a group (Taliban) that gave aid and support to a bunch of murderers (Al Qaeda) does not regain a foothold. In case you hadn't heard, it has already been announced that the US will end combat operations there in 2014.


Hahahaha, love it. 2014 is not an answer.......

...tell me, who actually funded & armed the taliban in the 1st place?


2014 may not be an answer you like, that does not mean it's not an answer.

I suppose you're referring to US support of Afghan Mujahideen, the folks that fought off a Soviet invasion. The Taliban may have risen from that group 14 or so years later, though there was certainly animosity between a leader of the Mujahadeen and the Taliban. Are you sure the facts align with your narrative?
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that ...

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Message 1305162 - Posted: 12 Nov 2012, 0:19:16 UTC - in response to Message 1305115.  

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Message 1305174 - Posted: 12 Nov 2012, 1:14:13 UTC - in response to Message 1305156.  

Seems like we are forever cleaning up the messes created by colonialism.


Really, so answer the question you were asked earlier....

What are you doing in Afghanistan?


Doing the best we can to help that nation ensure a group (Taliban) that gave aid and support to a bunch of murderers (Al Qaeda) does not regain a foothold. In case you hadn't heard, it has already been announced that the US will end combat operations there in 2014.


Hahahaha, love it. 2014 is not an answer.......

...tell me, who actually funded & armed the taliban in the 1st place?


2014 may not be an answer you like, that does not mean it's not an answer.

I suppose you're referring to US support of Afghan Mujahideen, the folks that fought off a Soviet invasion. The Taliban may have risen from that group 14 or so years later, though there was certainly animosity between a leader of the Mujahadeen and the Taliban. Are you sure the facts align with your narrative?



Quite sure, as the question still hasn't been answered.
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Message 1305175 - Posted: 12 Nov 2012, 1:15:50 UTC - in response to Message 1305162.  

Marshall Plan


"For example, Alberto Alesina and Beatrice Weder, summing up economic literature on foreign aid and corruption, find that aid is primarily used wastefully and self-servingly by government officials, and ends up increasing governmental corruption. This policy of promoting corrupt government is then attributed back to the initial impetus of the Marshall Plan."

Oh dear.
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Message 1305185 - Posted: 12 Nov 2012, 1:29:12 UTC - in response to Message 1305174.  

Quite sure, as the question still hasn't been answered.

Can't help that you don't like the answer. Hope the sand doesn't get into your eye.

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Message boards : Politics : Spain & Gibraltar


 
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